Oh, so this is why Murton is successful........

[gus_dog]

Changing subjects: why are you guys trying to put Dubois and Murton in the same class?

 

Looking for consistentcy in Baker's 'system'?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Another ridiculous quote from Dusty, " Murton isn't the typical lead-off guy. He doesn't have enough speed." I'll place my bet on Murton beating Perez in the 100 m dash. I'd also take Murton over Eckstein in the 100 m dash. Nevertheless, it's about getting on base.

 

Changing subjects: why are you guys trying to put Dubois and Murton in the same class? You shouldn't . Dubois is 27 years old and played many, many years in the minors. Why some of you are still considering him a "kid" is somewhat hilarious. Murton has/had more upside than Dubois. I don't understand why Dubois' name is even being brought up. I don't even think he's in the same class as Murton.

 

Dubois has played all this year at 26, and spent 4 years(not exactly an eternity) in the minor leagues. The comparisons are there, Dusty handled their successes nearly the exact same way. Fortunately, Murton hasn't faltered yet so we haven't seen what he'll do if that happens.

[JC]

Another ridiculous quote from Dusty, " Murton isn't the typical lead-off guy. He doesn't have enough speed." I'll place my bet on Murton beating Perez in the 100 m dash. I'd also take Murton over Eckstein in the 100 m dash. Nevertheless, it's about getting on base.

 

Changing subjects: why are you guys trying to put Dubois and Murton in the same class? You shouldn't . Dubois is 27 years old and played many, many years in the minors. Why some of you are still considering him a "kid" is somewhat hilarious. Murton has/had more upside than Dubois. I don't understand why Dubois' name is even being brought up. I don't even think he's in the same class as Murton.

 

Dubois has played all this year at 26, and spent 4 years(not exactly an eternity) in the minor leagues. The comparisons are there, Dusty handled their successes nearly the exact same way. Fortunately, Murton hasn't faltered yet so we haven't seen what he'll do if that happens.

 

In the context of the main debate of this thread, regarding Dusty's handling of players who weren't established positional players in the majors, I think Dubois' situation is very relevant.

[dalgreen]

Another ridiculous quote from Dusty, " Murton isn't the typical lead-off guy. He doesn't have enough speed." I'll place my bet on Murton beating Perez in the 100 m dash. I'd also take Murton over Eckstein in the 100 m dash. Nevertheless, it's about getting on base.

 

Changing subjects: why are you guys trying to put Dubois and Murton in the same class? You shouldn't . Dubois is 27 years old and played many, many years in the minors. Why some of you are still considering him a "kid" is somewhat hilarious. Murton has/had more upside than Dubois. I don't understand why Dubois' name is even being brought up. I don't even think he's in the same class as Murton.

 

Dubois has played all this year at 26, and spent 4 years(not exactly an eternity) in the minor leagues. The comparisons are there, Dusty handled their successes nearly the exact same way. Fortunately, Murton hasn't faltered yet so we haven't seen what he'll do if that happens.

 

In baseball terms, it is an eternity. There is a reason why Dubois didn't see his first real big league action until 26, sorry for the misinformation I provided stating he's 27. Maybe Murton hasn't faltered because he's just better than Dubois. I think some just had too high of expectations for Dubois. I still think Murton is in a different class than Dubois.

[gus_dog]

I still think Murton is in a different class than Dubois.

 

I agree with that.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Another ridiculous quote from Dusty, " Murton isn't the typical lead-off guy. He doesn't have enough speed." I'll place my bet on Murton beating Perez in the 100 m dash. I'd also take Murton over Eckstein in the 100 m dash. Nevertheless, it's about getting on base.

 

Changing subjects: why are you guys trying to put Dubois and Murton in the same class? You shouldn't . Dubois is 27 years old and played many, many years in the minors. Why some of you are still considering him a "kid" is somewhat hilarious. Murton has/had more upside than Dubois. I don't understand why Dubois' name is even being brought up. I don't even think he's in the same class as Murton.

 

Dubois has played all this year at 26, and spent 4 years(not exactly an eternity) in the minor leagues. The comparisons are there, Dusty handled their successes nearly the exact same way. Fortunately, Murton hasn't faltered yet so we haven't seen what he'll do if that happens.

 

In baseball terms, it is an eternity. There is a reason why Dubois didn't see his first real big league action until 26, sorry for the misinformation I provided stating he's 27. Maybe Murton hasn't faltered because he's just better than Dubois. I think some just had too high of expectations for Dubois. I still think Murton is in a different class than Dubois.

 

The expectations are pretty much irrelevant. I'm not trying to make a point that Dubois and Murton would have similar results, I'm trying to show how the two rookie OFs were treated, and how Dusty pats himself on the back for their success(despite hindering them), yet doesn't take any blame for their failures.

[UK1679666180]

In baseball terms, it is an eternity. There is a reason why Dubois didn't see his first real big league action until 26, sorry for the misinformation I provided stating he's 27. Maybe Murton hasn't faltered because he's just better than Dubois. I think some just had too high of expectations for Dubois. I still think Murton is in a different class than Dubois.

 

Injuries and two corner OF'ers by the name of Sosa and Alou. Those are the reasons why it took Dubois so long to get to the majors compared to Murton. If the Cubs had some stability at LF-RF like they did w/Sosa and Alou, you might've seen a jump from AA to the majors.

[dalgreen]

Another ridiculous quote from Dusty, " Murton isn't the typical lead-off guy. He doesn't have enough speed." I'll place my bet on Murton beating Perez in the 100 m dash. I'd also take Murton over Eckstein in the 100 m dash. Nevertheless, it's about getting on base.

 

Changing subjects: why are you guys trying to put Dubois and Murton in the same class? You shouldn't . Dubois is 27 years old and played many, many years in the minors. Why some of you are still considering him a "kid" is somewhat hilarious. Murton has/had more upside than Dubois. I don't understand why Dubois' name is even being brought up. I don't even think he's in the same class as Murton.

 

Dubois has played all this year at 26, and spent 4 years(not exactly an eternity) in the minor leagues. The comparisons are there, Dusty handled their successes nearly the exact same way. Fortunately, Murton hasn't faltered yet so we haven't seen what he'll do if that happens.

 

In baseball terms, it is an eternity. There is a reason why Dubois didn't see his first real big league action until 26, sorry for the misinformation I provided stating he's 27. Maybe Murton hasn't faltered because he's just better than Dubois. I think some just had too high of expectations for Dubois. I still think Murton is in a different class than Dubois.

 

The expectations are pretty much irrelevant. I'm not trying to make a point that Dubois and Murton would have similar results, I'm trying to show how the two rookie OFs were treated, and how Dusty pats himself on the back for their success(despite hindering them), yet doesn't take any blame for their failures.

 

The expetations are irrelevant. I guess I don't see the need for even bringing up Dubois as a comparison. Can't we just be angry at the way Murton has been treated without comparing his treatment to a lesser player?

[CubfaninCA]

Another ridiculous quote from Dusty, " Murton isn't the typical lead-off guy. He doesn't have enough speed." I'll place my bet on Murton beating Perez in the 100 m dash. I'd also take Murton over Eckstein in the 100 m dash. Nevertheless, it's about getting on base.

 

Changing subjects: why are you guys trying to put Dubois and Murton in the same class? You shouldn't . Dubois is 27 years old and played many, many years in the minors. Why some of you are still considering him a "kid" is somewhat hilarious. Murton has/had more upside than Dubois. I don't understand why Dubois' name is even being brought up. I don't even think he's in the same class as Murton.

 

Dubois has played all this year at 26, and spent 4 years(not exactly an eternity) in the minor leagues. The comparisons are there, Dusty handled their successes nearly the exact same way. Fortunately, Murton hasn't faltered yet so we haven't seen what he'll do if that happens.

 

In baseball terms, it is an eternity. There is a reason why Dubois didn't see his first real big league action until 26, sorry for the misinformation I provided stating he's 27. Maybe Murton hasn't faltered because he's just better than Dubois. I think some just had too high of expectations for Dubois. I still think Murton is in a different class than Dubois.

 

Ding, ding, ding. Correct answer. Murton >> DuBois. DuBois had a hot April then cooled off considerably whereas Murton keeps producing.

 

It's interesting how some totally disregard how Baker has stuck w/ Corey Patterson through thick and thin. He's younger than DuBois.

[dalgreen]

Another ridiculous quote from Dusty, " Murton isn't the typical lead-off guy. He doesn't have enough speed." I'll place my bet on Murton beating Perez in the 100 m dash. I'd also take Murton over Eckstein in the 100 m dash. Nevertheless, it's about getting on base.

 

Changing subjects: why are you guys trying to put Dubois and Murton in the same class? You shouldn't . Dubois is 27 years old and played many, many years in the minors. Why some of you are still considering him a "kid" is somewhat hilarious. Murton has/had more upside than Dubois. I don't understand why Dubois' name is even being brought up. I don't even think he's in the same class as Murton.

 

Dubois has played all this year at 26, and spent 4 years(not exactly an eternity) in the minor leagues. The comparisons are there, Dusty handled their successes nearly the exact same way. Fortunately, Murton hasn't faltered yet so we haven't seen what he'll do if that happens.

 

In baseball terms, it is an eternity. There is a reason why Dubois didn't see his first real big league action until 26, sorry for the misinformation I provided stating he's 27. Maybe Murton hasn't faltered because he's just better than Dubois. I think some just had too high of expectations for Dubois. I still think Murton is in a different class than Dubois.

 

Ding, ding, ding. Correct answer. Murton >> DuBois. DuBois had a hot April then cooled off considerably whereas Murton keeps producing.

 

It's interesting how some totally disregard how Baker has stuck w/ Corey Patterson through thick and thin. He's younger than DuBois.

 

You better duck before you're hit with the flying reason of, "Patterson was already an established position player. So he doesn't count."

[CubfaninCA]

Another ridiculous quote from Dusty, " Murton isn't the typical lead-off guy. He doesn't have enough speed." I'll place my bet on Murton beating Perez in the 100 m dash. I'd also take Murton over Eckstein in the 100 m dash. Nevertheless, it's about getting on base.

 

Changing subjects: why are you guys trying to put Dubois and Murton in the same class? You shouldn't . Dubois is 27 years old and played many, many years in the minors. Why some of you are still considering him a "kid" is somewhat hilarious. Murton has/had more upside than Dubois. I don't understand why Dubois' name is even being brought up. I don't even think he's in the same class as Murton.

 

Dubois has played all this year at 26, and spent 4 years(not exactly an eternity) in the minor leagues. The comparisons are there, Dusty handled their successes nearly the exact same way. Fortunately, Murton hasn't faltered yet so we haven't seen what he'll do if that happens.

 

In baseball terms, it is an eternity. There is a reason why Dubois didn't see his first real big league action until 26, sorry for the misinformation I provided stating he's 27. Maybe Murton hasn't faltered because he's just better than Dubois. I think some just had too high of expectations for Dubois. I still think Murton is in a different class than Dubois.

 

The expectations are pretty much irrelevant. I'm not trying to make a point that Dubois and Murton would have similar results, I'm trying to show how the two rookie OFs were treated, and how Dusty pats himself on the back for their success(despite hindering them), yet doesn't take any blame for their failures.

 

Maybe it's not his fault. Maybe DuBois just isn't that good. The same arguments were made for Choi and 2 years later he's in LA and still struggling. Choi was a better prospect than DuBois too.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Another ridiculous quote from Dusty, " Murton isn't the typical lead-off guy. He doesn't have enough speed." I'll place my bet on Murton beating Perez in the 100 m dash. I'd also take Murton over Eckstein in the 100 m dash. Nevertheless, it's about getting on base.

 

Changing subjects: why are you guys trying to put Dubois and Murton in the same class? You shouldn't . Dubois is 27 years old and played many, many years in the minors. Why some of you are still considering him a "kid" is somewhat hilarious. Murton has/had more upside than Dubois. I don't understand why Dubois' name is even being brought up. I don't even think he's in the same class as Murton.

 

Dubois has played all this year at 26, and spent 4 years(not exactly an eternity) in the minor leagues. The comparisons are there, Dusty handled their successes nearly the exact same way. Fortunately, Murton hasn't faltered yet so we haven't seen what he'll do if that happens.

 

In baseball terms, it is an eternity. There is a reason why Dubois didn't see his first real big league action until 26, sorry for the misinformation I provided stating he's 27. Maybe Murton hasn't faltered because he's just better than Dubois. I think some just had too high of expectations for Dubois. I still think Murton is in a different class than Dubois.

 

The expectations are pretty much irrelevant. I'm not trying to make a point that Dubois and Murton would have similar results, I'm trying to show how the two rookie OFs were treated, and how Dusty pats himself on the back for their success(despite hindering them), yet doesn't take any blame for their failures.

 

Maybe it's not his fault. Maybe DuBois just isn't that good. The same arguments were made for Choi and 2 years later he's in LA and still struggling. Choi was a better prospect than DuBois too.

 

You're missing the point entirely.

 

I know I wouldn't want a system where I don't get blamed for failure, and get credit for success.

 

There's nothing that disproves this circular logic that's been proved several times. Dubois had early success, Dusty had praise but always some criticisms that somehow justified him not playing. When Dubois finally got to play, Dusty said that this was the plan all along, and that he's been trying to put him in the best situations to succeed. In other words, good job Dusty, Dubois wouldn't have done that well without you. Ridiculous. Then when Dubois struggles, there's not a mention of said "system", and he gets replaced much quicker than Hollandsworth did while putting up similar numbers.

 

Same thing with Murton. Has early success, Dusty says good job, that he's putting Murton in the best situations to succeed. Again, hooray Dusty. Murton continues to hit, all other options sans Hairston are removed, and Murton splits time with Hairston, with all praise for Murton being tempered with "he can't hit for power(paraphrased)". Now Murton keeps hitting, and it's a result of Dusty's plan all along. Sorry if I don't buy that.

[UK1679666180]

You better duck before you're hit with the flying reason of, "Patterson was already an established position player. So he doesn't count."

 

He went Patterson in '03 and stuck with him in '04 as well as the start of '05 b/c who was there that could play CF? Macias? Dusty wouldn't start Hollandsworth or Burnitz in CF for any extended period of time. Plus, the ceiling of Patterson and those of Murton, Dubois are separate items. neither Murton or Dubois have ever been close to the top prospect in MLB.

 

Dubois was coming off a great AAA season, Hollandsworth was coming off a strong '04 season. The difference is that Hollandsworth proved throughout his career he was a career 4th OF'er even with his strong '04 season. With Hollandsworth being a career 4th OF'er, Dubois should've gone in as the primary LF'er unless they got an additional LF'er (I wanted Floyd).

Edited September 22, 2005 by UK

[CubfaninCA]

Another ridiculous quote from Dusty, " Murton isn't the typical lead-off guy. He doesn't have enough speed." I'll place my bet on Murton beating Perez in the 100 m dash. I'd also take Murton over Eckstein in the 100 m dash. Nevertheless, it's about getting on base.

 

Changing subjects: why are you guys trying to put Dubois and Murton in the same class? You shouldn't . Dubois is 27 years old and played many, many years in the minors. Why some of you are still considering him a "kid" is somewhat hilarious. Murton has/had more upside than Dubois. I don't understand why Dubois' name is even being brought up. I don't even think he's in the same class as Murton.

 

Dubois has played all this year at 26, and spent 4 years(not exactly an eternity) in the minor leagues. The comparisons are there, Dusty handled their successes nearly the exact same way. Fortunately, Murton hasn't faltered yet so we haven't seen what he'll do if that happens.

 

In baseball terms, it is an eternity. There is a reason why Dubois didn't see his first real big league action until 26, sorry for the misinformation I provided stating he's 27. Maybe Murton hasn't faltered because he's just better than Dubois. I think some just had too high of expectations for Dubois. I still think Murton is in a different class than Dubois.

 

Ding, ding, ding. Correct answer. Murton >> DuBois. DuBois had a hot April then cooled off considerably whereas Murton keeps producing.

 

It's interesting how some totally disregard how Baker has stuck w/ Corey Patterson through thick and thin. He's younger than DuBois.

 

You better duck before you're hit with the flying reason of, "Patterson was already an established position player. So he doesn't count."

 

Dusty probably liked the .284 obp Corey posted in 2002.

[CubfaninCA]

Another ridiculous quote from Dusty, " Murton isn't the typical lead-off guy. He doesn't have enough speed." I'll place my bet on Murton beating Perez in the 100 m dash. I'd also take Murton over Eckstein in the 100 m dash. Nevertheless, it's about getting on base.

 

Changing subjects: why are you guys trying to put Dubois and Murton in the same class? You shouldn't . Dubois is 27 years old and played many, many years in the minors. Why some of you are still considering him a "kid" is somewhat hilarious. Murton has/had more upside than Dubois. I don't understand why Dubois' name is even being brought up. I don't even think he's in the same class as Murton.

 

Dubois has played all this year at 26, and spent 4 years(not exactly an eternity) in the minor leagues. The comparisons are there, Dusty handled their successes nearly the exact same way. Fortunately, Murton hasn't faltered yet so we haven't seen what he'll do if that happens.

 

In baseball terms, it is an eternity. There is a reason why Dubois didn't see his first real big league action until 26, sorry for the misinformation I provided stating he's 27. Maybe Murton hasn't faltered because he's just better than Dubois. I think some just had too high of expectations for Dubois. I still think Murton is in a different class than Dubois.

 

The expectations are pretty much irrelevant. I'm not trying to make a point that Dubois and Murton would have similar results, I'm trying to show how the two rookie OFs were treated, and how Dusty pats himself on the back for their success(despite hindering them), yet doesn't take any blame for their failures.

 

Maybe it's not his fault. Maybe DuBois just isn't that good. The same arguments were made for Choi and 2 years later he's in LA and still struggling. Choi was a better prospect than DuBois too.

 

You're missing the point entirely.

 

I know I wouldn't want a system where I don't get blamed for failure, and get credit for success.

 

There's nothing that disproves this circular logic that's been proved several times. Dubois had early success, Dusty had praise but always some criticisms that somehow justified him not playing. When Dubois finally got to play, Dusty said that this was the plan all along, and that he's been trying to put him in the best situations to succeed. In other words, good job Dusty, Dubois wouldn't have done that well without you. Ridiculous. Then when Dubois struggles, there's not a mention of said "system", and he gets replaced much quicker than Hollandsworth did while putting up similar numbers.

 

Same thing with Murton. Has early success, Dusty says good job, that he's putting Murton in the best situations to succeed. Again, hooray Dusty. Murton continues to hit, all other options sans Hairston are removed, and Murton splits time with Hairston, with all praise for Murton being tempered with "he can't hit for power(paraphrased)". Now Murton keeps hitting, and it's a result of Dusty's plan all along. Sorry if I don't buy that.

 

Can't see why people can't get a grasp of "putting youngsters in position's to succeed."

 

The point should be that DuBois should be playing for Tampa, not a big market team. Time to move on already and end the incessant nitpicking.

[JC]

 

Maybe it's not his fault. Maybe DuBois just isn't that good. The same arguments were made for Choi and 2 years later he's in LA and still struggling. Choi was a better prospect than DuBois too.

 

If Choi is struggling with 15 homers, hitting .257 with a .336 OPB in about 300 ABs, I'd better never see you shower praise on Neifi Perez again.

[CubfaninCA]

You better duck before you're hit with the flying reason of, "Patterson was already an established position player. So he doesn't count."

 

He went Patterson in '03 and stuck with him in '04 as well as the start of '05 b/c who was there that could play CF? Macias? Dusty wouldn't start Hollandsworth or Burnitz in CF for any extended period of time. Plus, the ceiling of Patterson and those of Murton, Dubois are separate items. neither Murton or Dubois have ever been close to the top prospect in MLB.

 

Dubois was coming off a great AAA season, Hollandsworth was coming off a strong '04 season. The difference is that Hollandsworth proved throughout his career he was a career 4th OF'er even with his strong '04 season. With Hollandsworth being a career 4th OF'er, Dubois should've gone in as the primary LF'er unless they got an additional LF'er (I wanted Floyd).

 

Baker could have pushed for a cf free agent.. He's the guy who brought Neifi, Macias and Burnitz here right?? Why not bring Lofton w/ him from SF??? Or perhaps he views Patterson as a 5 tool prospect, who should play despite his struggles??? Perhaps Baker has more patience w/ 5 toolers than w/ 2 1/2 toolers like Dubi.

[UK1679666180]

Who said Baker brought those guys in here? Besides you... I blame Hendry for those poor acquisitions. I blame Baker for playing them more than they deserved as well as putting them in roles they were not suited for (hitting 2nd for Perez and having Macias be the prim. bat off the bench).

 

Odd how that shifts that standpoint you were reaching for?

 

Or perhaps he views Patterson as a 5 tool prospect, who should play despite his struggles???

 

He sees his talents, everyone does. I'm sure he thought Corey should play as did I.

 

But, either he overvalued Hollandsworth or undervalued Dubois to the point where he didn't deserve the chance to start over a career 4th OF'er. Dusty was wrong in either scenario, IMO.

[CubfaninCA]

 

Maybe it's not his fault. Maybe DuBois just isn't that good. The same arguments were made for Choi and 2 years later he's in LA and still struggling. Choi was a better prospect than DuBois too.

 

If Choi is struggling with 15 homers, hitting .257 with a .336 OPB in about 300 ABs, I'd better never see you shower praise on Neifi Perez again.

 

Do you follow the Dodgers at all or just read the stats?? Choi's a part-time player. He doesn't face left-handed pitchers and Tracy has a tendency to sit him against guys like Clemens and Oswalt. Neifi's faces all comers, and I've said all along that he's a middle of the pack SS. Can't see how that's "praise." Nice spin though. :o

 

Put Choi in there every day and his stat line wouldn't look as good. Of course, it's about average for a 1b where it stands.

[UK1679666180]

 

Maybe it's not his fault. Maybe DuBois just isn't that good. The same arguments were made for Choi and 2 years later he's in LA and still struggling. Choi was a better prospect than DuBois too.

 

If Choi is struggling with 15 homers, hitting .257 with a .336 OPB in about 300 ABs, I'd better never see you shower praise on Neifi Perez again.

 

I hate those .794 OPS players.

[brinoch]

How in the world do you get that Neifi is a "middle of the pack" SS? Granted, many of the NL SS are rather pathetic but nonetheless, Neifi's stellar .302 OBP isn't in the middle of the pack. He does have a .390 SLG, which isn't terrible for the position, I'll grant. Neifi's problem is that he doesn't take pitches and doesn't take walks. He's an undisciplined slap hitter with absolutely no patience who's managed to ground into 21 DP, which is bad enough for 7th most GIDP in all of baseball.

[frostwyrm]

You better duck before you're hit with the flying reason of, "Patterson was already an established position player. So he doesn't count."

 

It's been stated many times on this board that Baker dislikes inexperience much more than youth. They often go hand in hand, but not always. Patterson had 820 ML plate appearances before Baker ever got here, so he is a different case from Murton or Dubois.

[frostwyrm]

 

Maybe it's not his fault. Maybe DuBois just isn't that good. The same arguments were made for Choi and 2 years later he's in LA and still struggling. Choi was a better prospect than DuBois too.

 

If Choi is struggling with 15 homers, hitting .257 with a .336 OPB in about 300 ABs, I'd better never see you shower praise on Neifi Perez again.

 

I hate those .794 OPS players.

 

That's better than Jeromy Burnitz, who has started almost every stinkin game for the Cubs.

[abuck1220]

 

Maybe it's not his fault. Maybe DuBois just isn't that good. The same arguments were made for Choi and 2 years later he's in LA and still struggling. Choi was a better prospect than DuBois too.

 

If Choi is struggling with 15 homers, hitting .257 with a .336 OPB in about 300 ABs, I'd better never see you shower praise on Neifi Perez again.

 

Do you follow the Dodgers at all or just read the stats?? Choi's a part-time player. He doesn't face left-handed pitchers and Tracy has a tendency to sit him against guys like Clemens and Oswalt. Neifi's faces all comers, and I've said all along that he's a middle of the pack SS. Can't see how that's "praise." Nice spin though. :o

 

Put Choi in there every day and his stat line wouldn't look as good. Of course, it's about average for a 1b where it stands.

 

or his numbers could improve w/ more consistent playing time.

[imb]

Im glad someone else was willing to take up the "I love Dusty Baker" banner, we were really lacking since ZZ got b&

 

Quite clever considering I want Baker to be fired. :o

 

Just trying to provide some objectivity for a change.

Yeah, I saw this post, too, and couldn't figure out who IMB! was referring to. I went back and looked to see if anyone in this thread actually said they loved Dusty Baker and wanted him to stay on as manager and I couldn't find one post that said that.

 

Maybe IMB! couldn't argue with our points, so he/she decided to try to paint as something we're not. I don't know.

 

Find one post where I was talking to you? I was using a little hyperbole to describe our friend over there, I didn't know I had to clear that by you. Maybe you couldn't come up with a post that had any substance to it, so you decided to come up with this bs again, nice going.

Wow, clearly you haven't read my posts in this thread. I gave a direct quote from Matt Murton talking about the subject at hand. I don't know how much more substantive and relevent you need my post to be before you can recognize that it has some "substance" to it.

 

On the other hand, the post of your's I quoted above is nothing but an attempt at a derisive personal attack that by your own admission is exaggerated.

 

Your post also failed to clarify who you were talking to. When I read it, I assumed you were responding to my posts. Then I saw that CubfaninCA had also responded. I went back and saw that we were basically the only two posters that were saying that Dusty might actually have been accurate in his statement. I also saw that no one wrote anything remotely close to what you accused them of have writing. I wasn't sure whether you were accusing me or CubfaninCA or someone else of having taken up the banner you described, but since you didn't say exactly to whom you were referring, it was a logical deduction to reach that it was either one of us or both.

 

Hyperbole? I guess if that's all you got, use it.

 

Now, if we can get back on track in this thread. Does anyone else truly believe that Murton was forced to say what he said?

 

Keep raging against the machine then. I'm interested to see just how long your crazy quest to right the message board wrongs against Dusty Baker lasts.