Rockies (Feltner) vs Cubs (Cabrera): 6/16/26, 7:05pm

[Brock Beauchamp]

So, the Cubs couldn't get to Lorenzen, but managed to eke out a win anyway. So... well done?

	THU	FRI	SAT	SUN	MON	TOT
Trent Thornton	0	26	0	0	0	26
Ryan Rolison	17	0	0	11	0	28
Phil Maton	8	0	21	0	15	44
Javier Assad	0	85	0	0	0	85
Jacob Webb	0	0	0	8	14	22
Hoby Milner	10	14	0	13	0	37
Ethan Roberts	0	0	20	32	0	52
Daniel Palencia	0	0	0	0	20	20
Caleb Thielbar	0	0	23	0	15	38

 

[Tangled Up in Plaid]

Feltner is nearly as bad as Lorenzen so adjust expectations accordingly

[BKHoo]

Bregman

Hoerner

Swanson

MoBaller

 

It’s ok to get a hit with men on base. Really.  It’s ok to do that. 

[Derwood]

PCA's June OPS is 1.367

[cl smooth]

and now palencia is hurt (again):

 

 

[Papa Cub]

So…..when do people start looking into the Cubs’ pitching or training staff? The amount of injuries and guys on the IL (particularly all the pitchers) is not only ridiculous, but concerning. 
 

What a cluster horsefeathers

Edited 7 hours ago by Papa Cub

[Jason Ross]

3 minutes ago, Papa Cub said:

So…..when do people start looking into the Cubs’ pitching or training staff? The amount of injuries and guys in the IL (particularly all the pitchers) is not only ridiculous, but concerning. 
 

What a cluster horsefeathers

They're pitchers. Notice a trend on most of the injuries? They're guys who throw super hard. And they're almost always an elbow or shoulder issue. This isn't a training issue. This a "this is what power arms do" issue. The Braves had 3 SPs go down with TJS in a week in March. These guys are doing what the human body is not meant to do. 

The reason the Cubs haven't seen this issue as often recently is in due part because they have had some of the lowest velo guys in the league. They added velo this year and all of a sudden the injuries followed. 

The Cubs need to continue to stockpile velo so that when the injuries happen they have some who haven't exploded. One of the issues is that when you're late to the velo party, you have less guys laying around to backfill. But we should all become used to pitching injuries...this is modern baseball for better or worse. 

[Papa Cub]

23 minutes ago, Jason Ross said:

They're pitchers. Notice a trend on most of the injuries? They're guys who throw super hard. And they're almost always an elbow or shoulder issue. This isn't a training issue. This a "this is what power arms do" issue. The Braves had 3 SPs go down with TJS in a week in March. These guys are doing what the human body is not meant to do. 

The reason the Cubs haven't seen this issue as often recently is in due part because they have had some of the lowest velo guys in the league. They added velo this year and all of a sudden the injuries followed. 

The Cubs need to continue to stockpile velo so that when the injuries happen they have some who haven't exploded. One of the issues is that when you're late to the velo party, you have less guys laying around to backfill. But we should all become used to pitching injuries...this is modern baseball for better or worse. 

Hey Jason - I’m not disagreeing with what you’re saying. Today’s pitchers focus a ton more on velocity and spin rate, so naturally it’s going to affect the ligaments at a higher rate.

I guess a better question would be this:

What training regimen did they use 20-30+ years ago that allowed pitchers to pitch every THIRD day as opposed to 5-6th day? Why were the injuries significantly lower then as compared to pitchers now? Nolan Ryan and Randy Johnson are outliers perhaps, but there were others with 92-96mph velo and “high spins” as well, yet they maintained (key word) a much heavier workload and did it for longevity. 
 

🤷‍♂️ - maybe training staffs should take a page from that generation? 

Edited 7 hours ago by Papa Cub

[cl smooth]

1 minute ago, Papa Cub said:

I guess a better question would be this:

What training regimen did they use 20-30+ years ago that allowed pitchers to pitch every THIRD day as opposed to 5-6th day? Why were the injuries significantly lower then as compared to pitchers now? Nolan Ryan and Randy Johnson are outliers perhaps, but there were others with 92-96mph velo and “high spins” as well, yet they maintained (key word) a much heavier workload and did it for longevity. 
 

🤷‍♂️ - maybe training staffs shock take a page from that generation? 

for every nolan ryan and randy johnson you remember, you forget about the guys who had arm problems/"dead arm" who never stuck around for long. 

pitcher injuries have always been around. 

[Papa Cub]

Just now, cl smooth said:

for every nolan ryan and randy johnson you remember, you forget about the guys who had arm problems/"dead arm" who never stuck around for long. 

pitcher injuries have always been around. 

I’m definitely not disputing that pitchers didn’t get injured or experience burn out years ago - I’m simply saying that the training or conditioning is lacking if you’re having this high of a rate of pitching injuries. 
 

It’s like every time you turn around another pitcher is on the shelf - it’s crazy 
 

 

[Rex Buckingham]

Also, nobody 20-30 years ago was starting every 3rd day, except that insane stretch run from Sabathia where the Brewers rode him like a rented mule

[Jason Ross]

25 minutes ago, Papa Cub said:

Hey Jason - I’m not disagreeing with what you’re saying. Today’s pitchers focus a ton more on velocity and spin rate, so naturally it’s going to affect the ligaments at a higher rate.

I guess a better question would be this:

What training regimen did they use 20-30+ years ago that allowed pitchers to pitch every THIRD day as opposed to 5-6th day? Why were the injuries significantly lower then as compared to pitchers now? Nolan Ryan and Randy Johnson are outliers perhaps, but there were others with 92-96mph velo and “high spins” as well, yet they maintained (key word) a much heavier workload and did it for longevity. 
 

🤷‍♂️ - maybe training staffs should take a page from that generation? 

The issue isn't that training is any different. It's that people like Nolan Ryan's are freaks of nature beyond what a normal freak of nature is. He's a generationally healthy human in the same way Shohei Ohtani is a generationally talented baseball player. 

Instead ask "what's so different today that doesn't allow guys to throw as often?" and the answer is almost assuredly that instead of throwing 88-90mph for 140 pitches MLB has found out that it's better for guys to throw 98mph for 80 pitches, and then have another guy throw 98 for 15 pitches, and another guy throw 97mph for 15 pitches....until you get to 140. And when one of your freaks breaks, you just find another. 

This is a churn and burn scenario. And a downside of this comes in the form of elbows that explode because they aren't designed to throw 98mph. 

As well, part of this is just that science is better at detecting arm injuries. Dave Steib was arguably the best pitcher in the 80s who's entire career fell apart at age 32. Today he may have had elbow reconstructive surgery 3 years before that, extended his career to 35-38. Instead he was effectively done at 32. "Washed up" when he was really...just hurt. History is littered with pitchers who had short careers likely because their elbows gave way, but we never knew it.

It's not that everyone forgot how to train. It's that we live in a very different world and the human body just isn't designed to do this. 

[Papa Cub]

7 minutes ago, Jason Ross said:

The issue isn't that training is any different. It's that people like Nolan Ryan's are freaks of nature beyond what a normal freak of nature is. He's a generationally healthy human in the same way Shohei Ohtani is a generationally talented baseball player. 

Instead ask "what's so different today that doesn't allow guys to throw as often?" and the answer is almost assuredly that instead of throwing 88-90mph for 140 pitches MLB has found out that it's better for guys to throw 98mph for 80 pitches, and then have another guy throw 98 for 15 pitches, and another guy throw 97mph for 15 pitches....until you get to 140. And when one of your freaks breaks, you just find another. 

This is a churn and burn scenario. And a downside of this comes in the form of elbows that explode because they aren't designed to throw 98mph. 

As well, part of this is just that science is better at detecting arm injuries. Dave Steib was arguably the best pitcher in the 80s who's entire career fell apart at age 32. Today he may have had elbow reconstructive surgery 3 years before that, extended his career to 35-38. Instead he was effectively done at 32. "Washed up" when he was really...just hurt. History is littered with pitchers who had short careers likely because their elbows gave way, but we never knew it.

It's not that everyone forgot how to train. It's that we live in a very different world and the human body just isn't designed to do this. 

Well said - good and fair points 

[Tangled Up in Plaid]

now they need Wiggins in the bullpen even more. Huge loss

[BKHoo]

The Cubs are one of the lowest avg velo pitching staffs in MLB, right? 

[We Got The Whole 9]

If it weren't for Cabrera and Palencia you know we wouldn't have no velo at all

[Neuby]

Thought Pedro and Shaw both would get the start tonight. 

[Jason Ross]

9 minutes ago, BKHoo said:

The Cubs are one of the lowest avg velo pitching staffs in MLB, right? 

Yes. However should be important to note that Horton and Harvey, who were here to help that issue, are both essentially dead for the season (Harvey isn't officially listed as our but his prognosis sounds bleak based on recent reporting). I also don't think it's unrelated that they're among the hardest throwing guys in the team and are both hurt, too. Velo and arm issues tend to go hand in hand. 

[Backtobanks]

1 hour ago, Rex Buckingham said:

Also, nobody 20-30 years ago was starting every 3rd day, except that insane stretch run from Sabathia where the Brewers rode him like a rented mule

They weren't starting every 3rd day, but they were pitching 7-8 innings every start.

 

[Irrelevant Dude]

1 hour ago, Jason Ross said:

Instead ask "what's so different today that doesn't allow guys to throw as often?" and the answer is almost assuredly that instead of throwing 88-90mph for 140 pitches MLB has found out that it's better for guys to throw 98mph for 80 pitches, and then have another guy throw 98 for 15 pitches, and another guy throw 97mph for 15 pitches....until you get to 140. And when one of your freaks breaks, you just find another. 

And I think this is a major problem for MLB.  It isn't fun to see star pitchers constantly getting injured.  Teams are doing what they have to do to complete in the modern MLB landscape, but I would argue that it isn't making the sport better.  I just don't know what a possible solution could be.  How do you ever go back to a world where guys aren't maximized for short term gain and then discarded for the next guy who can come in and do the same thing?

[Derwood]

Cohen and Floyd? Is Marquee even trying anymore?

[Jason Ross]

22 minutes ago, Irrelevant Dude said:

And I think this is a major problem for MLB.  It isn't fun to see star pitchers constantly getting injured.  Teams are doing what they have to do to complete in the modern MLB landscape, but I would argue that it isn't making the sport better.  I just don't know what a possible solution could be.  How do you ever go back to a world where guys aren't maximized for short term gain and then discarded for the next guy who can come in and do the same thing?

Yeah the MLB has a problem. And candidly, we have a human problem too. Really, what happens to a guy in 30 years after he's had three TJS? Do we really know? These are people and while science has gotten way better, there has to be some ethical questions too. 

But putting those aside, I agree, there isn't an easy solution. And unless this becomes a real CTE type "guys are dying" thing, I'm not sure the MLB is really going to step in.

[We Got The Whole 9]

Is this my favorite Cub ever? My goodness.

[Brian707]

[Tangled Up in Plaid]