Hendry sees Cedeno as a starter in 2006

[MembersOnlyJacket]

My understanding is that Neifi is coming back too. There is zero chance of Cedeno starting over Neifi at SS. I suppose we could see Neifi at SS and Cedeno at 2B. If it were up to me I'd go with Cedeno at SS and Walker at 2B and dump Neifi.

 

Dusty sounds like he might be lobbying for Neifi:

 

"He's going to be a fine, fine player," Baker said of Cedeno. "It's just a matter of when we clear that spot for him, and do we hold somebody in reserve in case he doesn't do it."

 

because...

 

 

"If he's going to play short, he has to work on getting his throw truer. Right now, it runs into the runner."

 

...

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

No, with nomar going to 2nd. It's less range for Nomar, so he won't stress out his groin. With his arm, he can do fine on 2nd. Cedeno can start at SS. Nomar is a career .320 hitter and you can see how good he is since he came back. He's hitting .370 with 6 homers. And he said he's willing to work for less than $2 million dollars, but of course laden with incentives. I say give him a chance, and that would save us money to go after help for our bullpen and one outfielder (maybe damon).

 

it takes almost as much range to play 2B as it does SS (play it well defensively anyway, lol). 3B is where Nomar should move to, but that spot is taken on our ballclub. Later Nomar. I wish it could have worked out, but we need people to be healthy and not put us in the fix we were this year. SS was supposed to be a strength position for us...instead it turned into a weakness offensively.

 

Cedeno starting in '06 is good news. Time to play him every day, Dusty. :wink:

[TrueBlueCubFan]

Am I to assume there is no chance of Nomar playing left field next year? Or, extremely crazy thought, Ramirez playing left field and Nomar playing 3rd.?

very unrealistic

[erik316wttn]

I agree that I'd love to see Nomar and Walker back, with Cedeno as a "super sub" spelling Nomar, Walker, and even Aramis for a day or two here and there.

 

If Neifi comes back, with Dusty's penchant for overusing him, I will be very angry. If he's on this team Cedeno will amass a pretty impressive collection of butt splinters.

 

Or, I could live with losing one of Walker or Nomar. I'm torn on which one as I really like both. As long as Cedeno starts at the empty position and Neifi is off the team I'd be ok with it.

 

Start Murton in left, too.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

My understanding is that Neifi is coming back too. There is zero chance of Cedeno starting over Neifi at SS. I suppose we could see Neifi at SS and Cedeno at 2B. If it were up to me I'd go with Cedeno at SS and Walker at 2B and dump Neifi.

 

Dusty sounds like he might be lobbying for Neifi:

 

"He's going to be a fine, fine player," Baker said of Cedeno. "It's just a matter of when we clear that spot for him, and do we hold somebody in reserve in case he doesn't do it."

 

because...

 

 

"If he's going to play short, he has to work on getting his throw truer. Right now, it runs into the runner."

 

...

 

He always manages to get some criticism in. But hey, Neifi was unlucky.

[Havoc 23]

Do we need a back up 3B if we have Nomar? Ramirez at 3B (obviously), Nomar at SS, Cedeno at 2B. If Ramirez needs a day off then you have Nomar at 3B, Cedeno at SS, and Hairston at 2B. Get rid of both Macias and Perez. That in essence gives us 2 second basemen, 2 shortstops, and 2 third basemen, all with decent to good offense. Yes, the defense still wouldn't be a tremendous improvement, if any at all. Only problem I see is if two of them get hurt. We probably would need another super-sub.

[frostwyrm]

We're out of the playoff race and Cedeno still starts less than half the games while Neifi starts the majority. It just seems so silly to me that anyone would believe Cedeno would start over Neifi next year.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

We're out of the playoff race and Cedeno still starts less than half the games while Neifi starts the majority. It just seems so silly to me that anyone would believe Cedeno would start over Neifi next year.

 

I'm starting to resort to hoping someone pulls a Bowden in regards to Neifi to get him away from here.

[nilodnayr]

Has the Twins FO changed since they single handedly have nearly ruined Walker's career through lies? I wouldn't mind Lew Ford, he can legitimately play all three OF positions, lead off and steal some bases. We'd probably have to sweeten the pot, but for a cheap player like Lew it might not be a bad move.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

If we take the $2.5M option on Walker, can we use him off the bench?

 

2B Cedeno

SS Nomar

3B ARam

 

Bench: Neifi, Walker

[abuck1220]

"If he's going to play short, he has to work on getting his throw truer. Right now, it runs into the runner."

 

give me a break...this guy always finds a way to cut down a young player and make excuses for an older player. his bias is so ridiculously obvious that i can't believe he even makes an effort to dispel it with his comments.

 

well, i'd love to start cedeno at ss, but his throws to first run just a little bit into the runner. i think we'll go w/ neifi and his sub-.300 obp...his throws to first are awesome!

[woodprior04]

I highly doubt Cedeno is starting on this team as long as Dusty is still here. If Ronny is starting, than that means Neifi will be the 2nd baseman. No way Neifi is a backup behind Cedeno, unless by some miracle either or Dusty or Neifi are gone or better yet both.

 

I kinda hope Nomar is resigned for a cheap one year deal, since he would be a nice low risk/high reward option even if he only plays around 120 games. Pick up Walker's option and have Cedeno give Nomar 1 or 2 days off a weak. If Nomar isn't coming back then I definitely want Cedeno playing everyday.

[Brian]

I'm 100 percent confident if Neifi is signed, and Hendry says that Cedeno is the starter.. We will see Hollandsworth/Dubois V.2. Cedeno will start against lefties, get really hot about a month in the Media will clamor to get him more playing time. Neifi gets a couple of big pinch hits and Neifi is back to starting more than ever, Cedeno gets cold and stops hitting and than is traded for a nothing prospect.

[YearofDaCubs]

I'm 100 percent confident if Neifi is signed, and Hendry says that Cedeno is the starter.. We will see Hollandsworth/Dubois V.2. Cedeno will start against lefties, get really hot about a month in the Media will clamor to get him more playing time. Neifi gets a couple of big pinch hits and Neifi is back to starting more than ever, Cedeno gets cold and stops hitting and than is traded for a nothing prospect.

That's why it is ridiculous to think that Dusty should evem be back next year. Too bad this organization has no clue.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

How much "truer" does Aramis' throws have to be? Derrek Lee can handle "untrue" throws, I think.

[CubsWin]

My understanding is that Neifi is coming back too. There is zero chance of Cedeno starting over Neifi at SS. I suppose we could see Neifi at SS and Cedeno at 2B. If it were up to me I'd go with Cedeno at SS and Walker at 2B and dump Neifi.

Not according to Hendry. But then again, what does he know? :wink:

 

Yeah.... wasn't he the same guy that told us Sammy would be playing right field for us this year ???

 

In the preseason he also talked up Dubois as a potential Rookie of the Year, then it turned out Hollandsworth was the starter. Hendry says a lot of BS for public consumption. Judging by how quickly Dubois was dumped it wouldn't surprise me if Hendry was looking for offers for Dubois even before opening day and the ROY talk was just hype to inflate Dubois' value.

That's possible. Its also possible that Hendry had nothing to do with the decision to start Hollandsworth. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to learn that there is an expectation in baseball that it is disrespectful for the GM to start telling the manager who to start.

[Brian]

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to learn that there is an expectation in baseball that it is disrespectful for the GM to start telling the manager who to start.

 

As documented in Moneyball, Billy Beane got mad at the players that the then manager was using and told him who to use and it seemed like it was big deal (as in that doesn't happen often). Guess what Beane got a new manager the next season....

[CubsWin]

"If he's going to play short, he has to work on getting his throw truer. Right now, it runs into the runner."

 

give me a break...this guy always finds a way to cut down a young player and make excuses for an older player. his bias is so ridiculously obvious that i can't believe he even makes an effort to dispel it with his comments.

 

well, i'd love to start cedeno at ss, but his throws to first run just a little bit into the runner. i think we'll go w/ neifi and his sub-.300 obp...his throws to first are awesome!

No, you give me a break.

 

Honestly, would this quote raise an eyebrow if any other manager had said it? If Tony LaRussa or Bobby Cox were saying this we would be saying, "see, it is their eye for detail and the level of excellence they demand of their players that gets them where they are".

 

This is a perfect example of people who already have made up their mind about Baker taking a perfectly innocent quote and trying to turn into evidence that supports their already-made-up-mind's position.

 

Baker may deserve to be fired, but this quote has nothing to do with it.

[CubsWin]

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to learn that there is an expectation in baseball that it is disrespectful for the GM to start telling the manager who to start.

 

As documented in Moneyball, Billy Beane got mad at the players that the then manager was using and told him who to use and it seemed like it was big deal (as in that doesn't happen often). Guess what Beane got a new manager the next season....

Yes, I agree that Hendry can afford to assert himself more, if he indeed he disagrees with Baker, but for the purposes of the comment I made, the story you mention from Moneyball only serves to support the notion that GMs don't have control over who to start.

 

And certainly not at the begining of the season with the manager having only fulfilled 2 years of a 4-year contract. It certainly is possible that, starting with Hendry's decision to bring up Murton and Greenburg, we saw the beginning of Hendry asserting himself over Baker in this regard.

[abuck1220]

"If he's going to play short, he has to work on getting his throw truer. Right now, it runs into the runner."

 

give me a break...this guy always finds a way to cut down a young player and make excuses for an older player. his bias is so ridiculously obvious that i can't believe he even makes an effort to dispel it with his comments.

 

well, i'd love to start cedeno at ss, but his throws to first run just a little bit into the runner. i think we'll go w/ neifi and his sub-.300 obp...his throws to first are awesome!

 

Honestly, would this quote raise an eyebrow if any other manager had said it? If Tony LaRussa or Bobby Cox were saying this we would be saying, "see, it is their eye for detail and the level of excellence they demand of their players that gets them where they are".

 

 

yeah, except, strangely enough he only nit-picks at the games of younger players.

 

-murton needs to hit for more power (replaced by hairston, who has no power & patterson who can't hit anything)

-dubois can't play defense (replaced by hollandsworth, who is awful defensively, and can't hit to save his life)

-cedeno throws slightly funny (replaced by neifi and his .300 obp)

-hill isn't ready for the big leagues (replaced by rusch, who has gone 0-4 with an 8ish era since he took hill's spot)

 

point me to an example of him doing this to a young player, then we'll talk.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

"If he's going to play short, he has to work on getting his throw truer. Right now, it runs into the runner."

 

give me a break...this guy always finds a way to cut down a young player and make excuses for an older player. his bias is so ridiculously obvious that i can't believe he even makes an effort to dispel it with his comments.

 

well, i'd love to start cedeno at ss, but his throws to first run just a little bit into the runner. i think we'll go w/ neifi and his sub-.300 obp...his throws to first are awesome!

No, you give me a break.

 

Honestly, would this quote raise an eyebrow if any other manager had said it? If Tony LaRussa or Bobby Cox were saying this we would be saying, "see, it is their eye for detail and the level of excellence they demand of their players that gets them where they are".

 

This is a perfect example of people who already have made up their mind about Baker taking a perfectly innocent quote and trying to turn into evidence that supports their already-made-up-mind's position.

 

Baker may deserve to be fired, but this quote has nothing to do with it.

 

It's not the quote in a vacuum. Dubois "was never going to win a gold glove". Murton doesn't have enough power. Cedeno's throws "run a little bit into the runner". Yet when others(read: not rookies) play horribly, Dusty says that "they're just unlucky" or some other incomprehensible nonsense to defend them. It's a double standard, backed up by his actions and his words.

[frostwyrm]

Dusty bent over backwards to defend Shawn Estes. He kept saying Estes was unlucky.

[CubsWin]

"If he's going to play short, he has to work on getting his throw truer. Right now, it runs into the runner."

 

give me a break...this guy always finds a way to cut down a young player and make excuses for an older player. his bias is so ridiculously obvious that i can't believe he even makes an effort to dispel it with his comments.

 

well, i'd love to start cedeno at ss, but his throws to first run just a little bit into the runner. i think we'll go w/ neifi and his sub-.300 obp...his throws to first are awesome!

 

Honestly, would this quote raise an eyebrow if any other manager had said it? If Tony LaRussa or Bobby Cox were saying this we would be saying, "see, it is their eye for detail and the level of excellence they demand of their players that gets them where they are".

 

 

yeah, except, strangely enough he only nit-picks at the games of younger players.

 

-murton needs to hit for more power (replaced by hairston, who has no power & patterson who can't hit anything)

-dubois can't play defense (replaced by hollandsworth, who is awful defensively, and can't hit to save his life)

-cedeno throws slightly funny (replaced by neifi and his .300 obp)

-hill isn't ready for the big leagues (replaced by rusch, who has gone 0-4 with an 8ish era since he took hill's spot)

 

point me to an example of him doing this to a young player, then we'll talk.

I think you meant older.

 

But wasn't it just recently, and then back in July and also back at the end of May that Baker was making public comments about how players, both veterans and not, needed to be more selective at the plate?

[abuck1220]

"If he's going to play short, he has to work on getting his throw truer. Right now, it runs into the runner."

 

give me a break...this guy always finds a way to cut down a young player and make excuses for an older player. his bias is so ridiculously obvious that i can't believe he even makes an effort to dispel it with his comments.

 

well, i'd love to start cedeno at ss, but his throws to first run just a little bit into the runner. i think we'll go w/ neifi and his sub-.300 obp...his throws to first are awesome!

 

Honestly, would this quote raise an eyebrow if any other manager had said it? If Tony LaRussa or Bobby Cox were saying this we would be saying, "see, it is their eye for detail and the level of excellence they demand of their players that gets them where they are".

 

 

yeah, except, strangely enough he only nit-picks at the games of younger players.

 

-murton needs to hit for more power (replaced by hairston, who has no power & patterson who can't hit anything)

-dubois can't play defense (replaced by hollandsworth, who is awful defensively, and can't hit to save his life)

-cedeno throws slightly funny (replaced by neifi and his .300 obp)

-hill isn't ready for the big leagues (replaced by rusch, who has gone 0-4 with an 8ish era since he took hill's spot)

 

point me to an example of him doing this to a young player, then we'll talk.

I think you meant older.

 

But wasn't it just recently, and then back in July and also back at the end of May that Baker was making public comments about how players, both veterans and not, needed to be more selective at the plate?

 

maybe...but what came of it? two of the most unselective players on the team (macias and neifi) have only gotten more playing time.

[CubsWin]

Look, abuck, I hold the opinion that Baker overvalues major league experience when he is determining who to play and who not to play, and this leads to his perceived bias against rookies. It isn't a bias against rookies. So his quotes that aren't directly about his playing rookies don't apply and are simply being twisted. He has and will play a rookie if he determines that they are his best option for winning today's game. But in the process for making that determination, he, wrongly in my opinion, overvalues the major league experience the player may or may not have. But he is still, in his mind, playing whomever gives his team the best chance of winning, rookie or not.

 

So the debate isn't about Baker having a bias and being an idiot, etc. It is and should be about the value of major league experience in a player's ability to produce and contribute to winning ball games.

 

Does anyone have any stats on that? My personal opinion is that it doesn't matter as much as Baker thinks it does, but I have no evidence to support that opinion. Anybody?