Cubs Top 5 Position Player Now

[craig]

1. Pie
    
   -- gap --
    
   
2. Dopirak
   
3. Harvey
    
   -- gap --
    
   
4. Cedeno
   
5. Murton
    
   Overall, there's a lot of depth and some true impact guys if they overcome certain flaws in their game. Of course, that isn't as common as we'd like.

 

Tim, you've probably discussed this elsewhere. But how is that you still have Dopirak so high? It's his fourth year as a pro, and unlike Harvey it's not the first season that he's faced full-season calibre pitching. At 21 he's not all that young relative to high-A, he's an easy out there (OBP, BA) and has shown little useful power (12 HR's in August isn't very good, no matter how many he might hit in BP). And his defense is a liability.

 

I guess I'd think that if a guy is going to be able to adjust to pitchers who can throw both 90's fastballs and curveballs for strikes, they should have begun to figure that out by their second year in full-season ball.

 

The continues preference for Dopirak at least a gap ahead of Sing is intersting. I assume a major factor in this is age, that Sing is already 24, whereas Dopirak is only 21. But the current performance gap is enormous. Seems to me Dopirak's best and most optimistic hope would be to approach Sing's current AA performance at age 23, two years from now. (He's not going to both get a big jump to AA and raise OPS from .600's to 1.000's next year; either he'll need to do some repeat at Daytona or else repeat WTenn if he ever wants to match Sing's AA competence.) If the absolute best happens, and two years from now Dopirak is as good relative to AA as is Sing, will we then be badly sliding Dopirak because, at 23, he's almost too old to take seriously?

 

I dunno, I think if Dopirak's our #2 position prospect, we're in deep trouble.

[UBlink]

How do you know that Dope, Moore, and Harvey have problems with breaking balls? Have you seen a bunch of their games this year, seen scouting reports, or are you just making an assumption based on the fact that they are power hitters that strike out a bunch?

 

I'm basing that on scouting reports. I haven't seen any of them play. Chief's voice, for example, in regards to Harvey! On Dopirak, I've heard that from a Cub scout 2nd hand (Cub scout said that to friend after last season, friend passed it along...), and from several amateurs who went to several Daytona games this season. On Moore, got observation to that effect from amateur Cub prospect lovers who went to several Daytona games this season, and that was also the scouting impression I seem to recall from the Baseball America writeups.

I'm not sure about Moore, but I've seen both Dopirak and Harvey struggle with sliders low and away.

 

I seem to recall Juan Gonzalez having that same issue in his MVP years, too. :)

[Tim]

1. Pie
    
   -- gap --
    
   
2. Dopirak
   
3. Harvey
    
   -- gap --
    
   
4. Cedeno
   
5. Murton
    
   Overall, there's a lot of depth and some true impact guys if they overcome certain flaws in their game. Of course, that isn't as common as we'd like.

 

Tim, you've probably discussed this elsewhere. But how is that you still have Dopirak so high? It's his fourth year as a pro, and unlike Harvey it's not the first season that he's faced full-season calibre pitching. At 21 he's not all that young relative to high-A, he's an easy out there (OBP, BA) and has shown little useful power (12 HR's in August isn't very good, no matter how many he might hit in BP). And his defense is a liability.

 

I guess I'd think that if a guy is going to be able to adjust to pitchers who can throw both 90's fastballs and curveballs for strikes, they should have begun to figure that out by their second year in full-season ball.

 

The continues preference for Dopirak at least a gap ahead of Sing is intersting. I assume a major factor in this is age, that Sing is already 24, whereas Dopirak is only 21. But the current performance gap is enormous. Seems to me Dopirak's best and most optimistic hope would be to approach Sing's current AA performance at age 23, two years from now. (He's not going to both get a big jump to AA and raise OPS from .600's to 1.000's next year; either he'll need to do some repeat at Daytona or else repeat WTenn if he ever wants to match Sing's AA competence.) If the absolute best happens, and two years from now Dopirak is as good relative to AA as is Sing, will we then be badly sliding Dopirak because, at 23, he's almost too old to take seriously?

 

I dunno, I think if Dopirak's our #2 position prospect, we're in deep trouble.

I should probably put Harvey above Dopirak as he doesn't have the defensive questions. But I don't think there's a player in the system with as much offensive impact potential as Dopirak has. Pie's more complete game puts him at #1, but I don't see anyone in the system that has the potential impact of Dope & Harvey. Murton & Cedeno have risen quite a bit in stature this season, but neither guy projects much all-star potential.

 

While Dope may be less likely to reach the majors than those two, I think he has a much better chance of being an impact player. Thus I put him higher at this point.

[rawaction]

I agree with Tim, except that I put Harvey ahead of Dopirak right now.

 

21 is young for Daytona. I believe 22.4 or so has been the average age for a few seasons in the FSL. Are people just looking at the numbers and discounting Dopirak? What about his improved K rate? What about the fact that he has been a little unlucky on balls in play? And if it's anyone who's power has probably been an anomoly it is Dope. I think we all know he's not a .140 ISOP hitter.

 

And when comparing players, you have to take all things in context. You not only have to take the current year, but career trends and even go back as far as pre-pro. I know the draft is a crapshoot, but there's a reason why Dopirak was a 2nd rounder and Sing a 20th rounder. The raw talent is there. As Tim said, Dopirak is the highest risk, highest reward prospect in the system.

[burnt out cubbie fan]

That's the one thing I can't understand with Dope (his power). When I saw him play last year, it was like a man among boys. He absolutely crushed the ball. I can understand a low average or on base pct but I don't understand where all of the power went.

[TruffleShuffle]

I know the draft is a crapshoot, but there's a reason why Dopirak was a 2nd rounder and Sing a 20th rounder. The raw talent is there.

 

Roy Oswalt was a 20th rounder too... I'd say he has a fair amount of raw talent. Sometimes every team just misses on a guy's potential.

[rawaction]

That's the one thing I can't understand with Dope (his power). When I saw him play last year, it was like a man among boys. He absolutely crushed the ball. I can understand a low average or on base pct but I don't understand where all of the power went.

 

Maybe he's having problems focusing in front of the home folks. Combined with tough hitting conditions (lot of his power to CF and LCF), it's been a tough season. I really don't know though definitively, obviously.

[rawaction]

I know the draft is a crapshoot, but there's a reason why Dopirak was a 2nd rounder and Sing a 20th rounder. The raw talent is there.

 

Roy Oswalt was a 20th rounder too... I'd say he has a fair amount of raw talent. Sometimes every team just misses on a guy's potential.

 

Agreed. But overwhelmingly that's not the norm.

[Outshined_One]

That's the one thing I can't understand with Dope (his power). When I saw him play last year, it was like a man among boys. He absolutely crushed the ball. I can understand a low average or on base pct but I don't understand where all of the power went.

 

Maybe he's having problems focusing in front of the home folks. Combined with tough hitting conditions (lot of his power to CF and LCF), it's been a tough season. I really don't know though definitively, obviously.

 

I'm going to maintain that he's just exhausted since he hasn't had much of a break since the start of last season. Keep in mind that he did play in the Arizona Fall League in the offseason.

[RyCubsFan]

I know the draft is a crapshoot, but there's a reason why Dopirak was a 2nd rounder and Sing a 20th rounder. The raw talent is there.

 

Roy Oswalt was a 20th rounder too... I'd say he has a fair amount of raw talent. Sometimes every team just misses on a guy's potential.

 

Agreed. But overwhelmingly that's not the norm.

 

 

Neither Sandberg or Boggs were early round draft picks either.....

[burnt out cubbie fan]

Yes, but when you look at the majority of the star players in the majors, or the players that were drafted that are in the hall, they came in the first several rounds. There are players that you can pick out that came from the later rounds but that is not the case with most. Remember, players are normally drafted high for a reason. They are viewed to have the best tools and therefore the best possibility of succeeding. There are some players that play above where their tools would normally take them, like Sandberg, but they are not in the majority.

[anemic offense]

I don't know as much about these guys as some of you do, but I fail to see many's fascination with Dope. Yes the guy hit fourty home runs, and yes he hit above 300 las year but...he also had a fairly low OBP while totalling a ridiculous number of Ks. Point is, his hard swinging low thought approach is likely to yield less and less results as he moves up the ladder. So far, if I'm not mistaken, his numbers are TERRIBLE at high A. He also is, from my understadning, an average to poor defender wih below average speed. I don't know about some of you guys, but I feel power is one of the most OVERRATED aspects in baseball. Yes, its important to have power in your lineup, but when a player has to compromise most every facet of his hitting to hit the ball out of the ball park, is he really that good of a power hitter to begin with? Any fool can go up there swinging for the fences but it takes a ballplayer to do it and maintain some level of consistency. He may be quite a bit older, but Sing has shown this ability at EVERY level while fulfilling the aforementioned criteria. Just how some of you can rate Dope ahead of Sing is mindboggling. With that said I bet Dope turns out to be a colossal flop.

[burnt out cubbie fan]

You could go up to the plate and hit out 40 homers in a season?

[RyCubsFan]

Just noticed that Zach Duke and his 4-0 0.92 ERA was a 20th rounder as well. While I agree that such guys are in a small minority, they do make great stories.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

My list is based on Likelihood to Make a Difference at the Big League Level:

 

1. Pie

2. Murton

3. Sing

4. Harvey

5. E. Patterson

 

Honorable Mention: Cedeno, Theriot, Fontenot, Soto, Moore

 

I am very disappointed in Dopirak, he has slid waaaaaay down my list.

[Iceblink]

My list is based on Likelihood to Make a Difference at the Big League Level:

 

1. Pie

2. Murton

3. Sing

4. Harvey

5. E. Patterson

 

Honorable Mention: Cedeno, Theriot, Fontenot, Soto, Moore

 

I am very disappointed in Dopirak, he has slid waaaaaay down my list.

 

My top 5 would be about the same - I like Cedeno, though and think he can be a regular if he can hit around .270. I'd probably put him just above Sing, though I admit I might be giving him too much credit for one good season with the bat.

 

I'm encouraged by Harvey's RBI totals (80 in 89 games), but he's got to show improved patience and handle breaking balls better as he moves up the ladder.

 

Dope has slipped for now. As Mr. Potesta pointed out, the jump from A to AA is the more difficult one. Dopirak has a sub .700 OPS, and has most of the season - is he looking at repeating Daytona to start next year? Moore has slid back a little after his hot early season, and his K's and E's are troubling (though Dopirak's 13 E's at 1b look worse than Moore's 20 at 3b.) I really hope he bounces back, but this season is almost done, and he's still doing very little.

 

Murton's lack of power at a corner OF position is always going to be brought up, but he looks like a quality, patient hitter. We've got good enough power spread around the team, and I'd like to see Murton get a shot. Maybe his professional approach to ABs will rub off on some of the hack-happy veterans - or at least offset some of their horrible OBP's.

 

Pie, Murton, Cedeno and Sing get the highest ranking from me because they're performing at AA or higher. I really hope Dopirak can get it back together, and Harvey can continue to produce as he moves up.

[imb]

I know the draft is a crapshoot, but there's a reason why Dopirak was a 2nd rounder and Sing a 20th rounder. The raw talent is there.

 

Roy Oswalt was a 20th rounder too... I'd say he has a fair amount of raw talent. Sometimes every team just misses on a guy's potential.

 

Actually, 23rd round.

 

Though he was 22 and dominated AA when he was there, not 24 like Sing.

[Laura]

I'm encouraged by Harvey's RBI totals (80 in 89 games), but he's got to show improved patience and handle breaking balls better as he moves up the ladder.

 

Realizing that RBI totals are a dangerous criterion, it's worth noting that Harvey is now 2nd in the Midwest League in RBIs and has 60-some fewer ABs than the league leader.

[Scotti]

Harvey has been hot for the last month—this was expected by some.

 

For me Dopirak was over-rated last year because his BA had a lot to do with his hitting streak. I didn't expect him to fall this far though. Still has a month to get hot.

 

I don't really get bothered as much as some when a player comes back to a league as long as he's basically age appropriate. Dopirak will be (if he returns). Sing was. Nolasco is.

 

My tentative top five list would be:

 

Pie

Harvey

Sing

Cedeno

Dopirak

 

With Murton a close 6th

[treebird]

Harvey has been hot for the last month—this was expected by some.

 

He looks a pretty good amount better running on the bases and in the field. I almost wonder if the knee was still a ways less than 100% for much of the year.

[RyCubsFan]

I know the draft is a crapshoot, but there's a reason why Dopirak was a 2nd rounder and Sing a 20th rounder. The raw talent is there.

 

Roy Oswalt was a 20th rounder too... I'd say he has a fair amount of raw talent. Sometimes every team just misses on a guy's potential.

 

Actually, 23rd round.

 

Though he was 22 and dominated AA when he was there, not 24 like Sing.

 

 

But again, Sing was sick, which killed a full year. In this way, I like to think of him as 23!

[RyCubsFan]

My top position prospects btw:

 

1. Pie -- no brainer. amazing defensive skills. fast fast fast. always wins. exceptional makeup and attitude.

2. Harvey -- tremendous upside. Abreu-like speed and power. Plus his name is Ryan! ; )

3. Murton -- I think his power is going to develop. Will be a very professional hitter. Smart ballplayer. A pleasure to watch.

4. Cedeno -- this high because he plays shortstop. Should hit for decent average. Very strong arm. Good hands and range.

5. Sing -- Simply great power numbers and patience. Do I know if he can hit a breaking ball? Nope. However, as a cubs fan I like to root for the underdogs. Dubois didnt' work out, so now Sing's my hope.

 

Honorable mention: Patterson, Dopirak, Fontenot, Moore, Theriot