Dusty Bad Managerial Moves Thread

[Hairyducked Idiot]

April 5- Macias and Perez get ABs over Hairston and Dubois. Neifi Perez pinch hits with the game on the line and the Cubs down a run. The team's lone power threat off the bench sits and watches.

 

How do you make this a sticky?

Ok. Dubois .214 as a pinch hitter in his career in 16 plate appearances. Hairston Jr. .000 in 6. Granted not a whole lot of chances in their careers, but nothing says they can effectively pinch hit. Playing every day is different then being a good bench player. Macias .250 and Perez .306 in a combined over 200 at bats.

 

Can we sticky this in the Fantasy Baseball section? Or in Rants as just more whining? :roll:

 

But Dubois was hitting 1.000 as a pinch hitter this season!

[Careless]

How about a thread which is not used for discussion (a parallel thread could rant and rave about things) that had entries that listed Dusty's critical decisions, including the situation leading to them. This could lead to all kinds of different stats as the season moves forward. It would also show the good with the bad.

 

For instance, in game 1, I think the only decision that would get listed would be Zambrano's exit after 4 2/3. The DBacks could have gotten back in it if something wasn't done, and I'm not sure anyone disagrees with Dusty's decision. After the game was well in hand, the other moves were simply to get guys ABs.

 

Game 2 would be a longer list. Since the game was so close, all the decisions would be listed, pitching changes, pintch hitters/runners, and defensive subs.

 

It would take a lot of work, but hey, what else are we going to do.

 

This would also prevent people from being able to exaggerate positions, like... "Macias is always first of the bench!" "No, look, only 80% of the time is he first." :wink:

The other thing to do would be to list all the moves opposing managers made. we'd get a composite manager from that, to be used as an average manager for comparison

[Mizzou]

After thinking it over, I dont have too big of a problem with Macias pinch hitting - there were two down and if he made an out, which was expected, we had the top of the order up the next inning.

 

The Perez situation is simply inexcusable though. Game on the line and you have your WORST option up there. And also, why didn't Dusty run with Lee when Barrett (someone who can actually do something productive) was at the plate? I guess having Lee in scoring position with Barrett at the plate was too much trouble for Dusty to go through.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

After thinking it over, I dont have too big of a problem with Macias pinch hitting - there were two down and if he made an out, which was expected, we had the top of the order up the next inning.

 

The Perez situation is simply inexcusable though. Game on the line and you have your WORST option up there. And also, why didn't Dusty run with Lee when Barrett (someone who can actually do something productive) was at the plate? I guess having Lee in scoring position with Barrett at the plate was too much trouble for Dusty to go through.

 

My take exactly. I didn't like Macias hitting, but I can live with that. Perez hitting when a HR wins the game is just stupid.

[BigbadB]

The talk all offseason is that this Cub team needs to do more creative things to score runs. Game 2 was the perfect example of how you use that creativity to score at least one more run.

 

I had no problem with Macias hitting when he did (though I am on record that he has no business being on the team at all). I did have a problem with Walker sleeping on 2nd base on the first wild pitch. I did have a problem with not pinch running for Lee after he got a single. I did have a problem with Neifi Perez hitting in place of Dubois with the game on the line.

 

Lyon must have thrown 6 balls in the dirt. Heck, he threw 3 in the dirt when Burnitz was at the plate. Knowing this, how do you not get your speediest guy on base (Hairston) for the possible opportunity to advance on a wild pitch.

 

Just as Kasper so elequently put it in game one. You have to treat every game as if it is the most important game of the season. That's how you win the division. That's how you make the playoffs. If we are going to get past the Cardinals this year, it's going to take better decision making than the decisions that were made tonight to make that happen.

 

Period.

[JC]

I did have a problem with Walker sleeping on 2nd base on the first wild pitch.

 

I've seen this criticism a couple of times today and just wanted to toss one thing out there regarding this issue. I thought I saw ARam give Walker the stop sign at first, then waive him when he saw the ball bound away. From what I saw, the play developed awkwardly, but that was my first impression and I didn't see a replay. If I'm wrong about ARam, please let me know.

[BigbadB]

Walker was on 2nd and I believe Burnitz was at the plate when Walker virtually could have walked to 3rd base on the bad pitch.

[dime]

>In addition, people that get tired of the Dusty criticism could find solace in the fact that many of his questionable decisions will be limited to one thread and/or forum, rather than littering the board in multiple areas.

>

 

AWESOME. Where can I sign up to make this actually happen? The same forum could be used for "hendry is an idiot" and "sammy hit a homer today" threads.

[frostwyrm]

The only explanation I can come up with for the Perez PH is that Perez did very well in his 67 plate appearances as a Cub in 2004. Hollandsworth is also a starter based on limited 2004 action, and Dusty said he actually asked Hendry to bring back Randall Simon based on his 110 PA as a Cub in 2003, and Macias is still coasting on his 11-20 four day hot streak from last year. What is disturbing is that Dusty is so damn impressionable to the giddy effects of hot streaks, even when everyone else in the world knows they will end. Dusty actually makes long-term plans based on them.

[JC]

Walker was on 2nd and I believe Burnitz was at the plate when Walker virtually could have walked to 3rd base on the bad pitch.

 

Oh. I thought when you said first wild pitch, you were talking about the one pitched to ARam right before Burnitz's AB.

 

That entire sequence, however, felt like 2004. After all of the offseason talk about how the offense would be different by "creating" runs, it didn't see all that different to me after getting men at 2nd and 3rd with no outs. Of course, that was just one sequence out of hundreds that will follow.

[JC]

>In addition, people that get tired of the Dusty criticism could find solace in the fact that many of his questionable decisions will be limited to one thread and/or forum, rather than littering the board in multiple areas.

>

 

AWESOME. Where can I sign up to make this actually happen? The same forum could be used for "hendry is an idiot" and "sammy hit a homer today" threads.

 

Dime, is there a reason you don't simply use the "quote" function in your posts? Just curious.

[cubs dane]

I dont understand why Dustys managerial moves would even be a issue here. This is a discussion board, he is the manager of our team, to put him above reproach to me is ridiculous.

I personally think Baker is not a good manager. You can say anything you want about that. Agree or Disagree. But why would I try to CONTROL the positive posts? It doesnt make sense to me. I think thats what this board is all about, freedom of opinion and thoughts. If someone thinks hes good, thats fine by me. It wont change my mine, unless Dusty has a change in style, Ill think what I want.

[ZZ Thorn]

LOL, how can there be 6 pages on this after one game?

 

For the record, I do not support Dusty in all instances fer crissakes - we are not related, LOL! He makes some bad mangerial moves IMO, as I imagine every fan thinks of their coach.

 

All I ever objected to was the trashing of everything Dusty said or did without fairness. Some people really went off the deep end IMO in their Dusty Busting. In game situations are fair game to object to tho - they're endless. In game is much different than the crap I heard in the off season. No one is looking for my ok of course, but bust away on those. It was the media's constant bias against Dusty in the off season that ticked me off and caused me to defend him like I did. Now its go time and he better do his job right.

 

I wasn't thrilled when he took out Z, but Rusch was a lefty, it was a crucial situation, Z was losing it, it worked out so I guess he made the right move.

 

Macias was the only lefty last night. I'd much rather have seen Holla in there late in the game, but he was 75% of our offense last night so what can you do. With no one on at least he saved Neifi for a better situation. Went with the L/R percentages as most do....

 

I would have much rather seen Dubois in the 9th, but I can see going with the veteran Neifi in that situation. It almost worked, but Clayton made a great play. Not thrilled about that call, but not upset either. That's my take.

Edited April 6, 2005 by ZZ Thorn

[Mark_R]

I don't mind the fact that you can disagree with a move, heck I do that all the time. I hope, it can objective at the same time.

 

In the context of this board, I don't like the impression that "we're" out to get Baker, I don't think it leads to a correct/positive interpretation of us. If you disagree with a move, provide some reasons, I disagree with the way the Cubs handled Zambrano; 14 of his 31 starts, I thought they extended him in situations when he needed to be extended. But, to say "Dusty is an idiot" or "fire Dusty" provides nothing IMO.

 

Your latter statement is a huge reason why I dislike Dusty. He has three world class young arms on the staff and he often abuses them in blowouts when its simply not necessary.

[dime]

quote? I guess everyone uses the cgi ez board things now, huh? The smiley faces and fake html and stuff.

 

I suppose I should adapt...I am used to the old newsgroup quoting method.

 

Is there a reason it bothers you so? Just curious.

[ZZ Thorn]

I read the thread (it was mostly the offseason all over again), I didn't realize Dusty could have used Hairston instead of Macias, which I would have done. I'm not privvy to all the info Dusty has, i.e. not just info that fans get thru stats, but knowlege like if Hairston is bad against a certain type of pitcher, etc., and I give him the benefit of the doubt. That's just the way my mind works - I don't assume I had a different solution that would have definitley worked.

 

I think 2 threads would be ideal: one in Rants for the Busters to flame on, one here in Baseball cuz these are supposed to be baseball discussions and not personal flames, which they inevitably turn into when some feel exasperated. I don't know if it's practical to expect people and especially moderators to divide the two up between the intelligent baseball posts and the "Ooooh Dusty makes me so mad" posts, which is like half the thread. But, and it's a big but, I do think criticizing the manager is a part of serious baseball discussions so I for one wouldn't mind this being a sticky.

 

Again tho, LOL, I'm not aginst criticizing Dusty for in-game situations. He often deserves them (as every manager does in a loss), he's not a great tactician in my book. Its the never-ending doomsdaying personal vitrol that I get annoyed with. It's this vitrol that some people can't refrain from boring us with that ruins a good, intelligent thread tho. I could have posted 500 times "Why hasn't Hendry resigned ARam yet," but I didn't, cuz it would have added nothing to that Transactions thread.

 

But as for my opinion on managers in general, I believe the manager knows a lot more than I do. I also think they often go on 'hunches' and have info that is supporting that hunch. I also think they're trying to win. So I personally think its pretty futile to rant endlessly about the manager's decisions. But to each their own rants.

 

I think UK makes a lot of good points that NSBB is a respected place for Cubs info and that the world's biggest Dusty bashing thread will naturally hurt our image of sensibility in an internet world full of uninformed and angry flamers. If we can really just discuss baseball rather than flame Dusty half the time, it will have value tho.

Edited April 6, 2005 by ZZ Thorn

[Lefty]

You're right. But Baker still su**s.

[ZZ Thorn]

You're right. But Baker still su**s.

 

See, like this, put this in rants. There's no baseball info here. Tho I may have been annoying in my describing of Dusty Busters, at least I had things like facts and reasons. Whatever tho, I know I post dumb stuff just for fun too so I'm not pretending to be above stuff like the above post.

 

I think Tim will have fun savoring his decision and being the final arbiter of this fate of this thread: it has merits, but does it really, what about posts like the above, can we create a thread that criticizes Dusty intelligently without the flamers??? Heavy is the head that wears the crown....

[frostwyrm]

Macias was the only lefty last night. I'd much rather have seen Holla in there late in the game, but he was 75% of our offense last night so what can you do. With no one on at least he saved Neifi for a better situation. Went with the L/R percentages as most do....

 

I would have much rather seen Dubois in the 9th, but I can see going with the veteran Neifi in that situation. It almost worked, but Clayton made a great play. Not thrilled about that call, but not upset either. That's my take.

 

This might be the first time in history anyone has talked about "saving" Neifi's bat. And I can see why you're not disturbed by Dusty's PH philosophy: you share his exaggerated respect for L/R matchups. Yeah, Neifi can swing a bat left-handed, but he is REALLY bad at it.

[erik316wttn]

The talk all offseason is that this Cub team needs to do more creative things to score runs. Game 2 was the perfect example of how you use that creativity to score at least one more run.

 

I had no problem with Macias hitting when he did (though I am on record that he has no business being on the team at all). I did have a problem with Walker sleeping on 2nd base on the first wild pitch. I did have a problem with not pinch running for Lee after he got a single. I did have a problem with Neifi Perez hitting in place of Dubois with the game on the line.

 

Lyon must have thrown 6 balls in the dirt. Heck, he threw 3 in the dirt when Burnitz was at the plate. Knowing this, how do you not get your speediest guy on base (Hairston) for the possible opportunity to advance on a wild pitch.

 

Just as Kasper so elequently put it in game one. You have to treat every game as if it is the most important game of the season. That's how you win the division. That's how you make the playoffs. If we are going to get past the Cardinals this year, it's going to take better decision making than the decisions that were made tonight to make that happen.

 

Period.

 

Exactly. Games in April count just as much in the standings as games in August or September. If a team (not just the Cubs, any team) misses a playoff spot by one game, they can maybe look back to a game they had in hand in April and blew because of poor fundimentals or bad managing.

 

Games in the first week of the season are important, too. Any game that counts is important. Guys should be playing thier butts off and hustling just as hard now as they would in the last week of the season with the playoffs on the line. There is no excuse not to.

 

Play hard, or don't play at all.

[frostwyrm]

It is disappointing to see lackadaisical baserunning in game 2 of 2005 when everyone knew that was a big problem all through 2004.

[ZZ Thorn]

Macias was the only lefty last night. I'd much rather have seen Holla in there late in the game, but he was 75% of our offense last night so what can you do. With no one on at least he saved Neifi for a better situation. Went with the L/R percentages as most do....

 

I would have much rather seen Dubois in the 9th, but I can see going with the veteran Neifi in that situation. It almost worked, but Clayton made a great play. Not thrilled about that call, but not upset either. That's my take.

 

This might be the first time in history anyone has talked about "saving" Neifi's bat. And I can see why you're not disturbed by Dusty's PH philosophy: you share his exaggerated respect for L/R matchups. Yeah, Neifi can swing a bat left-handed, but he is REALLY bad at it.

 

Well, I mistakenly thought we had used Hairston. And I think Neifi is Teddy "Ballgame" Williams compared to Macias, so I would 'save' him if all I had left was Macias, LOL!

 

I think the L/R matchup thing is pretty widespread. I'd say it's very widespread. I think Dusty is one among almost everybody on that one. Some like LaRussa are constant stat-checkers, but most believe strongly in the L/R thing from what I've seen.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Macias was the only lefty last night. I'd much rather have seen Holla in there late in the game, but he was 75% of our offense last night so what can you do. With no one on at least he saved Neifi for a better situation. Went with the L/R percentages as most do....

 

I would have much rather seen Dubois in the 9th, but I can see going with the veteran Neifi in that situation. It almost worked, but Clayton made a great play. Not thrilled about that call, but not upset either. That's my take.

 

This might be the first time in history anyone has talked about "saving" Neifi's bat. And I can see why you're not disturbed by Dusty's PH philosophy: you share his exaggerated respect for L/R matchups. Yeah, Neifi can swing a bat left-handed, but he is REALLY bad at it.

 

Well, I mistakenly thought we had used Hairston. And I think Neifi is Teddy "Ballgame" Williams compared to Macias, so I would 'save' him if all I had left was Macias, LOL!

 

I think the L/R matchup thing is pretty widespread. I'd say it's very widespread. I think Dusty is one among almost everybody on that one. Some like LaRussa are constant stat-checkers, but most believe strongly in the L/R thing from what I've seen.

 

L/R strategy is conventional wisdom, that the lefty will pick the ball up better vs. a righty, and vice versa. However, when you have a lefty who cannot hit right handed pitching(Macias, Perez) and a righty who can (Hairston), it doesn't make sense to play the L/R matchup.

[neely crenshaw]

... perhaps with holla as the projected starter, hendry maybe should have signed a real left handed bat off the bench.

it all goes back to the fact that besides nomar we filled in a bunch of scrubs.

that being said i would certainly take my chances with dubois against anyone over macias.

[minnesotacubsfan]

 

L/R strategy is conventional wisdom, that the lefty will pick the ball up better vs. a righty, and vice versa. However, when you have a lefty who cannot hit right handed pitching(Macias, Perez) and a righty who can (Hairston), it doesn't make sense to play the L/R matchup.

 

or if that bench player is jose macias. period.