Ryne Sandberg's HOF speech

[The Voice of Reason]

Sorry, Sandberg sounded like a bitter old man. "IN MY DAY THINGS WERE BETTER BLAHBLAHBLAH"

 

I bet you had decendants at Gettysburg in 1863 who wined that Lincoln sounded like a bitter old man.

 

As HOF speeches go, Sandberg's was one of the best.

[rocket]

Sorry, Sandberg sounded like a bitter old man. "IN MY DAY THINGS WERE BETTER BLAHBLAHBLAH"

 

I bet you had decendants at Gettysburg in 1863 who wined that Lincoln sounded like a bitter old man.

 

As HOF speeches go, Sandberg's was one of the best.

 

Yeah, because Ryno's speech really compares to the Gettysburg Address.

 

I have no idea what point you're even trying to make, other than trying to be a huge jerk.

[CuseCubFan69]

IMO every generation thinks that they did it the right way. I remember reading about older players complaining during Sandbergs time that they did it the right way and that the current generation of players didn't have what it takes. Same story different decade.

[The Voice of Reason]

Sorry, Sandberg sounded like a bitter old man. "IN MY DAY THINGS WERE BETTER BLAHBLAHBLAH"

 

I bet you had decendants at Gettysburg in 1863 who wined that Lincoln sounded like a bitter old man.

 

As HOF speeches go, Sandberg's was one of the best.

 

Yeah, because Ryno's speech really compares to the Gettysburg Address.

 

I have no idea what point you're even trying to make, other than trying to be a huge jerk.

 

As previously stated, my point was " As Hall Fame speeches go, Sandberg's was one of the best."

 

An opinion shared by almost all baseball experts and pundits and the HOF's in attendance who heard Ryno's speech.

[Chocolate Milk]

IMO every generation thinks that they did it the right way. I remember reading about older players complaining during Sandbergs time that they did it the right way and that the current generation of players didn't have what it takes. Same story different decade.

 

Very true. Old timers always think everything was better back when they were in their prime.

[sandberg23]

I just got to watch his speech yesterday. I loved it. Just about everything he said is the reason why he's my favorite player. No player will ever replace him to me. I wish more players had his attitude and pride.

[imb]

Sorry, Sandberg sounded like a bitter old man. "IN MY DAY THINGS WERE BETTER BLAHBLAHBLAH"

 

I bet you had decendants at Gettysburg in 1863 who wined that Lincoln sounded like a bitter old man.

 

As HOF speeches go, Sandberg's was one of the best.

 

Yeah, because Ryno's speech really compares to the Gettysburg Address.

 

I have no idea what point you're even trying to make, other than trying to be a huge jerk.

 

I bet when Herbie Hancock signed the declaration of independance on abraham nunez's hat, that you're grandpappy threw a fit!

[ConstableRabbit]

Better? In what way? Sorry, but as much as I love Ryno, I think his comments do come off as a bit bitter and smack of old fogeyism. Back in Ryno's day, it was the players of the 60s complaining about these modern overpaid, underappreciative primadonnas taking the game for granted. You can find that sort of carping from just about any era of baseball.

 

Let's take a look at baseball in Sandberg's day...

 

One dimensional sluggers? In Sandberg's day you had Steve Balboni, Pete Incaviglia, Rob Deer, Cory Snyder, and Ron Kittle to name a few. Home runs weren't as plentiful back then (the parks were bigger for one thing), but these guys didn't do much else but hit home runs.

 

Steroids and other drugs? How about Steve Howe, Darryl Strawberry, Dwight Gooden and Darrel Porter. These guys were ritual drug abusers. While in this era you have the congressional steroid hearings involving some of the biggest stars of the game like Mark McGwire and Sammy Sosa, in Ryno's day (1985 to be exact), you had the Pittsburgh drug trial involving some of the biggest stars of the game like Keith Hernandez and Tim Raines. Cocaine was the drug of choice amongst players in the 80s.

 

Greed? Labor strife? Yep, it exsisted back then too. There was a strike in '81 that stole a chunk of the season (a year in which Ryno got his first cup of coffee at the big level) and one in '94 when Ryno was still active. Ask anyone from 1994 after the season was cancelled if baseball was better back in those days.

 

Then, as now, you'll find players that couldn't bunt, couldn't move the runner over, that failed to plate a runner from third with less than two outs. You'll find players making baserunning gaffes and bone-headed plays. You'll even find players who always looked for the little red light on the nearest camera.

 

I'm not saying baseball back then was worse, just different. The same stuff that Ryno complains about today's game, existed back then. There were some things I liked better about baseball in the 80s. For one, I kind of miss the speed aspect of the 80s' game that doesn't exist now. Also, I think there was a little more competitive balance back then vis-à-vis the smaller markets. On other hand, there are things better about today's game. Is anyone going to miss artificial turf or cookie cutter stadiums?

 

Sorry, but Ryno is barking up the wrong tree here. We all like players who respect the game and give it there all, but there has never been a time in baseball history when the game was truly "pure"...and, given human nature, there never will be. In fact, the one guy who hustled on every play and seemingly played the game the right way, disgraced the game by his later actions and got banned from baseball for life.

 

Good post. Plenty of today's players could stand to hear Ryno's speech, but then, so could many of his contemporaries. He's talking about the "Phillie Way," the principles drilled into him as a youngster in the Philadelphia system.

 

Great Post.

 

I would like to say something on my own, however.

I know that it has become fashionable to bash Sosa (whether after the corked bat incident, the clubhouse leaving, suspected steroid use, or what have you) and I don't want to get into whether it was right/wrong, or any of that, because that's a whole new topic. However, whether you want to believe it or not, Sosa and his homeruns were the thing in this city for many years. His on field antics, as well as kissing routine at the dugout camera made him one of the most popular players in baseball, if not sports. I don't really think I'm too far off with that statement.

 

Now think about this:

 

Had Sandberg started his career a few years earlier and retired earlier, in say, 2001, and made the same statements bashing sluggers and so-called one-dimensional players, (including Sosa in all but name), would we still be praising his speech, or would we call him jealous of the outstanding accomplishments and attention Sosa, McGwire and others had recieved?

[KatJ]

I'm only 23, so I didn't get a chance to see baseball in it's purest form. But I think back when Ryno played, it was more of a game and less of a business than it is now. I think it was better back then. Now it's more about money.

 

I do think the speech overly romanticized things, but I also understand Ryno's frustration with players dogging it. I think that happens in all generations, in all professions. That's why there IS a HOF to begin with - it's a place where those who are talented and who make the most of their talents get a place to be recognized.

 

I understand where you (and Ryno) are coming from re: respect and love of the game. I also grant that a lot of it is marketing (MLB is a HUGE entertainment francise) and money. But there are still some players out there who aren't about the money. Take Aaron Boone for example. He told the truth about violating his contract with the Yankees when he injured himself playing basketball; this year, he took a three-quarter of a million dollar paycut to re-sign with the Indians. Why? Because of loyalty - repaying the loyalty they showed him during his horrific slump.

 

Unfortunately, his attitude doesn't run in the family... at least, his elder brother sure doesn't have it.

[sandberg23]

...Had Sandberg started his career a few years earlier and retired earlier, in say, 2001, and made the same statements bashing sluggers and so-called one-dimensional players, (including Sosa in all but name), would we still be praising his speech, or would we call him jealous of the outstanding accomplishments and attention Sosa, McGwire and others had recieved?

 

Sandberg retired first in 1994 and then again after the 1997 season. I don't know where the 2001 came from in your post.

[imb]

I think he meant that Ryno would have been inducted in 2001 had his career begun a few years earlier.

[sandberg23]

I think he meant that Ryno would have been inducted in 2001 had his career begun a few years earlier.

 

Ah...possibly...but this is what threw me off -

...and retired earlier, in say, 2001...

[CubbieRich]

McGwire had zero mobility and though he wasn't really a liability at first...he certainly didn't shine. Same with Sosa and every year since it seems he's gotten sloppier on defense.

 

McGwire didn't have much range; I do believe he was better defensively than you give him credit for, but I'm going to let it go at that. It's too hard to quantify defensive play, and I don't have the time to get together and watch old tapes with you. At any rate, he certainly didn't suffer a defensive decline during or after the 1998 season beyond what you would expect from any 34-year-old ballplayer with bad feet.

 

And I haven't seen this gradual decline in Sammy's defense. He was always a guy who could occasionally make the spectacular catch, and also miss a routine fly ball. I don't think anything's changed there.

 

Yes, his arm isn't what it once was. In his prime he had an arm like Clemente. He still throws like a former Pirate outfielder; unfortunately the former Pirate outfielder he now throws like is Omar Moreno. But as I said before, that didn't happen until his offensive skills were also in decline in 2002 or 2003. So it can hardly be said that it was the result of too much focus on hitting.

 

McGwire was an average first baseman. His range was nil and could barely reach down to grab throws in the dirt. His throwing was erratic and for not the bias of St. Louis official scoring, have numerous throwing errors. He made Eddie Murray look like a Gold Glover by comparison

 

Sosa never had the arm of a Roberto Clemente. Sosa's arm was comparable to a Larry Waker or Raul Mondesi. Ichiro has a better arm and accuracy than Sammy ever had.

[ConstableRabbit]

I think he meant that Ryno would have been inducted in 2001 had his career begun a few years earlier.

 

Ah...possibly...but this is what threw me off -

...and retired earlier, in say, 2001...

 

Yeah, I forgot that he had already retired in '94. Confusing. Anyway, what do you think the reaction would've been?

[sandberg23]

I think he meant that Ryno would have been inducted in 2001 had his career begun a few years earlier.

 

Ah...possibly...but this is what threw me off -

...and retired earlier, in say, 2001...

 

Yeah, I forgot that he had already retired in '94. Confusing. Anyway, what do you think the reaction would've been?

 

I think he would have been elected sooner had he not come out of retirement. I remember hearing many in baseball have that same sentiment. But, on a purely selfish level, I'm glad he came back and played for 2 more years - it was 2 more years I was able to watch him...I thought he was great then so I can only imagine how great he was in his prime. During the induction, someone said that Sandberg got in simply based on his prime years because from 33 and on, his numbers weren't that great. So, had he stayed retired the first time, I believe he would have gotten in sooner. Though I believe he should have been inducted on his first ballot as did those announcing the induction on television.

 

I also think Sandberg was kinda stuck between eras...though I'm not totally sure because I didn't watch baseball in the 80s. It seems to me, he was a doubles hitter who could do the little things and had speed but he turned into a HR hitter...just as the league eventually did. So, I guess I'm saying his playing time overlapped two different times - one in which bunting and running was important and one in which HR were important. I think he was a better overall hitter in the 80s than in the late 90s so maybe had he stopped playing in the early 90s that would have boded better for him to get into the Hall not only sooner, but also quicker in terms of tries on the ballot.

 

But, all just my opinion - and a biased one at that!

[GaryWoods]

I also think Sandberg was kinda stuck between eras...though I'm not totally sure because I didn't watch baseball in the 80s. It seems to me, he was a doubles hitter who could do the little things and had speed but he turned into a HR hitter...just as the league eventually did.

 

Sandberg started out as a speedy slap-hitter who was strong enough to occasionally lift a line drive into the basket for a home run. At the time it seemed fitting that he came over with Larry Bowa because it really looked like he was going to develop into the same king of hitter, but with a little mroe power.

 

It was Jim Frey who changed history when he took Sandberg aside in the spring of 1984 and said, "You're a big, strong guy; why don't you try to drive the ball a little more?" Without that advice, Ryno would have to buy a ticket to get into the Hall of Fame.

[GaryWoods]

McGwire ........... made Eddie Murray look like a Gold Glover by comparison

 

Eddie Murray was a 3-time Gold Glover.

[ConstableRabbit]

I think he meant that Ryno would have been inducted in 2001 had his career begun a few years earlier.

 

Ah...possibly...but this is what threw me off -

...and retired earlier, in say, 2001...

 

Yeah, I forgot that he had already retired in '94. Confusing. Anyway, what do you think the reaction would've been?

 

I think he would have been elected sooner had he not come out of retirement. I remember hearing many in baseball have that same sentiment. But, on a purely selfish level, I'm glad he came back and played for 2 more years - it was 2 more years I was able to watch him...I thought he was great then so I can only imagine how great he was in his prime. During the induction, someone said that Sandberg got in simply based on his prime years because from 33 and on, his numbers weren't that great. So, had he stayed retired the first time, I believe he would have gotten in sooner. Though I believe he should have been inducted on his first ballot as did those announcing the induction on television.

 

I also think Sandberg was kinda stuck between eras...though I'm not totally sure because I didn't watch baseball in the 80s. It seems to me, he was a doubles hitter who could do the little things and had speed but he turned into a HR hitter...just as the league eventually did. So, I guess I'm saying his playing time overlapped two different times - one in which bunting and running was important and one in which HR were important. I think he was a better overall hitter in the 80s than in the late 90s so maybe had he stopped playing in the early 90s that would have boded better for him to get into the Hall not only sooner, but also quicker in terms of tries on the ballot.

 

But, all just my opinion - and a biased one at that!

 

The question I was proposing wasn't whether or not he would have gotten in in 2001 if his career had started earlier, I was just throwing that out for the purpose of discussion. What I was asking was, had Sandberg gotten into the hall of fame in 2001 instead of 2005 for some reason, and come out criticising the homerun hitters with a near direct reference to Sosa, when he was at the top of his game and very popular, what do you think the reaction would have been in comparison to now, where the slugger is always under suspicion and Sosa has fallen out of grace?

The question is: would we still be saying it was a great speech?

[gus_dog]

The question is: would we still be saying it was a great speech?[/b]

 

Unequivocably, yes, at least I would.

 

I was never a big fan of showboating Sammy (and showboating in general).

 

Sure, I'm a Cub fan, so I appreciated what he did for the Cubs (e.g. offencive production), but if he would have done it with a little class, I would have been a real exhuberant fan of his.

 

As it was, I was glad to see him go when his production fell off.

[sandberg23]

The question is: would we still be saying it was a great speech?[/b]

 

Unequivocably, yes, at least I would.

 

I was never a big fan of showboating Sammy (and showboating in general).

 

Sure, I'm a Cub fan, so I appreciated what he did for the Cubs (e.g. offencive production), but if he would have done it with a little class, I would have been a real exhuberant fan of his.

 

As it was, I was glad to see him go when his production fell off.

 

I, too, believe it still would have been a great speech. I was not a big fan of Sosa's nor was I a fan of his showboating and antics. I appreciated the production he provided for the team, but he could have acted differently about it in my opinion. I think Sandberg's speech was good because it exemplified how I feel the game should be played and exemplified how he played the game - the reason why he's my favorite player. I liked how he went about his business on and off the field. I don't care when he would have given the speech, I would have liked it and agreed with it regardless. Just my opinion.

[dhaab]

I'm not trying to flame here because I am new to this board, but I find it rather odd that no sports writers in Chicago have ever written about the controversy surrounding Sandberg quitting in the middle of the 1994 season. Don't get me wrong, I always loved watching Ryno play and was quite sure he would be a first ballot hall of famer...before 1994.

 

IMO, Ryno quit on his teammates in the middle of a horrible season. That '94 Cubs team was a very bad team and was in dead last at the time he quit. They obviously had no post season hopes whatsoever.

 

I realize that Sandberg had some personal problems he wanted to straighten out in his life, but how many other athletes in sports have to endure problems in their personal lives while they continue to play? How many of us every day working stiffs have to live through personal tragedies, yet continue to go to work every day through it all?

 

IMO, the fact that Sandberg quit on his team like he did made him lose out on being a first ballot Hall of Famer. And the fact that he stood up there on the podium the other day and talked about how he had such a huge respect for the game seemed a bit over the top to me. Anyone who quits in the middle of a season when his team is in last place can't have that much respect for the game.

 

Sorry if this pisses people off, but his speech seemed a bit self righteous to me.

[gus_dog]

IMO, Ryno quit on his teammates in the middle of a horrible season. That '94 Cubs team was a very bad team and was in dead last at the time he quit. They obviously had no post season hopes whatsoever.

 

I realize that Sandberg had some personal problems he wanted to straighten out in his life, but how many other athletes in sports have to endure problems in their personal lives while they continue to play? How many of us every day working stiffs have to live through personal tragedies, yet continue to go to work every day through it all?

 

IMO, the fact that Sandberg quit on his team like he did made him lose out on being a first ballot Hall of Famer. And the fact that he stood up there on the podium the other day and talked about how he had such a huge respect for the game seemed a bit over the top to me. Anyone who quits in the middle of a season when his team is in last place can't have that much respect for the game.

 

I disagree.

 

First of all, I think it is self rightous for you to write like you know what was going on in Sandberg's personal life, AND to expect him to be a certain way (I guess, how you or others might have been). Really, how can you preach about what he did or how he should have acted unless you're him, going through the same things he went through? The answer is that you cannot. Different people handle situations differently - it's called being human individuals. There are also many people who take time off to deal with their personal problems, he just happens to be one of those people. Sorry that he did not measure up to your expectations, but I doubt he's losing sleep over it.

 

Second, you could look at his respect for the game a little bit differently. Did you think maybe he left during 1994 BECAUSE of his respect for the game? He wasn't able to give his best effort, because of his personal problems. This half-hearted approach was not good enough, and he had to take time off to deal with his problems. This could be seen as SHOWING respect for the game, not the other way around.

 

There are two sides to every coin.

 

Are you the same dhaab that posts at STLTODAY?

[CubbieRich]

IMO, Ryno quit on his teammates in the middle of a horrible season. That '94 Cubs team was a very bad team and was in dead last at the time he quit. They obviously had no post season hopes whatsoever.

 

I realize that Sandberg had some personal problems he wanted to straighten out in his life, but how many other athletes in sports have to endure problems in their personal lives while they continue to play? How many of us every day working stiffs have to live through personal tragedies, yet continue to go to work every day through it all?

 

IMO, the fact that Sandberg quit on his team like he did made him lose out on being a first ballot Hall of Famer. And the fact that he stood up there on the podium the other day and talked about how he had such a huge respect for the game seemed a bit over the top to me. Anyone who quits in the middle of a season when his team is in last place can't have that much respect for the game.

 

I disagree.

 

First of all, I think it is self rightous for you to write like you know what was going on in Sandberg's personal life, AND to expect him to be a certain way (I guess, how you or others might have been). Really, how can you preach about what he did or how he should have acted unless you're him, going through the same things he went through? The answer is that you cannot. Different people handle situations differently - it's called being human individuals. There are also many people who take time off to deal with their personal problems, he just happens to be one of those people. Sorry that he did not measure up to your expectations, but I doubt he's losing sleep over it.

 

Second, you could look at his respect for the game a little bit differently. Did you think maybe he left during 1994 BECAUSE of his respect for the game? He wasn't able to give his best effort, because of his personal problems. This half-hearted approach was not good enough, and he had to take time off to deal with his problems. This could be seen as SHOWING respect for the game, not the other way around.

 

There are two sides to every coin.

 

Are you the same dhaab that posts at STLTODAY?

 

I admire Ryno for walking away from the game to take care of his kids and trying to get his personal life in order. His wife cheated on him with Raffy and that had to be a very hard thing to deal with. People chastize ballplayers for sticking around too long or simply drawing a paycheck, Ryno never did. He respected the fans and the game too much.

 

In contrast let's look at Mark McGwire. He had no problem cashing the Cardinals paycheck when he hit .187 his final year and couldn't see the ball. He cheated on his wife and lied to everyone about taking andro. He has turned his back completely on Cardinal fans and the city of St. Louis. He is a loser.

 

I'll take Ryno.

[The Voice of Reason]

dhaab wrote

 

I'm not trying to flame here because I am new to this board, but I find it rather odd that no sports writers in Chicago have ever written about the controversy surrounding Sandberg quitting in the middle of the 1994 season. Don't get me wrong, I always loved watching Ryno play and was quite sure he would be a first ballot hall of famer...before 1994.

 

IMO, Ryno quit on his teammates in the middle of a horrible season. That '94 Cubs team was a very bad team and was in dead last at the time he quit. They obviously had no post season hopes whatsoever.

 

I realize that Sandberg had some personal problems he wanted to straighten out in his life, but how many other athletes in sports have to endure problems in their personal lives while they continue to play? How many of us every day working stiffs have to live through personal tragedies, yet continue to go to work every day through it all?

 

IMO, the fact that Sandberg quit on his team like he did made him lose out on being a first ballot Hall of Famer. And the fact that he stood up there on the podium the other day and talked about how he had such a huge respect for the game seemed a bit over the top to me. Anyone who quits in the middle of a season when his team is in last place can't have that much respect for the game.

 

Sorry if this pisses people off, but his speech seemed a bit self righteous to me.[/quote]

 

__________________________________________________________

 

It's obvious you are a Cardinal fan and probably a McGwire supporter which may explain why you didn't like Ryno taking Steroid users to task. Are you just as concerned about the lack of respect for the game that McGwire showed during his "testimony" before congress?

[bukie]

I'm not trying to flame here because I am new to this board, but I find it rather odd that no sports writers in Chicago have ever written about the controversy surrounding Sandberg quitting in the middle of the 1994 season. Don't get me wrong, I always loved watching Ryno play and was quite sure he would be a first ballot hall of famer...before 1994.

 

IMO, Ryno quit on his teammates in the middle of a horrible season. That '94 Cubs team was a very bad team and was in dead last at the time he quit. They obviously had no post season hopes whatsoever.

 

I realize that Sandberg had some personal problems he wanted to straighten out in his life, but how many other athletes in sports have to endure problems in their personal lives while they continue to play? How many of us every day working stiffs have to live through personal tragedies, yet continue to go to work every day through it all?

 

IMO, the fact that Sandberg quit on his team like he did made him lose out on being a first ballot Hall of Famer. And the fact that he stood up there on the podium the other day and talked about how he had such a huge respect for the game seemed a bit over the top to me. Anyone who quits in the middle of a season when his team is in last place can't have that much respect for the game.

 

Sorry if this pisses people off, but his speech seemed a bit self righteous to me.

 

What controversy? There was a strike in 1994 that ended the season in August. He retired during the strike from that and personal problems.