Baker - "I ain't leaving unless somebody fires me"

[Fro]

Dusty needs to be fired, the Reds are about ready to pass us :shock: :cry: :evil:

[CUBZ99]

I like Dusty's attitude in his comments about staying put. It doesn't seem likely that Hendry will fire him and he has already proven that with a good pitching staff and an OF or two who can hit, that he can take the Cubs into the postseason.

 

I think it is time for Hendry to step up and makes some moves this off season. He is as much to blame as any one for the Cubs poor showing so far this year.

[NewUserName]

The only reason Dusty got us anywhere is 2003 is because Wood, Prior and Clement were absolute studs down the stretch and in the 1st round of the playoffs. Then he just got absolutely out-managed by Jack Mckeon in the LCS. If by chance we go to the WS it will be because a group of players plays at a higher than expected level, overcoming Dusty bad managing to get us there.

[CarolinaCubFan]

I like Dusty's attitude in his comments about staying put. It doesn't seem likely that Hendry will fire him and he has already proven that with a good pitching staff and an OF or two who can hit, that he can take the Cubs into the postseason.

 

I think it is time for Hendry to step up and makes some moves this off season. He is as much to blame as any one for the Cubs poor showing so far this year.

 

Baker had very little to do with the success of the Cubs his first season. Every year since, this club has slipped bit by bit.

[Balsa]

Hey Dusty? You wanna manage a team that has no expectations?

 

Go to Kansas City!

[Crash]

If Dusty wins the series next year I will throw him a parade... right before I give him the pink slip.

[CUBZ99]

I like Dusty's attitude in his comments about staying put. It doesn't seem likely that Hendry will fire him and he has already proven that with a good pitching staff and an OF or two who can hit, that he can take the Cubs into the postseason.

 

I think it is time for Hendry to step up and makes some moves this off season. He is as much to blame as any one for the Cubs poor showing so far this year.

 

Baker had very little to do with the success of the Cubs his first season. Every year since, this club has slipped bit by bit.

 

So you hold him accountable for this year, but refuse to give him credit for his success?

 

Face it, Hendry let him down bad at the beginning of the season. He replaced Sosa and Alou with Hollandsworth and Burnitz. He replaced Matt Clement with nobody. He made the bullpen worse (if that was possible) and he left the bench a disaster. But yes, keep telling yourself it is all Dusty's fault.

 

Hendry is the one who should get the axe.

[YearofDaCubs]

I like Dusty's attitude in his comments about staying put. It doesn't seem likely that Hendry will fire him and he has already proven that with a good pitching staff and an OF or two who can hit, that he can take the Cubs into the postseason.

 

I think it is time for Hendry to step up and makes some moves this off season. He is as much to blame as any one for the Cubs poor showing so far this year.

 

Baker had very little to do with the success of the Cubs his first season. Every year since, this club has slipped bit by bit.

 

So you hold him accountable for this year, but refuse to give him credit for his success?

 

Face it, Hendry let him down bad at the beginning of the season. He replaced Sosa and Alou with Hollandsworth and Burnitz. He replaced Matt Clement with nobody. He made the bullpen worse (if that was possible) and he left the bench a disaster. But yes, keep telling yourself it is all Dusty's fault.

 

Hendry is the one who should get the axe.

It's not just Dusty's fault. Hendry is to blame as well, but Dusty is a bad manager plain and simple.

[XZero771679666304]

I like Dusty's attitude in his comments about staying put. It doesn't seem likely that Hendry will fire him and he has already proven that with a good pitching staff and an OF or two who can hit, that he can take the Cubs into the postseason.

 

I think it is time for Hendry to step up and makes some moves this off season. He is as much to blame as any one for the Cubs poor showing so far this year.

 

Baker had very little to do with the success of the Cubs his first season. Every year since, this club has slipped bit by bit.

 

So you hold him accountable for this year, but refuse to give him credit for his success?

 

Face it, Hendry let him down bad at the beginning of the season. He replaced Sosa and Alou with Hollandsworth and Burnitz. He replaced Matt Clement with nobody. He made the bullpen worse (if that was possible) and he left the bench a disaster. But yes, keep telling yourself it is all Dusty's fault.

 

Hendry is the one who should get the axe.

Hendry hurt the bullpen, but Baker finshed it off. How much different might things have been if Dempster had been closing since the start of the season, with Hawkins and Fox (Dusty's fault) setting him up? That's what Hendry wanted, but Baker saw fit to put Hawk in the closer's role (where EVERYONE knew he would fail), Dempster in the rotation (where he was no good), and Rusch in the bullpen. What a freaking waste. How much sense did that make? And it ruined what might have been at least a decent pen.

 

Burnitz has been better than Sosa, but Hendry did mess up not replacing Alou. But Baker messed up just as bad by playing Holla when it was clear he stunk, and players like Dubois (who was marginally better, but better) and Murton festered on the bench. How about using his two worst OBP players in the 1-2 holes for the better part of a month, when Walker was avilable? Dumbassery.

 

As for the rotation, going into the season with a rotation of Prior, Wood, Zambrano, Maddux and Rusch was nothing to complain about, so you can't fault Jim for not replacing Clement.

 

The bench has been a bit of a mess to say the least, but Perez playing through June and July (when he was flat out terrible), using Macias as the first bat off the bench, starting Holla when his strength is as a bench player, etc. has not helped matters any.

 

But you just keep telling yourself it's all Hendry's fault.

 

Both are equally at fault, but Baker is just a poor manager. Like it has been said in this thread, the 2003 playoff run was due to Wood, Prior, Z and Clement. Prior and Wood pitched on a whole other level for two straight months, and we still barely made it. Remember Lenny Harris leading off? Just many in a series of boneheaded Baker moves that got lost in the playoff fervor. The point is that the 2003 season wasn't really Baker's success. He messed up that year, but the rotation pitched like they never have before or since and bailed Dusty out.

 

Dusty has always made his living riding on the coattails of great players and great performances. Matt Williams, Bonds, Kent, Aurilia (when he was good), Robb Nen, Billy Swift, John Burkett, Kerry Wood, Prior, Z, Clement...Dusty has benefitted from the best seasons all and more than they had to offer. And since Dusty likes to let "players police themselves" or delegate to his coaches (That's Larry's department"), you can't credit his coaching for their successes. No matter what he or anyone else says, the total lack of fundamentals, pateince at the plate, etc. reflects on him. He is the man in charge of the house, and it is poorly run, to be kind.

 

You set much adversity in his way, and his teams fold like a lawn chair, as we have seen first hand.

 

So why in the world would we give him a free pass for two years of blatant mismanagement because of one season theat wasn't that great (88 wins doesn't get you in most years) that he had little to do with? Please. I know we all get some warm fuzzies thinking about the pre-game 6 2003 season, but let's not let that cloud our judgement. Dusty wasn't that good then, and he sure isn't now.

 

Hendry isn't with out his very large share of blame, but assigning Bakers share to Jim is patently ridiculous. Dusty has not made the best out of the hand he was dealt, or anywhere even close. If we win next year and Dusty is still in charge, it wil be in spite of him unless he totally overhauls his approach.

[indifferent]

I like Dusty's attitude in his comments about staying put. It doesn't seem likely that Hendry will fire him and he has already proven that with a good pitching staff and an OF or two who can hit, that he can take the Cubs into the postseason.

 

I think it is time for Hendry to step up and makes some moves this off season. He is as much to blame as any one for the Cubs poor showing so far this year.

 

Baker had very little to do with the success of the Cubs his first season. Every year since, this club has slipped bit by bit.

 

So you hold him accountable for this year, but refuse to give him credit for his success?

 

Face it, Hendry let him down bad at the beginning of the season. He replaced Sosa and Alou with Hollandsworth and Burnitz. He replaced Matt Clement with nobody. He made the bullpen worse (if that was possible) and he left the bench a disaster. But yes, keep telling yourself it is all Dusty's fault.

 

Hendry is the one who should get the axe.

Hendry hurt the bullpen, but Baker finshed it off. How much different might things have been if Dempster had been closing since the start of the season, with Hawkins and Fox (Dusty's fault) setting him up? That's what Hendry wanted, but Baker saw fit to put Hawk in the closer's role (where EVERYONE knew he would fail), Dempster in the rotation (where he was no good), and Rusch in the bullpen. What a freaking waste. How much sense did that make? And it ruined what might have been at least a decent pen.

 

Burnitz has been better than Sosa, but Hendry did mess up not replacing Alou. But Baker messed up just as bad by playing Holla when it was clear he stunk, and players like Dubois (who was marginally better, but better) and Murton festered on the bench. How about using his two worst OBP players in the 1-2 holes for the better part of a month, when Walker was avilable? Dumbassery.

 

As for the rotation, going into the season with a rotation of Prior, Wood, Zambrano, Maddux and Rusch was nothing to complain about, so you can't fault Jim for not replacing Clement.

 

The bench has been a bit of a mess to say the least, but Perez playing through June and July (when he was flat out terrible), using Macias as the first bat off the bench, starting Holla when his strength is as a bench player, etc. has not helped matters any.

 

But you just keep telling yourself it's all Hendry's fault.

 

Both are equally at fault, but Baker is just a poor manager. Like it has been said in this thread, the 2003 playoff run was due to Wood, Prior, Z and Clement. Prior and Wood pitched on a whole other level for two straight months, and we still barely made it. Remember Lenny Harris leading off? Just many in a series of boneheaded Baker moves that got lost in the playoff fervor. The point is that the 2003 season wasn't really Baker's success. He messed up that year, but the rotation pitched like they never have before or since and bailed Dusty out.

 

Dusty has always made his living riding on the coattails of great players and great performances. Matt Williams, Bonds, Kent, Aurilia (when he was good), Robb Nen, Billy Swift, John Burkett, Kerry Wood, Prior, Z, Clement...Dusty has benefitted from the best seasons all and more than they had to offer. And since Dusty likes to let "players police themselves" or delegate to his coaches (That's Larry's department"), you can't credit his coaching for their successes. No matter what he or anyone else says, the total lack of fundamentals, pateince at the plate, etc. reflects on him. He is the man in charge of the house, and it is poorly run, to be kind.

 

You set much adversity in his way, and his teams fold like a lawn chair, as we have seen first hand.

 

So why in the world would we give him a free pass for two years of blatant mismanagement because of one season theat wasn't that great (88 wins doesn't get you in most years) that he had little to do with? Please. I know we all get some warm fuzzies thinking about the pre-game 6 2003 season, but let's not let that cloud our judgement. Dusty wasn't that good then, and he sure isn't now.

 

Hendry isn't with out his very large share of blame, but assigning Bakers share to Jim is patently ridiculous. Dusty has not made the best out of the hand he was dealt, or anywhere even close. If we win next year and Dusty is still in charge, it wil be in spite of him unless he totally overhauls his approach.

 

Excellent post and I would add that until a manager comes close to maximizing the talent he's given, the GM shouldn't get a full share of the blame.

[NorthsideAvenger]

Hendry deserves some blame---ie he should have took away Baker's "Toys, ie Perez, Macias, etc---when this team was struggling. But to say that Hendry hurt the bullpen is a boldface lie.

 

When the Cubs signed Remmy, he was one of the game's top lefties, period. Is it Hendry's fault that Baker didn't use him properly(against rigthies)? When the Cubs signed LaTroy Hawkins--who was the GAME'S TOP SETUP MAN, and many declared him the final piece to the bullpen---was Hendry's fault that Baker COULDN'T recognize the fact that Hawkins couldn't close out a LLWS game, much less a MLB game? When the Cubs traded for Nomar, did ANYBODY actually expect Nomar to play in as little games as he has?

 

Look Hendry deserves some faults---mainly not standing up to Baker and force him to play certain players---but I would put about 15% of the Cubs season on Hendry, about 55% on Baker, and 30% on the players themselves. Hendry isn't the problem---Hendry haters---the problems is Baker REFUSES to use players in roles they SHOULD be use for.

[Laura]

How often do we need to see crap like Prior being overpitched?

 

Plz just DL everyone you want to keep, Hendry. Thanks.

[Larry Horse]

I still won't like Dusty, no matter how many WS rings he wins with the Cubs. (Quick prediction: zero)

[gflore34]

How long did Baker go with a 1-2 of Patterson and Perez? Nuff said...

[CUBZ99]

I like Dusty's attitude in his comments about staying put. It doesn't seem likely that Hendry will fire him and he has already proven that with a good pitching staff and an OF or two who can hit, that he can take the Cubs into the postseason.

 

I think it is time for Hendry to step up and makes some moves this off season. He is as much to blame as any one for the Cubs poor showing so far this year.

 

Baker had very little to do with the success of the Cubs his first season. Every year since, this club has slipped bit by bit.

 

So you hold him accountable for this year, but refuse to give him credit for his success?

 

Face it, Hendry let him down bad at the beginning of the season. He replaced Sosa and Alou with Hollandsworth and Burnitz. He replaced Matt Clement with nobody. He made the bullpen worse (if that was possible) and he left the bench a disaster. But yes, keep telling yourself it is all Dusty's fault.

 

Hendry is the one who should get the axe.

Hendry hurt the bullpen, but Baker finshed it off. How much different might things have been if Dempster had been closing since the start of the season, with Hawkins and Fox (Dusty's fault) setting him up? That's what Hendry wanted, but Baker saw fit to put Hawk in the closer's role (where EVERYONE knew he would fail), Dempster in the rotation (where he was no good), and Rusch in the bullpen. What a freaking waste. How much sense did that make? And it ruined what might have been at least a decent pen.

 

Burnitz has been better than Sosa, but Hendry did mess up not replacing Alou. But Baker messed up just as bad by playing Holla when it was clear he stunk, and players like Dubois (who was marginally better, but better) and Murton festered on the bench. How about using his two worst OBP players in the 1-2 holes for the better part of a month, when Walker was avilable? Dumbassery.

 

As for the rotation, going into the season with a rotation of Prior, Wood, Zambrano, Maddux and Rusch was nothing to complain about, so you can't fault Jim for not replacing Clement.

 

The bench has been a bit of a mess to say the least, but Perez playing through June and July (when he was flat out terrible), using Macias as the first bat off the bench, starting Holla when his strength is as a bench player, etc. has not helped matters any.

 

But you just keep telling yourself it's all Hendry's fault.

 

Both are equally at fault, but Baker is just a poor manager. Like it has been said in this thread, the 2003 playoff run was due to Wood, Prior, Z and Clement. Prior and Wood pitched on a whole other level for two straight months, and we still barely made it. Remember Lenny Harris leading off? Just many in a series of boneheaded Baker moves that got lost in the playoff fervor. The point is that the 2003 season wasn't really Baker's success. He messed up that year, but the rotation pitched like they never have before or since and bailed Dusty out.

 

Dusty has always made his living riding on the coattails of great players and great performances. Matt Williams, Bonds, Kent, Aurilia (when he was good), Robb Nen, Billy Swift, John Burkett, Kerry Wood, Prior, Z, Clement...Dusty has benefitted from the best seasons all and more than they had to offer. And since Dusty likes to let "players police themselves" or delegate to his coaches (That's Larry's department"), you can't credit his coaching for their successes. No matter what he or anyone else says, the total lack of fundamentals, pateince at the plate, etc. reflects on him. He is the man in charge of the house, and it is poorly run, to be kind.

 

You set much adversity in his way, and his teams fold like a lawn chair, as we have seen first hand.

 

So why in the world would we give him a free pass for two years of blatant mismanagement because of one season theat wasn't that great (88 wins doesn't get you in most years) that he had little to do with? Please. I know we all get some warm fuzzies thinking about the pre-game 6 2003 season, but let's not let that cloud our judgement. Dusty wasn't that good then, and he sure isn't now.

 

Hendry isn't with out his very large share of blame, but assigning Bakers share to Jim is patently ridiculous. Dusty has not made the best out of the hand he was dealt, or anywhere even close. If we win next year and Dusty is still in charge, it wil be in spite of him unless he totally overhauls his approach.

 

Hendry should have known better with all of Wood's and Prior's injury history that the Cubs were going to need to replace Clement with someone capable, as well as keep Rusch for when Wood and Prior got hurt.

 

With Alou, there is no excuse. Hollandsworth and Dubois were both equally horrible and should have never been given the starting job.

 

If you look at Dusty's bench (which Hendry has kept short most of the season) he had Macias, Perez, Blanco, Hairston, Dubois. That is unacceptable for a major league team that is trying to make the playoffs.

 

Baker has made some dumb moves, but Hendry has countered them almost move for move. Lets hope that this offseason Hendry doesn't sit around like he did last year and actually improves the team.

[louisvillecub]

http://www.suntimes.com/output/cubs/cst-spt-kiley25.html

 

Today Dusty says:

 

Could Baker finish his career as a Cub?

 

"Possibly,'' he said. "It depends on if we achieve our goal or not. That's a long time off to me. I still look at six or seven more years. There are things I need and want to accomplish. I'm still here. I plan on being here.''

 

If Dusty is here 6-7 more years, this team is doomed forever...

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I like Dusty's attitude in his comments about staying put. It doesn't seem likely that Hendry will fire him and he has already proven that with a good pitching staff and an OF or two who can hit, that he can take the Cubs into the postseason.

 

I think it is time for Hendry to step up and makes some moves this off season. He is as much to blame as any one for the Cubs poor showing so far this year.

 

Baker had very little to do with the success of the Cubs his first season. Every year since, this club has slipped bit by bit.

 

So you hold him accountable for this year, but refuse to give him credit for his success?

 

Face it, Hendry let him down bad at the beginning of the season. He replaced Sosa and Alou with Hollandsworth and Burnitz. He replaced Matt Clement with nobody. He made the bullpen worse (if that was possible) and he left the bench a disaster. But yes, keep telling yourself it is all Dusty's fault.

 

Hendry is the one who should get the axe.

 

I'm not saying Hendry is blameless, but before you say Hendry set Dusty up for failure, I suggest you get the facts straight. Hendry took the 2003 team and greatly improved it. While the 2005 team took a hit from 2004, it's still better than the assembly of talent in 2003.

 

Look at the changes from 2003 to 2004 that happened on Hendry's watch:

 

He replaced Karros/Simon/Choi with Lee.

He replaced Oleary on the bench with Hollandsworth.

He replaced a 1/2 season of Lenny Harris/ Jose Hernandez with Ramirez.

He replaced Damien Miller with Barrett.

He replaced a poor set-up man with Hawkins.

He replaced Guthrie with Mercker.

He replaced Shawn Estes with Maddux.

 

With all that new talent, the best Dusty could manage is one more win in 2004 than 2003 and a complete and utter collapse. I've said it before, with contracts signed before the 2004 season, the drop off from 2004 to 2005 was inevitable. Do I think some blame belongs to Hendry? Surely. But it is Dusty's leadership who has squandered away much of the chances of this team for the past two seasons.

 

I hold Hendry mostly responsible for letting Dusty remain at the helm.

[Derwood]

All I know is that whoever the next manager may be, even if its Torre, Leyland, whoever, WON'T be getting a 4 year deal. I think Hendry's hands are somewhat tied with this next year. Had this been Baker's last year, he wouldn't have gotten a new contract.

[JC]

Comments from MacPhail, Hendry and Dusty all are unsettling to me. They are all becoming increasingly defensive, desparately reaching for explanaitions and excuses. Its getting to the point were open supporters of the three are starting to feel insulted by the rather pathetic commentary coming from them collectively.

 

Things are not good in Wrigleyville right now.[/newsflash]

[Fro]

I won't even mention that we got rid of K-Gonz for Nomar and Murton and that Nefi Perez, as much as people bash him, is about 10x the hitter K-Gonz is.

[goonys evil twin]

I won't even mention that we got rid of K-Gonz for Nomar and Murton and that Nefi Perez, as much as people bash him, is about 10x the hitter K-Gonz is.

 

You won't mention that, but you just did?

 

2005

Neifi - .272 .297 .391

Alex - .263 .320 .424

 

Adv. Alex

 

Career

Neifi - .270 .300 .381

Alex - .243 .303 .394

 

Adv. push (but if you take into account that Neifi played a good chunk of his career in Col, it looks like Alex wins again)

 

How exactly is Neifi 10X the hitter?

[YearofDaCubs]

All Hendry had to do was sign a FA OF instead of allowing Holla to be our LF. I mean really what in the hell was Hendry and Dusty thinking that they would thinkg Holla would be a good option out in LF? Hendry is always looking for cheap deals in FA. They only thing he has paid top dollar for in FA are for set up men and that hasn't worked out well at all. How come all the teams that paid top dollar for the top FAs have significantly improved? Look at the Angels when they signed Vlad. Look at O's with Tejada? Even the Mets with Beltran are a better team especially now that Beltran has been tearing it up as of late. Boston signed Foulke to a FA contract a couple years ago and they rode him down the stretch of the playoff run to a WS win. Hendry with all that payroll needs to pay the top FAs top dollar if we really want to make a run to the WS. All that money wasted on Holla, Neifi, Macias, Burnitz and others could have got you a better OF. This offseason will be interesting because there are terrible FA options available. I dont care if you have to sell the farm get us a good OF and strengthen the team to the point where it is a no question WS contender.

[frostwyrm]

Career

Neifi - .270 .300 .381

Alex - .243 .303 .394

 

Adv. push (but if you take into account that Neifi played a good chunk of his career in Col, it looks like Alex wins again)

 

How exactly is Neifi 10X the hitter?

 

I don't think it's even close. Neifi has historically been terrible outside of Coors, although he has had a run of moderate success at Wrigley. Take out the Coors factor and Neifi would have some of the worst, and possibly THE worst, career numbers of his generation.

[YearofDaCubs]

Neifi as a bench player isnt a problem. The problem is Dusty plays him like he is a starter. He plays him over Hairston at 2B for crying out loud.

[Backtobanks]

Neifi as a bench player isnt a problem. The problem is Dusty plays him like he is a starter. He plays him over Hairston at 2B for crying out loud.

 

As many of us have posted, the problem with the Cubs is not players like Perez, Macias, Hollandsworth, Patterson, etc. , it is how Baker uses them. Hollandsworth has value as a 4th OF/pinch hitter not a starter. Patterson and Perez should never have been at the top of the lineup. Macias should not be the first person off the bench to pinch hit. The list goes on and on.