rothschild

[brfahey]

I may have missed a discussion but here goes. A guy who seems to be escaping criticism (and has since he arrived several years ago) is Rothschild. There seems to be little development and growth of the pitchers as pitchers. Prior arrived as a fully realized starter. But no growth at all with Wood, the bullpen has been very uneven and the staff as a staff does not throw strikes consistently. The staff has no identity as a staff like Atlanta's (pitch to the outside corner). I probably wouldn't be writing this if I hadn't heard more than once (from Stone pre-sour grapes, and from Hughes and Santo) that Rothschild is one of the best in the business. Just surprised that he and the hitting instructors for that matter have taken little or no flak.

[Tracer Bullet]

I don't understand either. I remember reading in a number of places (not just Cub-biased, like our announcers) that he's a great pitching coach. But you're right, either this staff is terrible and he's doing all he can to get them to pitch as well as they are (unlikely) or he hasn't really helped our young staff mature in his time here (more likely, imo).

 

Of course, other than Mazzone & Mike Maddux, you don't hear much about pitching coaches. So he might be just as good as anyone else out there (other than those 2). It might be that he, like Dusty, isn't that good with young players.

[minnesotacubsfan]

I may have missed a discussion but here goes. A guy who seems to be escaping criticism (and has since he arrived several years ago) is Rothschild. There seems to be little development and growth of the pitchers as pitchers. Prior arrived as a fully realized starter. But no growth at all with Wood, the bullpen has been very uneven and the staff as a staff does not throw strikes consistently. The staff has no identity as a staff like Atlanta's (pitch to the outside corner). I probably wouldn't be writing this if I hadn't heard more than once (from Stone pre-sour grapes, and from Hughes and Santo) that Rothschild is one of the best in the business. Just surprised that he and the hitting instructors for that matter have taken little or no flak.

 

FIRE HIM. I AM SOO SICK OF HIM BEING SO STUCK IN THE MUD. WOOD IS THE BIGGEST REASON I WANT HIM GONE, HE HAS ALLOWED WOOD TO CONTINUE TO RESIST CAHNGE, AND HE CANT DEVELOP A BULLPEN TO SAVE HIS LIFE.

[10man]

I used to think highly of Larry, but pitching performance in the last two years has made me surmise that Rothschild is overrated.

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

I used to think highly of Larry, but pitching performance in the last two years has made me surmise that Rothschild is overrated.

 

Ditto. Anyone that either can't see the flaw in Wood's form, or allows him to continue pitching that way is not someone I want handling our young guns. We have three guys who could be completely dominant in Wood, Prior, and Zambrano. But instead we're fighting to keep them off the DL. Oh how I would love to have Mazzone here for just one full season. And I wish Farnsworth were here for it.

 

If you ask me, the Trib needs to clean house. And I mean everyone on that coaching staff. Start from scratch. Because it's become apparent that these coaches aren't going to change, therefore, the Cubs playing style isn't going to change.

[katway]

Rothschild has been overhyped as a pitching coach. He has never really had extended success with pitching staffs. He had a good year with the Reds in the early 90s and was the benefactor of the Marlin's spending sprees for Al Leiter and Kevin Brown in 1997. Not to say that he is not a good pitching coach, but he doesn't seem to have the record of a great pitching coach by any means.

[EricG]

fire the entire coaching staff along with Dusty. maybe keep Dick Pole around (his name makes me laugh)

[YearofDaCubs]

fire the entire coaching staff along with Dusty. maybe keep Dick Pole around (his name makes me laugh)

Agreed. They should all get fired.

[brfahey]

fire the entire coaching staff along with Dusty. maybe keep Dick Pole around (his name makes me laugh)

Agreed. They should all get fired.

 

That's probably the move to make. I didn't mean to make this a fire Rothschild thread; I was just surprised at the lack of criticism he has received in the media. It shouldn't surprise me given the single digit IQ of the media, who generally have to be told what the story is and then they all follow that.

[snoodmonger]

If you want to know why Rothschild has escaped criticism, ask Scoop Jackson.

[sonofsamiam]

I agree completely. Is there a single Cubs pitcher that hasn't regressed under Rothschild's tenure? Even Z has taken a step back.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Neyer received a question about Rothschild in his chat today.

 

Rudi (Lincoln Park, Chicago): Prior to this year, I've heard many different baseball people refer to Larry Rothschild as one of the top pitching coaches in the game. Watching this 2005 Cubs pitching staff fail miserably in the "Bean Count" categories, I sit here in misery wondering why everyone wants to blame Hendry and Baker. Is Rothschild's reputation really that untouchable based on one World Series ring?

 

Rob Neyer: I've noticed that not many pitching coaches are able to keep their reputations intact for more than two or three seasons. There's Leo Mazzone, and . . . Leo Mazzone. Oh, and Leo Mazzone. Hey, it's a tough job.

[Soul]

The only guy I can think of who has been better under Rothschild is Glendon Rusch. And maybe Ryan Dempster, although he wasn't too bad before his injury problems and he was a starter, so I'm not sure much credit can be taken there.

 

Rusch. The man who went 1-13 for the Brewers revived his career under Rothschild. And for this, the guy is as slippery as a mobster?

 

The guy has been junk. You know who was much better? Phil Reagan. Bring him back. He did so much more in 1998 with oh, sooooooo much less.

[jjgman21]

what, you guys don't like the refusal to come inside at all, even for effect, late in a tight ballgame?

your tired of seeing 0-2 fastballs right down the middle sailing over the fence?

you mean you're fed up with pitchers getting ahead, then missing badly until the count is 3-2?

are you saying the higher than high fastball has become more predictable than the tides?

you haven't had enough of pitchers and other weak hitters getting huge hits against the Cubs because they see too many fastballs?

 

I disagree with the assessment of lack of philosophy. I think Larry has some very bad philosophies, especially when it comes to pitch sequences.

 

Michael Barrett catches alot of heat for pitches that Larry Rothschild calls.

[minnesotacubsfan]

what, you guys don't like the refusal to come inside at all, even for effect, late in a tight ballgame?

your tired of seeing 0-2 fastballs right down the middle sailing over the fence?

you mean you're fed up with pitchers getting ahead, then missing badly until the count is 3-2?

are you saying the higher than high fastball has become more predictable than the tides?

you haven't had enough of pitchers and other weak hitters getting huge hits against the Cubs because they see too many fastballs?

 

I disagree with the assessment of lack of philosophy. I think Larry has some very bad philosophies, especially when it comes to pitch sequences.

 

Michael Barrett catches alot of heat for pitches that Larry Rothschild calls.

 

 

I dont think the man knows how to pitch, much less when and what to pitch, anymore now then if he ever did.

[Electron Blue]

what, you guys don't like the refusal to come inside at all, even for effect, late in a tight ballgame?

your tired of seeing 0-2 fastballs right down the middle sailing over the fence?

you mean you're fed up with pitchers getting ahead, then missing badly until the count is 3-2?

are you saying the higher than high fastball has become more predictable than the tides?

you haven't had enough of pitchers and other weak hitters getting huge hits against the Cubs because they see too many fastballs?

 

I disagree with the assessment of lack of philosophy. I think Larry has some very bad philosophies, especially when it comes to pitch sequences.

 

Michael Barrett catches alot of heat for pitches that Larry Rothschild calls.

 

I don't how much of that is Larry's fault, and I don't know how much other teams struggle with the same things. But everything you've listed you has *definitely* been a problem for us all year.

[neely crenshaw]

rothschild should catch a lot of heat. i guarantee that all the pitching moves that dusty gets creamed on are coming from larry. your pitching caoch knows pitching(he's supposed too), he makes the decisions that deal with that.

[anemic offense]

I and several others have metioned it before, but these threads are long overdue. Every SINGLE year Rothschild has been here we've had an underwhelming bullpen. Not to say all of their woes should be attributed to Larry, but we've had quite a bit of talent (not this year) in the pen for most of his tenure. He has been an utter failure with turning around pitchers, with Farns being a glaring example. Kyle did bring some of his troubles onto himself (excessive partying, etc) but its hard to think him having a sub 2.5 ERA both before and after Rothschild was PC is a coincidence. He and the rest of Baker's cohorts need to get the axe ASAP. Except for Speir that is, he's done a pretty good job at 3B, imo.

[gus_dog]

Except for Speir that is, he's done a pretty good job at 3B, imo.

 

Really, I agree with this sentence. Remember Wavin' Wendell? No? Well, thank God for Speier - he has gone pretty much unnoticed, which for a 3rd base coach, is a good thing. He's done a fine job.

[AcesHigh]

The thing about Rothschild that bugs me is the amount of walks all of our pitchers give up. All of our young guys(Novoa, Wellmeyer, Wuertz, etc.) seem to throw hard, but can never consistently find the strike zone. They seem to pitch for K's too much. I don't know if that is a team(Rothschild) philosophy, but it bugs me that these young guys don't pitch to contact.

[danonwaveland]

CubFanNotBudMan wrote:

 

"fire the entire coaching staff along with Dusty. maybe keep Dick Pole around (his name makes me laugh)"

 

We could fire him and, like the Fisk and Pesky Poles in Boston, name the left field fair/foul pole the Dick Pole. Then, we keep the good name and lose the ineffective coach.

[Ram1380]

CubFanNotBudMan wrote:

 

"fire the entire coaching staff along with Dusty. maybe keep Dick Pole around (his name makes me laugh)"

 

We could fire him and, like the Fisk and Pesky Poles in Boston, name the left field fair/foul pole the Dick Pole. Then, we keep the good name and lose the ineffective coach.

 

 

 

:shock:

 

 

 

White Sox fans would wet themselves, beat up umpires, 1st base coaches, and each other, to be the first "genius" to take a pot shot at something like that.

[frostwyrm]

I have lost faith in Rothschild, but Dusty most probably deserves some blame for health issues. Prior and Wood were nos. 1 and 2 in the majors in pitches per start in 2003, and Dusty rode them especially hard during the stretch run. They have never been the same since then. People will point to this for many years to come and wonder if Dusty ruined these guys.

[adamb0719]

Question that maybe was already stated

 

In situations where they bullpen is being used, who makes the call on who to bring in-Dusty or Larry?

Those times when Remmy was used inappropriately could those have been bad calls by Larry instead of Dusty?