Cubs Pre-Offseason Mega Thread

[squally1313]

1 hour ago, Rcal10 said:

But what is Ohtani against the LT? He for $700M/10 years. He isn’t $70M against the LT. I seem to remember he was being counted at around $46M. Am I wrong about this? If not, deferrals can matter.

 

57 minutes ago, mul21 said:

That's just not accurate.  They use the current day value of those dollars to do the LT calculation, which is why Ohtani counts for like $38 million against the cap instead of the annual average of $70 million the contract comes out to before factoring in deferrals.

It's accurate in that everyone understands it's the present value of the contract. The Dodgers have to put the amount of money into an escrow account that, with some sort of standard interest rate, will mature into the $70m they owe him yearly. They could have paid Shohei $46m up front and he could have done the same thing. They aren't like, tricking the players or anything. If I offer you $50 now or $70 10 years from now, you should take $50 now. 

Now, you could argue the Dodgers, as part of the larger Guggenheim shenanigans, are uniquely (and/or unfairly) able to outgain the standard interest rate, and so keeping the money on hand and invested in whatever is advantageous to them. But it wasn;t like Shohei was considering a $50m/year offer with no deferrals and then was like 'oh, $70m is bigger than $50m'

[Rcal10]

Would Shaw or Ramirez get the Cubs someone from the Guardians rotation? Bibee or Cantillo? They have Espino to fill in the rotation. Or would either of those Cubs get get them someone from the Mariners? Hancock, maybe. They have a top prospect coming up? If the Cubs could get a cheaper pitcher that would allow them to be more aggressive with additional pitchers and/or a bat or two. 

[Backtobanks]

3 hours ago, Rcal10 said:

Would Shaw or Ramirez get the Cubs someone from the Guardians rotation? Bibee or Cantillo? They have Espino to fill in the rotation. Or would either of those Cubs get get them someone from the Mariners? Hancock, maybe. They have a top prospect coming up? If the Cubs could get a cheaper pitcher that would allow them to be more aggressive with additional pitchers and/or a bat or two. 

Shaw plus Alcantara plus a pitching prospect might get one of those pitchers you named.

[Rcal10]

53 minutes ago, Backtobanks said:

Shaw plus Alcantara plus a pitching prospect might get one of those pitchers you named.

No offense btb, but you tend to have negative views on any Cub, so while you very well could be right, I don’t take your view as an actual truth. Again, maybe one of those pitchers cost that much, but maybe Shaw or Ramirez has more value than you give them credit for. 

[Backtobanks]

39 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

No offense btb, but you tend to have negative views on any Cub, so while you very well could be right, I don’t take your view as an actual truth. Again, maybe one of those pitchers cost that much, but maybe Shaw or Ramirez has more value than you give them credit for. 

All of those starting pitchers are young and have years of control, which means high cost.  Shaw and Ramirez are utility IFs who might be starters on a team in need of an IF.  

[Rcal10]

2 hours ago, Backtobanks said:

All of those starting pitchers are young and have years of control, which means high cost.  Shaw and Ramirez are utility IFs who might be starters on a team in need of an IF.  

Bibee is signed through 29 with an option for the team for the ‘30 season. He is being paid around $9M a year. And he has produced MOR/BOR numbers the last 2 years. Shaw is under control until 2031. Ramirez, longer. If you said it would cost Shaw or Ramirez plus a small piece, maybe in A or AA, who isn’t a high end prospect, I could agree. I don’t feel he should cost Shaw or Ramirez, Alcantara AND. pitching prospect. I think that is devaluing the Cubs players a little more than necessary. 

[ILMindState]

31 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

Bibee is signed through 29 with an option for the team for the ‘30 season. He is being paid around $9M a year. And he has produced MOR/BOR numbers the last 2 years. Shaw is under control until 2031. Ramirez, longer. If you said it would cost Shaw or Ramirez plus a small piece, maybe in A or AA, who isn’t a high end prospect, I could agree. I don’t feel he should cost Shaw or Ramirez, Alcantara AND. pitching prospect. I think that is devaluing the Cubs players a little more than necessary. 

We're 2 years past Alcantara having any trade value. It's not that bad of an idea. Shane Beiber brought back a top 100 coming off an injury. 

Edited 16 hours ago by ILMindState

[Derwood]

Amusing to me that PCA "isn't the MVP because he didn't show up in the playoffs" while Shohei is just pissing down his leg almost every at-bat

[Geographyhater8888]

9 hours ago, Derwood said:

Amusing to me that PCA "isn't the MVP because he didn't show up in the playoffs" while Shohei is just pissing down his leg almost every at-bat

The latest thing is war skepticism because how can PCA have such a high war with a league leading 6 errors in center field, a higher war than Acuna who went 41/73, he didn’t throw a single pitch and wasn’t that good in the first 2 months.

Ozzy Smith shouldn’t be a hall of famer, Adam Dunn>Ichiro, and the Padres weren’t a good team because they had a 500 record at the all star break and shouldn’t have qualified for the playoffs if we’re playing this game. 

Edited 7 hours ago by Geographyhater8888

[Geographyhater8888]

11 hours ago, Rcal10 said:

Bibee is signed through 29 with an option for the team for the ‘30 season. He is being paid around $9M a year. And he has produced MOR/BOR numbers the last 2 years. Shaw is under control until 2031. Ramirez, longer. If you said it would cost Shaw or Ramirez plus a small piece, maybe in A or AA, who isn’t a high end prospect, I could agree. I don’t feel he should cost Shaw or Ramirez, Alcantara AND. pitching prospect. I think that is devaluing the Cubs players a little more than necessary. 

At this point it makes more sense to hold onto both Shaw and Ramirez and see what you have in them with regular playing time since you won’t get a lot for either. They also need to controllable bodies with question marks all over the outfield.

Edited 6 hours ago by Geographyhater8888

[Backtobanks]

10 hours ago, Rcal10 said:

Bibee is signed through 29 with an option for the team for the ‘30 season. He is being paid around $9M a year. And he has produced MOR/BOR numbers the last 2 years. Shaw is under control until 2031. Ramirez, longer. If you said it would cost Shaw or Ramirez plus a small piece, maybe in A or AA, who isn’t a high end prospect, I could agree. I don’t feel he should cost Shaw or Ramirez, Alcantara AND. pitching prospect. I think that is devaluing the Cubs players a little more than necessary. 

For Bibee, but Cantillo or Hancock would cost you Shaw, Alcantara, and a pitching prospect.

[mul21]

2 hours ago, Geographyhater8888 said:

I still have no idea how the horsefeathers the Royals won 2 pennants and a World Series. Every other champion makes some sense. The Rangers came out of nowhere and were another anomaly but more so because their World Series was sandwiched between 9 losing seasons and not their profile as a team.

Bullpen of death, 6 guys with a 119 OPS+ or better, and enough starting pitching did the trick for them. Wade Davis had an ERA+ of 448.  That's just comical.

[Geographyhater8888]

30 minutes ago, mul21 said:

Bullpen of death, 6 guys with a 119 OPS+ or better, and enough starting pitching did the trick for them. Wade Davis had an ERA+ of 448.  That's just comical.

I get the process. A low budget, small market team like the Royals pulling off 2 pennants and a World Series championship out of nowhere doesn’t happen. They were the Brewers before the Brewers, which is why it was hard to speak in absolutes about the Brewers inability to hit in the playoffs with their profile of hitters when you have the small ball royals to use as a recent example. For what it’s worth, velocity is higher now than 10 years ago and the Brewers have been closer to a 3 true outcomes team this month. 

Wrong thread.

Edited 6 hours ago by Geographyhater8888

[Outshined_One]

19 hours ago, Rcal10 said:

Would Shaw or Ramirez get the Cubs someone from the Guardians rotation? Bibee or Cantillo? They have Espino to fill in the rotation. Or would either of those Cubs get get them someone from the Mariners? Hancock, maybe. They have a top prospect coming up? If the Cubs could get a cheaper pitcher that would allow them to be more aggressive with additional pitchers and/or a bat or two. 

There was a decent amount of smoke around Kirby (and Gilbert, to a lesser extent) at the deadline this year, and I could see the Mariners trying to swing a deal that opens a spot for Kade Anderson in the rotation while making up for the (inevitable) loss of Arozarena's bat.  The Mariners also have a decent amount of pressure to reverse their offensive woes from this past season (which resulted in the majority of their coaching staff getting the axe), so Ramirez seems to make more sense than Shaw from that perspective.

For the Guardians...who the heck knows?  They're pretty set at 2B/3B with Bazzana and Jose Ramirez, but they could upgrade from Genao as a primary UTIL, and they're usually active in the trade market.

[Rcal10]

1 hour ago, Outshined_One said:

There was a decent amount of smoke around Kirby (and Gilbert, to a lesser extent) at the deadline this year, and I could see the Mariners trying to swing a deal that opens a spot for Kade Anderson in the rotation while making up for the (inevitable) loss of Arozarena's bat.  The Mariners also have a decent amount of pressure to reverse their offensive woes from this past season (which resulted in the majority of their coaching staff getting the axe), so Ramirez seems to make more sense than Shaw from that perspective.

For the Guardians...who the heck knows?  They're pretty set at 2B/3B with Bazzana and Jose Ramirez, but they could upgrade from Genao as a primary UTIL, and they're usually active in the trade market.

Yep, just used the Guardians as an example because when Espino was pitching I looked at there roster and noticed several starting pitchers of interest. Including him. And, didn’t Hawkins come from there? He might know a little about Bibee, at least. There are a lot of young pitchers or at least guys with 3 years of control, who can be discussed. Use Ramirez or Shaw as a main piece and as long as a secondary piece isn’t another top 12-18 guy in the system, add if you have to. Tampa has a few interesting guys as well.