Dusty Bad Managerial Moves Thread

[AFCubsFan]

It seems that with this logic if Neifi had gone 4 for 4 with 4 grand slams you would still make the same statement. That, my friend, makes you a Buster on this occasion. Try being logical for a change rather than emotional.

 

You stat freaks just don't seem to get it...there are variables to take into account that you have no idea of. You think in every situation you go with a .275 hitter over the .270 hitter - nobody who coaches in baseball agrees with that.

 

What's funny is that you take a huge generalization, a .275 average, and you apply to every single individual case and assume that you know with 100% authority when you will be right and when you will be wrong, which of course you do not. Yet in real life, when dealing with people and ideas, I bet you try to avoid making generalizations to allow for these individual cases which you so arrogantly ignore in baseball.

 

I would suggest learning how to apply the scientific method, logic, and the process of generalizations in all phases of your life. It will improve it.

 

Sorry, but, take those 2 pages of this thread out, playing Perez was the right move today. Na-nanny-boo boo stick your head in poo-poo.

 

I don't care if Neifi went 12 for 12 and hit an 8 run homer, putting him in over Hairston was stupid. I really dont see how you can defend this.

 

That is the silliest thing I've read in a long time. It shows you just think stats are the end-all be-all. You really must think that because you have a book full of stats you are qualified to be a professional baseball manager. Your statement just defies basic understanding of the practicalities of a 162+ game baseball season - practically nobody plays 162 games a year, as the manager you have to decide when to pull the string on a bench player.

 

What are your stats for that? Oh, you'd just play your best players 162 games a year, cuz there's no stat for 'tiredness'. Even in the hot Wrigley summers. Like the '69 Cubs. God, it's not as simple as you believe it to be. Sometimes Perez over Hairston is the right move.

 

God, the arrogance of the stat worshippers....

 

Hairston Jr must be very tired since he's been so overused. Same with Dubois. Or maybe their tired from the switch to daylight savings time. Maybe they're tired from actually being successful batters in the past. It takes a lot out of a player I guess. Neifi and Macias wouldn't understand. They normally get the advantage of never having to run the bases.

[ZZ Thorn]

How is the ability to bunt a player over a good thing in the grand scheme of things? I view it as he bunted him over b/c he would not have been able to do it via a hit. If your #2 hitter can't hit a runner over to 2B or single to get him to 3rd, he doesn't belong out there.

 

See, again you are exaggerating. I'm not talking about the grand scheme. I'm talking about one play in one game where getting the bunt down and the runner over for your 3-4-5 guys to knock in is a success. Neifi did it. He didn't hit a home run, but that's much harder to do than get a bunt down, which is still hard to do.

 

The ability to bunt a player over wins and loses a lot of games, I don't know who would disagree with that.

[AFCubsFan]

How is the ability to bunt a player over a good thing in the grand scheme of things? I view it as he bunted him over b/c he would not have been able to do it via a hit. If your #2 hitter can't hit a runner over to 2B or single to get him to 3rd, he doesn't belong out there.

 

See, again you are exaggerating. I'm not talking about the grand scheme. I'm talking about one play in one game where getting the bunt down and the runner over for your 3-4-5 guys to knock in is a success. Neifi did it. He didn't hit a home run, but that's much harder to do than get a bunt down, which is still hard to do.

 

The ability to bunt a player over wins and loses a lot of games, I don't know who would disagree with that.

 

I'm sure there are several pitchers on the bench who could have come in to lay down a sac bunt. The sad thing is that some of the pitchers may be better hitters than Neifi if given the same amount of AB's in their careers.

[ZZ Thorn]

Why do people still bother to argue about dusty with zz? It's an exercise in futility if there ever was one. We're right, he's wrong, move on.

 

Why do I even bother to bring up Dusty's successes to the Dusty Busters? Even when he makes the right move, they won't say it was the right move. Whatever they would have done would have been more productive.

 

The arrogance of these people who think they're so much better than Dusty is annoying. I wouldn't imagine they'd be successful high school coaches much less profesional managers, LOL. They'd have to call time before every pitch to consult their stat texts. And they'd still be wrong a bunch of the time, not that they every think they can be wrong.

 

Whatever.

[UK1679666180]

Getting a hit is much harder to do than a sac. out as well. Using Perez in that situation makes it even more difficult to get a hit, since he has more trouble doing that than the majority. I don't blame Dusty for bunting w/Perez, I would have done the same and for me to bunt w/a non-pitcher, speaks volumes on what I think of that player's offensive abilities.

[ZZ Thorn]

What are your stats for that? Oh, you'd just play your best players 162 games a year, cuz there's no stat for 'tiredness'. Even in the hot Wrigley summers. Like the '69 Cubs. God, it's not as simple as you believe it to be. Sometimes Perez over Hairston is the right move.

 

How can Hairston be tired, did he ride his bike from Naperville?

 

Way to take my stuff out of context. Are you trying to understand at all, or are you just totally closed to other opinions.

 

If you look at the paragraph that preceeded the one you quoted you'd see I was making an example of the stat philosophy. Take it out of context, focus on the most insignificant and in fact not truthful point (that Hairston was tired) and you come out looking correct. Way to go, that's real tough to do.

 

"That is the silliest thing I've read in a long time. It shows you just think stats are the end-all be-all. You really must think that because you have a book full of stats you are qualified to be a professional baseball manager. Your statement just defies basic understanding of the practicalities of a 162+ game baseball season - practically nobody plays 162 games a year, as the manager you have to decide when to pull the string on a bench player. "

 

The bolded part was the point. People aren't taking practicality into account, they're just looking at stat sheets and assuming them to be infalliable, when they're only general when prediticting future behaviors.

[ltb]

Are you trying to understand at all, or are you just totally closed to other opinions.

 

lol

[CoolHandLuke]

What are your stats for that? Oh, you'd just play your best players 162 games a year, cuz there's no stat for 'tiredness'. Even in the hot Wrigley summers. Like the '69 Cubs. God, it's not as simple as you believe it to be. Sometimes Perez over Hairston is the right move.

 

How can Hairston be tired, did he ride his bike from Naperville?

 

oh man this comment is one of the funniest things i've read on here.

[CoolHandLuke]

I am sick of all the Dusty Lusters who try to blindly defend every bad move he makes just because they love him so much....

[UK1679666180]

I'm closed to opinions that offer nothing and do nothing but attack.

[ZZ Thorn]

It must really rankle you Dusty Busters that Dusty Baker is more successful than you'll ever be. He's better paid, more well-liked, probably had more and better gals then you, and when it's all said and done and it's in the history books he will be remembered as a good manager. And no one will remember you.

 

And on top of this, he's ruining your Cubs. And he'll probably finish out his contract - your protests are going to go totally unheeded. LOL, it's such a waste of energy!

 

It's kinda sad, when I put it in these real life terms, isn't it? I feel for you.

 

Me, I give Dusty credit when it's due, like with Neifi today, and I'd rather elevate than denigrate anyway, makes me happier. To point out every little flaw doesn't do it for me either.

 

What it comes down to for me, is that when y'all can't even give credit to the guy when a move he makes turns out well, that's just sad.

[UK1679666180]

What are your stats for that? Oh, you'd just play your best players 162 games a year, cuz there's no stat for 'tiredness'. Even in the hot Wrigley summers. Like the '69 Cubs. God, it's not as simple as you believe it to be. Sometimes Perez over Hairston is the right move.

 

How can Hairston be tired, did he ride his bike from Naperville?

 

oh man this comment is one of the funniest things i've read on here.

 

Even I had a chuckle after I wrote it.

[imb]

It seems that with this logic if Neifi had gone 4 for 4 with 4 grand slams you would still make the same statement. That, my friend, makes you a Buster on this occasion. Try being logical for a change rather than emotional.

 

You stat freaks just don't seem to get it...there are variables to take into account that you have no idea of. You think in every situation you go with a .275 hitter over the .270 hitter - nobody who coaches in baseball agrees with that.

 

What's funny is that you take a huge generalization, a .275 average, and you apply to every single individual case and assume that you know with 100% authority when you will be right and when you will be wrong, which of course you do not. Yet in real life, when dealing with people and ideas, I bet you try to avoid making generalizations to allow for these individual cases which you so arrogantly ignore in baseball.

 

I would suggest learning how to apply the scientific method, logic, and the process of generalizations in all phases of your life. It will improve it.

 

Sorry, but, take those 2 pages of this thread out, playing Perez was the right move today. Na-nanny-boo boo stick your head in poo-poo.

 

I don't care if Neifi went 12 for 12 and hit an 8 run homer, putting him in over Hairston was stupid. I really dont see how you can defend this.

 

That is the silliest thing I've read in a long time. It shows you just think stats are the end-all be-all. You really must think that because you have a book full of stats you are qualified to be a professional baseball manager. Your statement just defies basic understanding of the practicalities of a 162+ game baseball season - practically nobody plays 162 games a year, as the manager you have to decide when to pull the string on a bench player.

 

What are your stats for that? Oh, you'd just play your best players 162 games a year, cuz there's no stat for 'tiredness'. Even in the hot Wrigley summers. Like the '69 Cubs. God, it's not as simple as you believe it to be. Sometimes Perez over Hairston is the right move.

 

God, the arrogance of the stat worshippers....

 

Keep grasping at straws and making assumptions. If you seriously think that playing a person that is statistically worse than someone else is a good idea, if you really believe that, and you arent just being obtuse because arguing on the internet gives you a stiffy, well, I dont know what. Have fun talking to yourself for the next 155 games.

[ZZ Thorn]

I'm closed to opinions that offer nothing and do nothing but attack.

 

That offer nothing...yeah. Neifi did terrible today. You guys hit the nail on the head. All those posts that were so certain, they really offered me a ton.

[ZZ Thorn]

Keep grasping at straws and making assumptions. If you seriously think that playing a person that is statistically worse than someone else is a good idea, if you really believe that, and you arent just being obtuse because arguing on the internet gives you a stiffy, well, I dont know what. Have fun talking to yourself for the next 155 games.

 

I'd really call someone who thought stats were the answer to every situation, who didn't take into account circumstances and particulars, to be the dense one.

[imb]

Keep grasping at straws and making assumptions. If you seriously think that playing a person that is statistically worse than someone else is a good idea, if you really believe that, and you arent just being obtuse because arguing on the internet gives you a stiffy, well, I dont know what. Have fun talking to yourself for the next 155 games.

 

I'd really call someone who thought stats were the answer to every situation, who didn't take into account circumstances and particulars, to be the dense one.

 

So I guess we disagree then, my god, when did that start happening?

[SouthSideRyan]

If going 1 for 4 with a sacrifice out is considered a success for Perez, how terrible of a hitter is he?

 

I would expect Hairston to outproduce those numbers on a daily basis as well as over the duration of the season.

 

Care to explain Macias over Dubois (again)?

 

He was 1 for 3 with a sacrifice. It's hard to rail on him for making an out when he was ordered to sacrifice. I too would expect Hairston to outdo a 333 OBP throughout the year, but Eaton was on today, I'm ecstatic that Neifi managed a hit.

 

There's no excuse for Macias over Dubois.

 

I don't considered the sacrifice out as a way to escape the 1 for 4. He was asked to sacrifice, b/c he is and has been a terrible hitter, hitting 2nd.

 

I'm ecstatic Perez got a hit, more surprised than ecstatic, doesn't mean he should've been out there over a superior hitter like Hairston or even an unknown product like Fontenot.

 

If Hairston or Walker wer in the game, they're sacrificing there. It was the tying run on 1st with nobody out and the 3-4-5 hitters due up next. It had nothing to do with Neifi's skills as a hitter other than that he's not a middle of the order guy.

[UK1679666180]

Well, I would have used Patterson on a straight steal, so I would more than likely have bunted the runner to 3rd (assuming Patterson was safe)with Perez or Hairston, Walker I probably would have let swing away (LH, pull hitter, good bat control). If Patterson was thrown out, I lost being aggressive.

 

Now, bunting a runner to 2B, I would have let Hairston and Walker swing away. The out is more important than moving the runner to 2B, which I can't say the same thing for moving him to 3B.

[frostwyrm]

I'm closed to opinions that offer nothing and do nothing but attack.

 

That offer nothing...yeah. Neifi did terrible today. You guys hit the nail on the head. All those posts that were so certain, they really offered me a ton.

 

You probably would have defended Dusty playing Lenny Harris every time Lenny got a hit. He did get 24 hits for the Cubs, so I guess he was awesome. He even hit a home run once. How did we let him get away?

[minnesotacubsfan]

I will say Perez had a good day. but unless either baker stops using macias to pinch hit or all of the sudden macias turns in ROD F@#$(%@ CAREW IM GOING TO HAVE A BLOW OUT. SERIOUSLY, WHAT GIVES DUSTY? SO YOU REALLY THIN WHEN WE ARE DOWN BY ONE RUN MACIAS IS THE GUY TO GET US TIED?????????????????????

[SouthSideRyan]

Well, I would have used Patterson on a straight steal, so I would more than likely have bunted the runner to 3rd (assuming Patterson was safe)with Perez or Hairston, Walker I probably would have let swing away (LH, pull hitter, good bat control). If Patterson was thrown out, I lost being aggressive.

 

Now, bunting a runner to 2B, I would have let Hairston and Walker swing away. The out is more important than moving the runner to 2B, which I can't say the same thing for moving him to 3B.

 

But you weren't managing, Dusty was. Blame him for calling the sac bunt, don't blame Neifi for laying it down.

[imb]

This thread isnt called "Neifi's bad hitting experience", so I think that is what were doing.

[UK1679666180]

Well, I would have used Patterson on a straight steal, so I would more than likely have bunted the runner to 3rd (assuming Patterson was safe)with Perez or Hairston, Walker I probably would have let swing away (LH, pull hitter, good bat control). If Patterson was thrown out, I lost being aggressive.

 

Now, bunting a runner to 2B, I would have let Hairston and Walker swing away. The out is more important than moving the runner to 2B, which I can't say the same thing for moving him to 3B.

 

But you weren't managing, Dusty was. Blame him for calling the sac bunt, don't blame Neifi for laying it down.

 

I can say what I would've done, nothing wrong with that, some would do it differently. I don't blame Dusty for bunting with Perez, I would have as well w/Perez. I don't blame Perez for not missing the sign, I blame Dusty for starting an inferior player and keeping him out there in a critical situation.

[CoolHandLuke]

It must really rankle you Dusty Busters that Dusty Baker is more successful than you'll ever be. He's better paid, more well-liked, probably had more and better gals then you, and when it's all said and done and it's in the history books he will be remembered as a good manager. And no one will remember you.

 

And on top of this, he's ruining your Cubs. And he'll probably finish out his contract - your protests are going to go totally unheeded. LOL, it's such a waste of energy!

 

It's kinda sad, when I put it in these real life terms, isn't it? I feel for you.

 

Me, I give Dusty credit when it's due, like with Neifi today, and I'd rather elevate than denigrate anyway, makes me happier. To point out every little flaw doesn't do it for me either.

 

What it comes down to for me, is that when y'all can't even give credit to the guy when a move he makes turns out well, that's just sad.

 

 

Dude, It wasnt' the right move, man! I bet if we played this exact game under the exact same conditions 200 times, 100 w/ neifi starting and 100 with hairston starting then hairston would perform better than neifi, in fact if it were possible I would bet everything I own on it. Bakers job is not to just get lucky with his moves, it is to make the moves with the greatest chance of making the team succeed. When he makes a bad move that turns out not all that bad he absolutely does not deserve any credit as you say he does. Neifi starting was the absolute wrong move and that you cannot see that blows my mind.

[abuck1220]

It must really rankle you Dusty Busters that Dusty Baker is more successful than you'll ever be. He's better paid, more well-liked, probably had more and better gals then you, and when it's all said and done and it's in the history books he will be remembered as a good manager. And no one will remember you.

 

And on top of this, he's ruining your Cubs. And he'll probably finish out his contract - your protests are going to go totally unheeded. LOL, it's such a waste of energy!

 

It's kinda sad, when I put it in these real life terms, isn't it? I feel for you.

 

Me, I give Dusty credit when it's due, like with Neifi today, and I'd rather elevate than denigrate anyway, makes me happier. To point out every little flaw doesn't do it for me either.

 

What it comes down to for me, is that when y'all can't even give credit to the guy when a move he makes turns out well, that's just sad.

 

speaking of a sad waste of energy...

 

It must really rankle you Dusty Busters that Dusty Baker is more successful than you'll ever be. He's better paid, more well-liked, probably had more and better gals then you, and when it's all said and done and it's in the history books he will be remembered as a good manager. And no one will remember you.

 

And on top of this, he's ruining your Cubs. And he'll probably finish out his contract - your protests are going to go totally unheeded. LOL, it's such a waste of energy!

 

It's kinda sad, when I put it in these real life terms, isn't it? I feel for you.

 

Me, I give Dusty credit when it's due, like with Neifi today, and I'd rather elevate than denigrate anyway, makes me happier. To point out every little flaw doesn't do it for me either.

 

What it comes down to for me, is that when y'all can't even give credit to the guy when a move he makes turns out well, that's just sad.