Do we want Pierre?

[RonCey]

With the speculation in today's Sun Times (http://www.suntimes.com/output/couch/cst-spt-greg18.html) and picked up by ESPN Insider, combined with the fire-sale by the Marlins, this question is worth digging up again.

 

Would you want Pierre? Who do we give up? What would this mean for Patterson/Pie?

[burnt out cubbie fan]

No, I wouldn't want him. Why pay 3.7 mil for him to play plus the prospects it takes to get him when we have a better option in house? (JHJ)

[Springfield_CUBBY]

With the speculation in today's Sun Times (http://www.suntimes.com/output/couch/cst-spt-greg18.html) and picked up by ESPN Insider, combined with the fire-sale by the Marlins, this question is worth digging up again.

 

Would you want Pierre? Who do we give up? What would this mean for Patterson/Pie?

 

I would add "what does this mean for Harriston??"

 

I like the direction JH JR. is going - but PIERRE! Come on -- how could you say no to him if he's available???

[cheapseats]

I wouldn't want Pierre even if he didn't cost us anything.

 

Pierre of 2005 is not close to Pierre of 2004 - and Pierre of 2004 was far from perfect.

 

As a rental, he wouldn't make much of a difference. He might not help at all.

 

If we wanted to sign him for 2006 and beyond, he'd cost too much, and we could better use the money for players who would make more of an impact.

[Dr. Cub]

With the speculation in today's Sun Times (http://www.suntimes.com/output/couch/cst-spt-greg18.html) and picked up by ESPN Insider, combined with the fire-sale by the Marlins, this question is worth digging up again.

 

Would you want Pierre? Who do we give up? What would this mean for Patterson/Pie?

 

I would add "what does this mean for Harriston??"

 

I like the direction JH JR. is going - but PIERRE! Come on -- how could you say no to him if he's available???

 

I first would put the "N" and then follow it up with about 1.76 million "O's", and I think that would do the trick.

[Springfield_CUBBY]

we could better use the money for players who would make more of an impact.

 

Like whom, for instance??

[AAApittsburgh]

With the speculation in today's Sun Times (http://www.suntimes.com/output/couch/cst-spt-greg18.html) and picked up by ESPN Insider, combined with the fire-sale by the Marlins, this question is worth digging up again.

 

Would you want Pierre? Who do we give up? What would this mean for Patterson/Pie?

 

I would add "what does this mean for Harriston??"

 

I like the direction JH JR. is going - but PIERRE! Come on -- how could you say no to him if he's available???

Because he sucks. He has no power, no arm, not a great base stealer, and doesn't walk much.

[kroth1342]

ESPN Rumor Central is reporting (via the Trib) that the Cubs are interested in acquiring Pierre. Would Pierre really be an uprade over Hairston? His .319 OBP is about 40-50 points lower than it has been the past two years, although this seems to be brought about by a BA (.272) that would be a career low - however, Pierre has struck out slightly more times than he has walked this year (24 K to 21 BB). Does anyone feel his luck would change at Wrigley, and would the extra steals translate into an advantage over Hairston? IMO, I would rather see the extra difference paid for Pierre's salary possibly kept to acquire a reliever.

[Springfield_CUBBY]

I like the direction JH JR. is going - but PIERRE! Come on -- how could you say no to him if he's available???

Because he sucks. He has no power, no arm, not a great base stealer, and doesn't walk much.

 

Peirre has hit over .300 4 out of the last 5 years, while JH has not come close to that production. Granted, he's not a big HR threat, but neither is JH.

 

JP gives us more than JH, simple as that.

[USSoccer]

Juan Pierre is the poster child for overrated players. His OPB is severly reduced by his stealing percentage, and he's having a bad year.

 

Just say ney

[AAApittsburgh]

I like the direction JH JR. is going - but PIERRE! Come on -- how could you say no to him if he's available???

Because he sucks. He has no power, no arm, not a great base stealer, and doesn't walk much.

 

Peirre has hit over .300 4 out of the last 5 years, while JH has not come close to that production. Granted, he's not a big HR threat, but neither is JH.

 

JP gives us more than JH, simple as that.

And a slugging LF would give us a lot more than Pierre. He's not the answer.

[Springfield_CUBBY]

He has no power, no arm, not a great base stealer, and doesn't walk much.

By the way - those are all comments you could make about our current center fielder.

 

JP plays better defense and hits for higher average . . .

[1908]

He has no power, no arm, not a great base stealer, and doesn't walk much.

By the way - those are all comments you could make about our current center fielder.

Yep, and he doesn't cost us any prospects to keep.

[AAApittsburgh]

He has no power, no arm, not a great base stealer, and doesn't walk much.

By the way - those are all comments you could make about our current center fielder.

 

JP plays better defense and hits for higher average . . .

But it's not worth giving up anything for a slight upgrade.

[Springfield_CUBBY]

[quote="Springfield_CUBBY

But it's not worth giving up anything for a slight upgrade.

 

That's the point of this thread - We don't know what we would have to give up. Any ideas (just for the fun of discussing it)?

[chopsx9]

Juan Pierre is the poster child for overrated players. His OPB is severly reduced by his stealing percentage, and he's having a bad year.

 

Just say ney

 

If we are reducing his OBP due to his CS are we also increasing his SLG by his SB ? Don't know if that makes him more attractive or not but the logic would seem to follow.

[rawaction]

Exactly. As I said in another thread. Pierre has a career .356 OBP and is hitting .354 since the final week in June. He's a career .300 hitter, so you can assume he had a down start to the year. He's also stealing at 79% success rate this year. I will admit he's not a huge upgrade over Hairston, and I wouldn't give up much for him.

[Springfield_CUBBY]

Exactly. As I said in another thread. Pierre has a career .356 OBP and is hitting .354 since the final week in June. He's a career .300 hitter, so you can assume he had a down start to the year. He's also stealing at 79% success rate this year. I will admit he's not a huge upgrade over Hairston, and I wouldn't give up much for him.

 

I agree. I'm not advocating selling the farm for him - but he does have an upside that cannot be denied.

[ZZ Thorn]

I wouldn't want Pierre even if he didn't cost us anything.

 

Pierre of 2005 is not close to Pierre of 2004 - and Pierre of 2004 was far from perfect.

As a rental, he wouldn't make much of a difference. He might not help at all.

 

If we wanted to sign him for 2006 and beyond, he'd cost too much, and we could better use the money for players who would make more of an impact.

 

He could have had a better success rate stealing, but .326/.374/.407 with 221 hits is a very impressive offensive season for a leadoff hitter in my book. You don't get 221 hits in a year by not being good.

 

Pierre isn't Rickey Henderson, but let's give the guy some credit, even tho he is a Marlin. A lifetime 73% success rate stealing isn't the neccesary 80%, but it's still pretty good and he still is a major distraction on the basepaths. .307/.356/.378 lifetime is very good for what he is, a leadoff hitter who lifetime has more walks than strikeouts. He may not have a good arm in the OF, but he has great range, and this is a guy who has played more than 350 straight games, another plus.

 

But I think he'll cost too much to aquire and to keep. May as well keep Hairston and wait for Pie. If a good deal came along I'd sure take it tho.

[cheapseats]

we could better use the money for players who would make more of an impact.

 

Like whom, for instance??

 

Just about anyone. Pierre's VORPr is just .100. There are about 30 CF's that are having better offensive years, and Pierre is a slightly below average defender.

 

Guys I'd rather have than Pierre: Xavier Nady, David Dejesus, Grady Sizemore, Joey Gathright, Brady Clark, Kenny Lofton, Milton Bradley. And those are just centerfielders.

 

Given the choice, I'd get a bat in leftfield before I'd worry about CF, so Pierre falls even further down the list of guys I'd like to see in a Cubs uni.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Emphatic no. Also, as O_O pointed out in a similar debate about Podsednik, it's not quite as fair to just add SB to SLG, since they are not the same as a total base, which has other impacts(advancing and scoring runners). It's more fair to do with CS, since it's a pretty black and white measure of whether he got out or not. That said, It probably is fair to add SB in some way, but it probably shouldn't be considered as valuable as a total base. Edited July 18, 2005 by Transmogrified Tiger

[USSoccer]

Too many Cub fans are haunted by the perception of how the Marlins beat us in 2003. Pierre's speed didn't account for a single run in the NLCS. He'd be a marginal upgrade over Hairston, and certainly wouldn't be worth the cost you'd pay for him.

 

That said, I can see Hendry pursuing him.

[ZZ Thorn]

Juan Pierre could turn out to be a really special ballplayer - some speed guys burn out in their early thirties, but some guys stick around forever. He's so durable I could see him being one of those 'still fast at 40' guys, but that's just a guess of course.

 

Pierre could put up some really great totals before it's all said and done. His ability to handle the bat and consistently make contact (to take advantage of his speed) certainly bodes well for him. He had a bad first half, but at 27 I'd sure be shocked if this was 'the beginning of the end' of Juan Pierre.

[GaborBako]

It's true he makes $3.6 million this year but he's arbitration eligible after the season so you'll be paying at least twice that (probably more) next year. And if you trade a top prospect for him you're doing it with the idea you're going to keep him, so that has to be factored in.

 

That said, you only have one player in the system now who has the potential to be as good as Juan and that's Felix Pie. Say what you want about Jerry Hairston, but he's not a real center fielder defensively and his injury history is extensive.

 

Right now, if Hairston got hurt the Cubs would have Jose Macias playing center. The other options are Adam Greenberg (DL), Felix Pie (minor league DL) and Corey Patterson (cluelessly still flailing away in Des Moines).

 

Another benefit to trading for Pierre (if he's really available) is that it buys Pie even more development time. If Felix is as good as he's alleged to be then you can trade Pierre or depending on your outfield situation play them together. You can't expect to win if you don't pursue a player at a position where you have a prospect who "might" be ready to contribute next year.

[nolanwood]

Here's the deal with Pierre. He got off to a ridiculously slow start this year and didnt really "turn it on" until the beginning of June. He has a problem with working out religiously, and he spent WAY to much time in the offseason doing so. He had a slight injury at the beginning of the season due to overworking himself....and after some patience and taking it a little easier, hes's back on track to have a great year. He definitely has the potential to steal more bases - and I think with a new team you may see a little more spark from him. The main thing is to keep him from working out so much that he loses gas on the field. I think he'd be a great asset to our team!!

 

He would make a great CF/leadoff guy for us and give Pie more time to develop in the minors.

Edited July 18, 2005 by nolanwood