Deal for Soriano or Dunn close?

[rawaction]

How about we get Soriano and then ship him to Boston for Manny??? :D

 

Would Theo have interest in Soriano??

 

Delucci, Soriano, Murton, Remlinger to Boston

Manny to Chicago

Patterson, Rusch and Cub pitching prospect

 

Hope Boston has to give up a lot more than that and the Cubs less. That's a 5-for-1 to get Manny, while Boston gets 4-for-1 for him.

[JC]

How about we get Soriano and then ship him to Boston for Manny??? :D

 

20 million dollar, I need my days off, Manny? I'll pass

 

Career 1.007 OPS, first time since 98 not in top 7 in MLB, Manny? I'll accept.

 

People are so picky. Who cares if he can run, catch, throw, asks out of a game.....he's an elite offensive force?

 

I agree with your arguments, Raw. However, I can see no way that Manny is brought to the Cubs. Management spent an entire offseason cleaning out the "distractions" from the roster. Bringing Manny in would be an obvious about face for the organization. Manny is the embodiment of a distraction, and this organization has invested quite a bit of ridding the dugout of such characters.

[JeffH]

Every hitter should be patient and work the count until they see a pitch to hit, and Soriano doesn't do that. What's his P/PA?

 

Soriano sees 3.62 pitches per plate appearance. Of the 160 MLB players with enough PAs to qualify for the batting title, he's 106th.

[Blueheart05]

How about we get Soriano and then ship him to Boston for Manny??? :D

 

20 million dollar, I need my days off, Manny? I'll pass

 

Career 1.007 OPS, first time since 98 not in top 7 in MLB, Manny? I'll accept.

 

People are so picky. Who cares if he can run, catch, throw, asks out of a game.....he's an elite offensive force?

 

We dont need an all star at every position. That being said, if he were a Cub I'd love him but be would be making double of any other player on the team. I imagine that would cause some problems with the dynamics already in place. Also, I wonder how much of a team player he really is? Production is fantastic but if he's constantly being a pain in the side is it really worth it? The Red Sox are a different kind of team with lots of loose cannons; he fits in well there. Conversely, the Cubs seem to have a lot of guys who do their best work under the radar. Finally, I know he wants to be traded but realistically, why would Boston honor this now? They would lose a huge chunk of offense during a time when they are making a playoff run of their own.

[rawaction]

How about we get Soriano and then ship him to Boston for Manny??? :D

 

20 million dollar, I need my days off, Manny? I'll pass

 

Career 1.007 OPS, first time since 98 not in top 7 in MLB, Manny? I'll accept.

 

People are so picky. Who cares if he can run, catch, throw, asks out of a game.....he's an elite offensive force?

 

I agree with your arguments, Raw. However, I can see no way that Manny is brought to the Cubs. Management spent an entire offseason cleaning out the "distractions" from the roster. Bringing Manny in would be an obvious about face for the organization. Manny is the embodiment of a distraction, and this organization has invested quite a bit of ridding the dugout of such characters.

 

I don't either. However, to completely dismiss one of the top hitters in the game because he asked for a day off is not right. I've never seen so many people make petty excuses NOT to want a top flight offensive player.

[ctcf]

So how serious is this rumor?

[YearofDaCubs]

I dont like this trade one bit. The last thing we need is players like Soriano on this team who cant walk and k a lot. Sure, his other numbers are good but we should put our efforts into getting a low k high OBP guy like Huff, and even though the Ks are high Dunn. I would take Huff or Dunn over Soriano any day.

[Blueheart05]

How about we get Soriano and then ship him to Boston for Manny??? :D

 

20 million dollar, I need my days off, Manny? I'll pass

 

Career 1.007 OPS, first time since 98 not in top 7 in MLB, Manny? I'll accept.

 

People are so picky. Who cares if he can run, catch, throw, asks out of a game.....he's an elite offensive force?

 

I agree with your arguments, Raw. However, I can see no way that Manny is brought to the Cubs. Management spent an entire offseason cleaning out the "distractions" from the roster. Bringing Manny in would be an obvious about face for the organization. Manny is the embodiment of a distraction, and this organization has invested quite a bit of ridding the dugout of such characters.

 

I don't either. However, to completely dismiss one of the top hitters in the game because he asked for a day off is not right. I've never seen so many people make petty excuses NOT to want a top flight offensive player.

 

It has nothing to do with just having day off. He wasn't willing to help a teammate and by extension, he was less willing to help his team... It is not the first time. Plus, he constantly tells the media he wants to be traded during a crucial stretch of games. It's hard to argue that he isn't a distraction. Besides, I'm playing the devil's advocate. It would be a HUGE upgrade for the Cubs but it's not a bed of roses.

Edited July 29, 2005 by Blueheart05

[BRBHAWK]

Maybe I missed something, but why would soriano play LF? He has refused numerous times before but now he is okay with it?

 

 

...wow dusty really is a player's manager :roll:

[CubfaninCA]

How about we get Soriano and then ship him to Boston for Manny??? :D

 

Would Theo have interest in Soriano??

 

Delucci, Soriano, Murton, Remlinger to Boston

Manny to Chicago

Patterson, Rusch and Cub pitching prospect

 

Hope Boston has to give up a lot more than that and the Cubs less. That's a 5-for-1 to get Manny, while Boston gets 4-for-1 for him.

 

I don't really count Remlinger as a player. Maybe the Cubs can hang onto Murton. Although I see no spot for him w/ Manny aboard.

[hawkeyecub]

How about we get Soriano and then ship him to Boston for Manny??? :D

 

Would Theo have interest in Soriano??

 

Delucci, Soriano, Murton, Remlinger to Boston

Manny to Chicago

Patterson, Rusch and Cub pitching prospect to TX

 

So we're giving up Patterson, Murton, Remlinger, Rusch and a prospect just for Manny? They bettter be paying about half of his remaining contract then.

 

Plus Texas is giving up Delluci and Soriano but only getting Patterson, Rusch and a pitching prospect in return? That seems low.

 

Boston is making out like bandits in that deal while the other two teams are getting fleeced.

[Roast]

How about we get Soriano and then ship him to Boston for Manny??? :D

I really think you might be on to something here. Hendry does want a long term solution to the outfield situation, and has had a trading relationship with Boston. If we could get Soriano and spin him off to the Sox for Manny, as long as they ate some of his contract, that would be a huge offensive upgrade. Defensivley....well....... :oops: But if anyone could make this happen and come out smelling like a rose, its good ole Jim Hendry.

 

Yesterday I brought up a three way where Boston gets Soriano, We get manny, and texas gets a bunch of pitching and such. Now granted, Boston would end up getting more than just soriano, but thats the basic framework for what I was thinking.

 

I could see that as an actual possibility. That being said however, I have to agreew ith what JC said. The organization was hell bent on getting rid of "distractions". That makes me think that they'd be unwilling to take on manny.

 

Now, As for what blue heart said, you have to realize ALOT of manny's problems are probably vastly overblown by the boston media. They are ruthless. Just look what they did to Nomar. They said HE was a clubhouse cancer and he complained untill he "go out" of boston. Cuse brought up yesterday that he even recalled them saying he didnt run out ground balls either. I recall this also, but I dont remember for sure.

 

And his defense? Its not nearly as bad as people make it out to be (people being that dreaded boston media, again). Over the past 6 years (2000-2005YTD) he has had 1, 0, 1, 1, 0, and 0 errors respectivley. Now errors, obviously, are probably not the best way to evaluate a fielder, but bare with me.

 

Lets compare those error totals to one Jeromy Burnitz who we all consider to be a pretty servicable outfielder. Not a godsend by any means, but, very servicable I think we would all agree. Over the last six years (200-2005YTD) he has 7, 6, 9, 7, 4, and 4 errors respectivley. Now, like I said, thats probably a very bad way to evaluate a fielder. But I think it does at least go a little way towards proving my point. He is not that bad in the outfield.

[Chocolate Milk]

How about we get Soriano and then ship him to Boston for Manny??? :D

 

20 million dollar, I need my days off, Manny? I'll pass

 

Career 1.007 OPS, first time since 98 not in top 7 in MLB, Manny? I'll accept.

 

People are so picky. Who cares if he can run, catch, throw, asks out of a game.....he's an elite offensive force?

 

I agree with your arguments, Raw. However, I can see no way that Manny is brought to the Cubs. Management spent an entire offseason cleaning out the "distractions" from the roster. Bringing Manny in would be an obvious about face for the organization. Manny is the embodiment of a distraction, and this organization has invested quite a bit of ridding the dugout of such characters.

 

I don't either. However, to completely dismiss one of the top hitters in the game because he asked for a day off is not right. I've never seen so many people make petty excuses NOT to want a top flight offensive player.

 

It has nothing to do with just having day off. He wasn't willing to help a teammate and by extension, he was less willing to help his team... It is not the first time. Plus, he constantly tells the media he wants to be traded during a crucial stretch of games. It's hard to argue that he isn't a distraction.

 

I agree, that World Series MVP is quite a distraction and not a team player.

[CubfaninCA]

How about we get Soriano and then ship him to Boston for Manny??? :D

 

Would Theo have interest in Soriano??

 

Delucci, Soriano, Murton, Remlinger to Boston

Manny to Chicago

Patterson, Rusch and Cub pitching prospect to TX

 

So we're giving up Patterson, Murton, Remlinger, Rusch and a prospect just for Manny? They bettter be paying about half of his remaining contract then.

 

Plus Texas is giving up Delluci and Soriano but only getting Patterson, Rusch and a pitching prospect in return? That seems low.

 

Boston is making out like bandits in that deal while the other two teams are getting fleeced.

 

Manny's a superstar.

[Roast]

 

I agree, that World Series MVP is quite a distraction and not a team player.

 

:mamoru:

 

But, her point is not that he isnt good, but that he may be a distraction off the field. But, you gotta remember that they said some of these same thigns about nomar.

[BRBHAWK]

Roast, that is because Manny never gets to the ball, and If he does it falls next to him--hence no error.

seen him play tons of times--it is the next best thing to the circus.

 

That being said, I'll take his bat--it is just the contract that is the prob,

[JC]

 

I agree, that World Series MVP is quite a distraction and not a team player.

 

You're not suggesting Manny ISN'T a distraction, are you? The argument whether the team can take on a distraction aside, I don't think there is anyway you can label Manny as anything other than a distraction.

 

-Refusing to go in a game

-Three requests for trades in four years

-Controversey over being sick in NY, yet having dinner with Yankees

 

Those are just off the top of my head. Manny is an enigma. I would welcome him on the team, but I also recognize him as a likely distraction. His WS MVP is a testament to his skill, not his ability to be a team player necessarily.

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

20 mil, and Manny in left field at Wrigley? No thanks. He would never be able to handle the wind, ivy, etc. I'd love his bat, but there's not DH in the national league.

[hawkeyecub]

Would Theo have interest in Soriano??

 

Delucci, Soriano, Murton, Remlinger to Boston

Manny to Chicago

Patterson, Rusch and Cub pitching prospect to TX

 

So we're giving up Patterson, Murton, Remlinger, Rusch and a prospect just for Manny? They bettter be paying about half of his remaining contract then.

 

Plus Texas is giving up Delluci and Soriano but only getting Patterson, Rusch and a pitching prospect in return? That seems low.

 

Boston is making out like bandits in that deal while the other two teams are getting fleeced.

 

Manny's a superstar.

 

Yeah he is. What's your point?

 

That's still not an even deal. Why would Texas give up Delluci and Soriano for Patterson, Rusch and a minor league pitcher? They wouldn't.

 

So Boston unloads a contract they've been trying to get rid of AND lands a top 5 prospect in their system, AND gets a replacement for Manny making about $20M less with a .900+ OPS AND one of the best second baseman in the game, AND an arm in their bullpen.

 

It's simply not realistic and of the three teams, two are getting fleeced while one is getting the deal of the decade.

[hawkeyecub]

 

I agree, that World Series MVP is quite a distraction and not a team player.

 

:mamoru:

 

But, her point is not that he isnt good, but that he may be a distraction off the field. But, you gotta remember that they said some of these same thigns about nomar.

 

I don't remember Nomar being a distraction off the field. They said he was quiet and kept to himself in the locker room, but not much worse than that.

 

To compare Nomar and Manny off the field is like comparing Nomar and Neifi on the field.

[JC]

Allow me to muddy the Soriano waters.

 

In the other thread, Hoops talked about Soriano possibly pouting if put in LF. What if the deal comes with an understanding that he would play SS next year, or even this year a little bit? He came up as a SS, did he not?

 

Just wanted to toss that out there...

[EricG]

can Soriano play SS if Nomar can't come back?

[Chocolate Milk]

 

I agree, that World Series MVP is quite a distraction and not a team player.

 

You're not suggesting Manny ISN'T a distraction, are you? The argument whether the team can take on a distraction aside, I don't think there is anyway you can label Manny as anything other than a distraction.

 

-Refusing to go in a game

-Three requests for trades in four years

-Controversey over being sick in NY, yet having dinner with Yankees

 

Those are just off the top of my head. Manny is an enigma. I would welcome him on the team, but I also recognize him as a likely distraction. His WS MVP is a testament to his skill, not his ability to be a team player necessarily.

 

What I'm trying to say is that the impact of his distraction is overrated. Not only did his team make it to the world series last year in spite of his distractions, he also turned out to be the best player in the series that was the biggest in the history of his team. Maybe they were able to handle it better than most and maybe his distractive tendencies are overblown. The bottom line is I honestly don't think his supposed distractive shortcomings come close to overshadowing his unbelievable play.

[David]

i dont like the idea of a three way for floyd. If with our package of prospects we can get soriano, i feel he is far more productive then floyd. Especially if we can get a cpatt/welly for soriano,cash, nix/delluci or we could throw in someone else for even mench. This would marginally improve our team. What would be even better is if after this trade we could walker and midlevel prospect for jacque jones or lew ford. i think the lineup of

 

soriano at 2b

nomar

lee

aramis

burnitz in cf

kevn Mench/Lew ford/David Delluci in lf

Jacque Jones/lance Nix in rf

Barrett

 

is far superior to

 

hairston

walker

lee

arramis

burnitz

floyd/holly/murton

nomar/nefi

barrett

 

 

 

 

 

oh yeah, dfa macias

 

Actually, I much prefer that second lineup.. although I'd line it up more like..

Hairston, Walker, Lee, Ramirez, Floyd, Nomar, Burnitz, Barrett

 

As for that first lineup, that's quite a creative outfield you have in that first one too... Burnitz in CF? I know he's played there, but I'm not sure I'd want him there everyday.. And Soriano leading off? :pukel:

[sonofsamiam]

Continuing conversation from now-locked post...

 

sonofsamiam said: True, except Park pitched in an extreme pitcher's park before moving to Texas. Also, you can compare all sorts of people at various stages of their career -- for example, Wood is much better through age 28 than either Randy Johnson or Curt Schilling were.

 

rynorules said: That's a very fair point. However, I would note that Wood's injuries are an "aggravating" (pun intended) factor...

 

Oh, absolutely. But that's sort of my point. Through age 28, Schilling and Johnson were considered terribly injury-prone and inconsistent, and got a lot of the same type of grief Wood gets. I've always sort of hoped Wood would turn the corner at the same time those guys did, but then again there are many, many examples of pitchers that started great and fell off the table.

 

I do think he has productive, full seasons in his future, though. The recent injuries have been very much magnified by the heightened expectations for the team the last 2 years (which were ironically heightened in large part by Wood himself).

 

 

As for Soriano -- I dunno. He's sort of the prototypical problematic Cub or the recent past, isn't he? Few walks, good power, lots of strikeouts, not much in the field.