Cubs have interest in Kotsay

[andrew9991]

In Buster Olney's lastest chat on ESPN, he mentions that (along with the Yankees) the Cubs are in on the Kotsay talks. Billy Beane seems to like Kotsay a lot so I would imagine he would ask for a good deal of talent in return. Kotsay would help the top of the lineup but I'm still hoping for Dunn.

[rawaction]

Might as well play Hairston.

 

Kotsay: .334 OBP .390 SLG Career: .343 OBP .422 SLG

JH Jr: .364 .369 Career: .336 .371

 

Hairston also got on base more in 03 and 04.

[Backtobanks]

Except Kotsay is an OF and Hairston is an IF who plays the OF. Also, as someone mentioned in another post, getting someone like Kotsay opens up the trade possibilities with Corey Patterson.

[Diffusion]

Might as well play Hairston.

 

Kotsay: .334 OBP .390 SLG Career: .343 OBP .422 SLG

JH Jr: .364 .369 Career: .336 .371

 

Hairston also got on base more in 03 and 04.

 

Yes, but Kotsay is an amazing defensive CF, Hairston is awful out there. The defence gulf magnifies the offensive marginal difference at least three-fold.

 

All the same, I'd be opposed to getting Kotsay. I'm still, if not a Corey fan, a Corey apologist.

[rawaction]

Might as well play Hairston.

 

Kotsay: .334 OBP .390 SLG Career: .343 OBP .422 SLG

JH Jr: .364 .369 Career: .336 .371

 

Hairston also got on base more in 03 and 04.

 

Yes, but Kotsay is an amazing defensive CF, Hairston is awful out there. The defence gulf magnifies the offensive marginal difference at least three-fold.

 

I know you said you don't want Kotsay. But the fact that the Cubs would have to trade something of value to get Kotsay, who also makes a decent amount, when they have a more than comparable offensive alternative already in house makes the move not worth it in the short or long-run.

[UK1679666180]

I'd pass, set your sights higher, Kotsay does nothing to address the team's lack of ability of getting runners on base.

[Diffusion]

I'd pass, set your sights higher, Kotsay does nothing to address the team's lack of ability of getting runners on base.

 

Right....

 

Kotsay has an OBP of .355 for 2002-05 (playing for the Marlins, Padres and now A's).

 

Yes, the Cubs couldn't use that at the top of the order at all.

 

On top of that he plays defence to die for. There isn't a CF I'd rather watch play defence that Kotsay. He glides around making everything look ridiculously easy.

 

He's the most underrated CF in the game by a mile. He only 29. He earns $5.5m this year and $5.5m next year (player option). Salaries would increase to $6.5m each year if he were traded.

 

If you gave me $6.5m a year and I could sign any CF in the game with that money, off the top of my head I can't think of a better choice than Kotsay.

 

That said, I'm still opposed to trading for him, because he'd be expensive in terms of prospects, as raw says. And I'm a Corey apologist.

[Diffusion]

Sign on the free market that is. Obviously I'd take the likes of Jason Bay earning $350k over Kotsay earning $6.5m (even though I have reservations about Bay's ability to hit for an average much above .270).

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

While driving home from picking up Addison, they were discussing the Yankees getting Kotsay on the Show with Kennedy and Dibble. They mentioned Eric Duncan and Matt DeSalvo as the players the Yankees would use to get him. I think we could easily top that offer.

 

If we trade for Kotsay, it would provide a lead-off hitter than can play centerfield. It would open up the possibility of using Patterson as a chip to acquire a bat for left.

 

As I was driving home, I was hoping Hendry would at least get involved in the Kotsay talks.

[swordsman]

While driving home from picking up Addison, they were discussing the Yankees getting Kotsay on the Show with Kennedy and Dibble. They mentioned Eric Duncan and Matt DeSalvo as the players the Yankees would use to get him. I think we could easily top that offer.

 

If we trade for Kotsay, it would provide a lead-off hitter than can play centerfield. It would open up the possibility of using Patterson as a chip to acquire a bat for left.

 

As I was driving home, I was hoping Hendry would at least get involved in the Kotsay talks.

 

Or, and I'm just spitballin' here, could you move Corey to left and let him hit at a different spot in the order more consistently?

[Elrhino]

Corey's lack of production is already a liability for a centerfielder. For a corner outfielder, especially a left fielder, its an absolute nightmare.

 

I wish there was some way we could get Beane to take Corey in a package for Kotsay, but there is no way he would take a $3 million salary for a .290 OBP player. Its only through a tools infatuated GM and a OBP ingnoring manager that Corey still keeps a starting roster spot.

[swordsman]

But I thought his lack of production was a function of how he was being used (misused) in the lineup.

 

(Mind you, filling out a lineup card is not my forte. I wish Dusty would quit asking me to do it for him.)

Edited June 20, 2005 by swordsman

[Elrhino]

But I thought his lack of production was a function of how he was being used (misused) in the lineup.

 

Yes, as if changing a bad baseball player into a good baseball player were only as easy as solidifying a lineup spot.

[Iceblink]

While driving home from picking up Addison, they were discussing the Yankees getting Kotsay on the Show with Kennedy and Dibble. They mentioned Eric Duncan and Matt DeSalvo as the players the Yankees would use to get him. I think we could easily top that offer.

 

If we trade for Kotsay, it would provide a lead-off hitter than can play centerfield. It would open up the possibility of using Patterson as a chip to acquire a bat for left.

 

As I was driving home, I was hoping Hendry would at least get involved in the Kotsay talks.

 

Or, and I'm just spitballin' here, could you move Corey to left and let him hit at a different spot in the order more consistently?

 

I think the move you suggest is on the radar for if/when Felix Pie is ready to take over in center.

 

I'd put a priority on an OPS guy in LF rather than Kotsay. Sure, you'd like to add someone like Kotsay AND an OPS guy in LF - but there are only so many prospects you can trade.

[UK1679666180]

I'd pass, set your sights higher, Kotsay does nothing to address the team's lack of ability of getting runners on base.

 

Right....

 

Kotsay has an OBP of .355 for 2002-05 (playing for the Marlins, Padres and now A's).

 

Yes, the Cubs couldn't use that at the top of the order at all.

 

On top of that he plays defence to die for. There isn't a CF I'd rather watch play defence that Kotsay. He glides around making everything look ridiculously easy.

 

He's the most underrated CF in the game by a mile. He only 29. He earns $5.5m this year and $5.5m next year (player option). Salaries would increase to $6.5m each year if he were traded.

 

If you gave me $6.5m a year and I could sign any CF in the game with that money, off the top of my head I can't think of a better choice than Kotsay.

 

That said, I'm still opposed to trading for him, because he'd be expensive in terms of prospects, as raw says. And I'm a Corey apologist.

 

Let's see, what has his EqA been over the last 3 years, about .275? He's off to a poor start this year, had a career of nagging injuries and will require a couple of top prospects to obtain. Would he help the team? Sure, b/c of the lack of talent in the OF moreso than Kotsay's talents. I think Hairston would have a similar OBP at the top, without the salary, prospects given up, and without the defense. So, since he's isn't solid enough offensively for a corner OF'er as neither is Hairston, Hollandsworth, Dubois, or Burnitz at this stage. I see a miminal upgrade offensively, especially since probably won't cut it as a corner OF'er.

[swordsman]

But I thought his lack of production was a function of how he was being used (misused) in the lineup.

 

Yes, as if changing a bad baseball player into a good baseball player were only as easy as solidifying a lineup spot.

 

I thought the jury was still out on Corey.

[Outshined_One]

If we get Kotsay, my guess is that the Corey Patterson era would officially come to an end. As much as I have rooted for Corey and wanted him to live up to his billing, I think the Cubs would be best served to use him as a bargaining chip. As much as we rip on him, teams won't be able to pass up on his upside, especially considering how young he is and how good of a defensive CF he is. Make no mistake, he'd draw plenty of interest if he were available.

 

I wouldn't be surprised to see him involved in a deal for a power hitting OF if we get Kotsay.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

If we get Kotsay, my guess is that the Corey Patterson era would officially come to an end. As much as I have rooted for Corey and wanted him to live up to his billing, I think the Cubs would be best served to use him as a bargaining chip. As much as we rip on him, teams won't be able to pass up on his upside, especially considering how young he is and how good of a defensive CF he is. Make no mistake, he'd draw plenty of interest if he were available.

 

I wouldn't be surprised to see him involved in a deal for a power hitting OF if we get Kotsay.

 

I agree. If the Cubs deal for Kotsay, I can see him being viewed as a stop gap in center until Pie is ready. Corey could be used as the chip to bring in the power corner outfield bat.

[CuseCubFan69]

But I thought his lack of production was a function of how he was being used (misused) in the lineup.

 

Yes, as if changing a bad baseball player into a good baseball player were only as easy as solidifying a lineup spot.

 

I thought the jury was still out on Corey.

 

They just finished the Jackson case so from what I've heard CPatt is next on the agenda. JC is going to be CPatt's lawyer and he's been recruiting fans to stand outside the courthouse to faint and chant when CPatt comes out.

Edited June 20, 2005 by CuseCubFan69

[SouthSideRyan]

Corey's lack of production is already a liability for a centerfielder. For a corner outfielder, especially a left fielder, its an absolute nightmare.

 

I wish there was some way we could get Beane to take Corey in a package for Kotsay, but there is no way he would take a $3 million salary for a .290 OBP player. Its only through a tools infatuated GM and a OBP ingnoring manager that Corey still keeps a starting roster spot.

 

Yep, The A's would never give playing time to a low OBP guy

[Wheelimus]

Trade for Kotsay, and turn around and trade Corey and a prospect or two to the Reds for Adam Dunn. :lol:

[nilodnayr]

Trade for Kotsay, and turn around and trade Corey and a prospect or two to the Reds for Adam Dunn. :lol:

 

Exactly what the Reds need...a third Centerfielder.

[Wheelimus]

Not like Corey can't shift to right or left...be it here or somewhere else.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Not like Corey can't shift to right or left...be it here or somewhere else.

 

At this point, I think Corey's value is as a centerfielder. If he shifts somewhere else, he has even less value.

[Diffusion]

I'd pass, set your sights higher, Kotsay does nothing to address the team's lack of ability of getting runners on base.

 

Right....

 

Kotsay has an OBP of .355 for 2002-05 (playing for the Marlins, Padres and now A's).

 

Yes, the Cubs couldn't use that at the top of the order at all.

 

On top of that he plays defence to die for. There isn't a CF I'd rather watch play defence that Kotsay. He glides around making everything look ridiculously easy.

 

He's the most underrated CF in the game by a mile. He only 29. He earns $5.5m this year and $5.5m next year (player option). Salaries would increase to $6.5m each year if he were traded.

 

If you gave me $6.5m a year and I could sign any CF in the game with that money, off the top of my head I can't think of a better choice than Kotsay.

 

That said, I'm still opposed to trading for him, because he'd be expensive in terms of prospects, as raw says. And I'm a Corey apologist.

 

Let's see, what has his EqA been over the last 3 years, about .275?

 

2000: .268

2001: .288

2002: .289

2003: .266

2004: .287

2005: .265

 

You've got two figures that keep recurring there. About .266 and about .288. Strange. .288 is very strong. .266 isn't, it's merely okay. I believe Kotsay at .266 is a .288 player disappointing though, as opposed to Kotsay at .288 being a .266 player playing over his head. There's a difference.

 

He's off to a poor start this year, had a career of nagging injuries and will require a couple of top prospects to obtain.

 

I wouldnt' say he's off to a poor start. Merely an okay one. I can't dispute either of your other two points. But if you read what I've said more closely, I'm not particularly in favor of acquiring Kotsay, despite being a big fan of his.

 

Would he help the team? Sure, b/c of the lack of talent in the OF moreso than Kotsay's talents.

 

But also because any player capable of repeatedly putting up .288 EqAs while playing excellent defence at a very important defensive position is worth having.

 

I think Hairston would have a similar OBP at the top, without the salary, prospects given up, and without the defense.

 

That defence being a pretty enormous difference. Hairston also has significantly less power. There's simply not a comparison between the two as all-round players, regardless of the fact their OBPs are likely to be similar. Also, more of Kotsay's OBP is driven by hits as opposed to hit by pitches, which makes a difference with runners on, for what that's worth.

 

So, since he's isn't solid enough offensively for a corner OF'er as neither is Hairston, Hollandsworth, Dubois, or Burnitz at this stage. I see a miminal upgrade offensively, especially since probably won't cut it as a corner OF'er.

 

Yes, but he's not a corner OF, which solves that "problem". If a team acquires Kotsay and puts him in one of the corners, they're certifiably crazy.

Edited June 21, 2005 by Diffusion