Clemens,Carpenter, or Willis for Cy Young? (edit)

[IlliniAmy]

Once again, A SURPLUS OF RUN SUPPORT IN NO WAY DIMINISHES CARPENTER'S VALUE!

[cubsfromMD]

Once again, A SURPLUS OF RUN SUPPORT IN NO WAY DIMINISHES CARPENTER'S VALUE!

 

 

but a shortage of run support diminishes clemens...ok i get it now

[wolf stansson]

Once again, A SURPLUS OF RUN SUPPORT IN NO WAY DIMINISHES CARPENTER'S VALUE!

In that case, a lack of run support for Rocket can't diminish his value. I clearly want Carpenter to win it, and I definitely respect you as a poster Amy, but this isn't an argument that can be won. You can make a case for either. Fortunately, Carp will get it and render this entire thread pointless.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Once again, A SURPLUS OF RUN SUPPORT IN NO WAY DIMINISHES CARPENTER'S VALUE!

 

And I don't think anyone diminishes his value because he's gotten run support. I regard run support in no way in determining who is the best pitcher.

 

VORP, RA, ERA don't consider run support. Why do you think we diminish his value because he has gotten run support? His performances stand on their own merit. The metrics still point to Clemens having the better season when you use metrics independent of team accomplishments.

[IlliniAmy]

You can make a case for either.

 

Thank you. That's been my point all along.

[series65cubsfan]

You can make a case for either.

 

Thank you. That's been my point all along.

 

I realize I haven't contributed to this thread at all, but after 41 pages, this is the conclusion? :wink:

[wolf stansson]

I think K-Town is on his way to stab IMB, Vance, and gus dog right now, so that should bring some exciting closure to the thread. Unfortunately they live far away from each other, so it may take a while.

[wolf stansson]

Now, I have to go teach a group of 8th graders about forshadowing. Good day.

Let me guess...To Kill A Mockingbird? Or just a lesson on forshadowing in general? Good times english class.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Now, I have to go teach a group of 8th graders about forshadowing. Good day.

Let me guess...To Kill A Mockingbird? Or just a lesson on forshadowing in general? Good times english class.

 

Actually, I was using a short story from the literature text called the "The Landlady." They've re-written the curriculum this year and it all follows genres. For this unit, we're in mystery stories.

 

The one draw back is the textbook does not follow the new model curriculum, so I'm constantly looking for outside resources. With the current state of things in New Orleans and the daunting task of trying to enroll the evacuees in schools, it's been really hard to get any help from the state regarding this right now.

 

Geez...that was long and off topic.

[IlliniAmy]

You can make a case for either.

 

Thank you. That's been my point all along.

 

I realize I haven't contributed to this thread at all, but after 41 pages, this is the conclusion? :wink:

 

8)

 

I like your style.

I'm just defending against the "Carpenter doesn't deserve it" theories. Either candidate could justifiably win it....which means either candidate "should" win it.

[SeldomSeen]

Clearly, Dontrelle should win it, giving this thread it's truly appropriate closure.

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

Clearly, Dontrelle should win it, giving this thread it's truly appropriate closure.

 

Sadly, Dontrelle has pitched himself right back into the Cy Young race and should be considered (not favored... yet) in most discussions. But I see your point.

[K-Town]

I think K-Town is on his way to stab IMB, Vance, and gus dog right now, so that should bring some exciting closure to the thread. Unfortunately they live far away from each other, so it may take a while.

 

This post is ridiculous, and pretty classless, if you ask me. I haven't said a harsh word in the entire 41 pages of this thread.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I think K-Town is on his way to stab IMB, Vance, and gus dog right now, so that should bring some exciting closure to the thread. Unfortunately they live far away from each other, so it may take a while.

 

This post is ridiculous, and pretty classless, if you ask me. I haven't said a harsh word in the entire 41 pages of this thread.

 

It was a joke man, and from a fellow Cards fan at that. I'm just glad I was spared. 8)

[K-Town]

I think K-Town is on his way to stab IMB, Vance, and gus dog right now, so that should bring some exciting closure to the thread. Unfortunately they live far away from each other, so it may take a while.

 

This post is ridiculous, and pretty classless, if you ask me. I haven't said a harsh word in the entire 41 pages of this thread.

 

It was a joke man, and from a fellow Cards fan at that. I'm just glad I was spared. 8)

 

I'm aware that it's a Cards fan. I still think it's in poor taste to talk about "stabbing" people.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Thankfully, I'm still alive. I know IMB was still alive last night. Hopefully, he's still ok. :lol:

[imb]

I'm fine. I took the proactive approach of punching everyone I saw last night in the jaw. Better safe then sorry. (if you're unsure of who I am, I'll be the guy punching jaws)

[vaball]

I'm fine. I took the proactive approach of punching everyone I saw last night in the jaw. Better safe then sorry. (if you're unsure of who I am, I'll be the guy punching jaws)

 

Ah, the good ol' preemptive strike.

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

I'm fine. I took the proactive approach of punching everyone I saw last night in the jaw. Better safe then sorry. (if you're unsure of who I am, I'll be the guy punching jaws)

 

Ah, the good ol' preemptive strike.

 

I always followed the "shoot first, ask questions later" philosophy. But punching jaws might save me some prison time. Thankfully, no one was after me last night.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I just had a couple of large balloons filled with dog crap waiting to pelt anyone who tried to enter my premises.

[gus_dog]

I made it too...., although I felt if someone was staring a hole right through my screen name!

[indifferent]

I made it too...., although I felt if someone was staring a hole right through my screen name!

 

:lol: Did you have sweat dripping on your keyboard?

[gus_dog]

Yes you can....if you force the other team to go to their bullpen first, you've got a better chance of winning. It's like a game of chicken and Carpenter is much better at it than Clemens (this year).

 

By the way, your comment works in the reverse. The other team can't beat you if you don't allow them to score any runs. :wink:

 

Um, no. You can't win if you don't score. You can pitch 50 straight scoreless innings, but it means nothing if you're team can't score. You cannot win without scoring at least one run. (Negatives are impossible in baseball, even if Ditka is on the mound)

 

I think her point with the "game of chicken" is that if Clemens can hold the other team for another inning or two, then he puts his team in a better position to win in the late innings. In other words, if Clemens holds the other team scoreless into the 9th, then Houston might be able to "play for a run", by bunting a guy over or something, and win the game with one run. As it stands, Houston's bullpen gives up a couple of runs, and Houston is forced to play for a big inning late in the game, sometimes.

 

It's nitpicking a little, but it's not completely irrelevant.

 

No, it's nitpicking alot, and the fact that such scenarios are even brought into the argument illustrates how tenuous the argument is.

 

I'm done too.

 

Have a nice day, everyone. :D

 

nitpicking? With that empty accusation, it's no wonder you're done. Have a nice afternoon.

 

Empty accusation???? What the hades is that?

 

Actually, it was K-town's 'accusation', and I just agreed and emphasized.

 

Really, I think it was more of a personal observation. No offence intended.

 

Finally, I do not recall anyone on the Clemens side of this argument trying to devalue Chris Carpenter's accomplishments. Nobody. Most of the devaluing I observed in this thread was certain folks trying to devalue Clemens' accomplishments. I also don't think anyone wrote that Carpenter was not deserving. Quite the contrary - he is deserving. I think the consensus was pretty much that Clemens was more deserving. It also seems that there was pretty much a consensus that Chris Carpenter will win it, that is if the voters vote the way they usually do.

 

JMHO.

[gus_dog]

I made it too...., although I felt if someone was staring a hole right through my screen name!

 

:lol: Did you have sweat dripping on your keyboard?

 

No, but my keys were rattling.

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

No, but my keys were rattling.

 

I think there's a pill you can take for that.