Dusty Bad Managerial Moves Thread

[sandberg23]

I've always been on the fence with Dusty. Tonight was the final straw for me as well.

 

I was upset when Macias pinch hit....but letting Perez hit with the game on the line and Dubois and Hairston on the bench was inexcusable.

 

This is exactly how I feel. I've never really gone against Dusty but tonight was just stupid. Plain stupid...Neifi in the 9th??? :x

[don_kessinger_was_good]

I hated Baker before the Cubs even hired him. He's ignorant. If you watched the Giants at all in the 90s, you know that. You can count on one hand the number of SF fans who were sorry to see his moronic butt out of town. I never wanted this stooge hired, "good with the players" and "guys want to play for Dusty", that's crap. Sure, deadbeats with no business being on a major league roster LOVE playing for Dusty, no kidding!!

 

And to the poster earlier who brought up the NLCS, you got that right. Talk all you want about K-Gonz and Bartman, Baker cost us that series when he brought in Guthrie and later Veres, my God, I still have nightmares.

 

But hey dude, that's the break, dude, these veterans can play dude. What a nitwit.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

I hated Baker before the Cubs even hired him. He's ignorant. If you watched the Giants at all in the 90s, you know that. You can count on one hand the number of SF fans who were sorry to see his moronic butt out of town. I never wanted this stooge hired, "good with the players" and "guys want to play for Dusty", that's crap. Sure, deadbeats with no business being on a major league roster LOVE playing for Dusty, no kidding!!

 

And to the poster earlier who brought up the NLCS, you got that right. Talk all you want about K-Gonz and Bartman, Baker cost us that series when he brought in Guthrie and later Veres, my God, I still have nightmares.

 

But hey dude, that's the break, dude, these veterans can play dude. What a nitwit.

 

I deal with many Giants fans out here and I have yet to find one who isn't glad he's gone. Quite a few actually apologized when the Cubs signed him.

[Chris]

How many games can we look back to and say that a move Dusty made in the game definitely gave us a win. I know alot of praise and/or blame is given based on whether a move is successful, but the PH moves tonight were not the best moves he could've made.

[ltb]

I've always been on the fence with Dusty. Tonight was the final straw for me as well.

 

I was upset when Macias pinch hit....but letting Perez hit with the game on the line and Dubois and Hairston on the bench was inexcusable.

 

i felt exactly this way, too.

 

unbelievable.

[treebird]

Why are people so upset about the game tonight? I mean, yeah, it was stupid, but I can't say I was even the least bit surprised about either move. This was pretty basic Dusty on display. Why is it that people are changing their opinion on the man based on his doing what he always does? He's the same guy he was a week ago.

[OnTheBeach]

This blurb from Rotoworld.com's Brandon Lyon summary sums it up well.

 

So, who do you want up while down 5-4 with a man on first and two outs in the bottom of the ninth? If you're Dusty Baker, you choose Neifi Perez, of course, even with Jerry Hairston Jr. and Jason Dubois still sitting on the bench. If not for the fact that he bailed the Diamondbacks out of a jam in the eighth, we're not sure Lyon would deserve credit for a save. Neifi Perez

[imb]

Why are people so upset about the game tonight? I mean, yeah, it was stupid, but I can't say I was even the least bit surprised about either move. This was pretty basic Dusty on display. Why is it that people are changing their opinion on the man based on his doing what he always does? He's the same guy he was a week ago.

 

I was wondering the same thing, were you not around last season? Or the season before that? The reason im pissed is because i was hoping things.had.changed.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Why are people so upset about the game tonight? I mean, yeah, it was stupid, but I can't say I was even the least bit surprised about either move. This was pretty basic Dusty on display. Why is it that people are changing their opinion on the man based on his doing what he always does? He's the same guy he was a week ago.

 

I was wondering the same thing, were you not around last season? Or the season before that? The reason im pissed is because i was hoping things.had.changed.

 

Yeah.

 

This was just the last straw for me.

[CoolHandLuke]

Not sure if this would qualify for this thread but it was something I noticed none the less. He brought in Remlinger in an inning when two of the first three hitters were lefties after he already acknowledged his reverse splits. About the Perez pinch hit, come on guys! We all know that righties like Hairston and Dubois cannot hit righties even when they are better hitters than lefty options!

[Shilzzz]

so who do you guys suggest be our new coach?

[burnt out cubbie fan]

Joe Torre! He's the greatest coach in the history of organized sport!

[imb]

so who do you guys suggest be our new coach?

 

A warm body.

 

Seriously, you have to be asleep at the wheel to bat Neifi Perez in that situation. He was signed as a defensive backup. You're telling me that we traded Sosa for a player who isn't even going to be the FIRST PLAYER OFF THE BENCH.

 

Kill me if every game is like this this year.

[frostwyrm]

With just a one-run lead to work with, Brandon Lyon got five outs against the Cubs tonight for a save in his Diamondbacks debut.

So, who do you want up while down 5-4 with a man on first and two outs in the bottom of the ninth? If you're Dusty Baker, you choose Neifi Perez, of course, even with Jerry Hairston Jr. and Jason Dubois still sitting on the bench. If not for the fact that he bailed the Diamondbacks out of a jam in the eighth, we're not sure Lyon would deserve credit for a save. Neifi Perez.

http://fantasybaseball.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_previousnews.asp?sport=MLB&leaguenum=&id=6775

 

"Neifi Perez". Those two words say it all.

[Careless]

I'm starting to think Dusty talks to his toothpicks.

 

And when ZZ reads my re-cap, I'll officially be a Dusty Buster as well.

 

I've been a frusty-rated with Dusty since the 2003 NLCS

 

I was surprised that his horrible managing in the 2003 NLCS didn't throw me over the top.

 

Bringing in Guthrie because he'd rather face Lowell than Lenny Freaking Harris in Game 1.

Do you really believe dusty was thinking that far ahead there?

[Careless]

How many games can we look back to and say that a move Dusty made in the game definitely gave us a win. I know alot of praise and/or blame is given based on whether a move is successful, but the PH moves tonight were not the best moves he could've made.

A win that a different move wouldn't have given? 0. You just can't tell. However, the question should be "what % of his moves work out?"

 

Using Neifi to PH in the 9th with a man on down a run

Pass [ ] Fail [x]

 

While we're on the subject, does anyone here get the feeling that dusty would be horrible at chess?

[don_kessinger_was_good]

so who do you guys suggest be our new coach?

 

Riggleman is available. He was a good manager, run out of town by Sosa's sideshow.

 

Who remembers the debates from two years ago regarding the pros and cons of Showalter? He won just a couple games less than the Cubs last year with a Texas team half as talented.

 

Our guy in AAA is pretty damn good.

[frostwyrm]

I'm starting to think Dusty talks to his toothpicks.

 

And when ZZ reads my re-cap, I'll officially be a Dusty Buster as well.

 

I've been a frusty-rated with Dusty since the 2003 NLCS

 

I was surprised that his horrible managing in the 2003 NLCS didn't throw me over the top.

 

Bringing in Guthrie because he'd rather face Lowell than Lenny Freaking Harris in Game 1.

Do you really believe dusty was thinking that far ahead there?

Yeah, after the game a reporter asked about the Lowell/Guthrie matchup and Dusty specifically metioned Lenny Harris as a reason why Guthrie was put in instead of a righty reliever. Pretty amazing that Dusty found a way to make Harris hurt us both as a Cubs player and as a Cubs opponent, cause normally Harris only hurts his own team.

[Careless]

I'm starting to think Dusty talks to his toothpicks.

 

And when ZZ reads my re-cap, I'll officially be a Dusty Buster as well.

 

I've been a frusty-rated with Dusty since the 2003 NLCS

 

I was surprised that his horrible managing in the 2003 NLCS didn't throw me over the top.

 

Bringing in Guthrie because he'd rather face Lowell than Lenny Freaking Harris in Game 1.

Do you really believe dusty was thinking that far ahead there?

Yeah, after the game a reporter asked about the Lowell/Guthrie matchup and Dusty specifically metioned Lenny Harris as a reason why Guthrie was put in instead of a righty reliever. Pretty amazing that Dusty found a way to make Harris hurt us both as a Cubs player and as a Cubs opponent, cause normally Harris only hurts his own team.

I remember him saying that. I think he was lying. I think it's more likely he failed to adequately consider the potential scenarios. But I certainly could be wrong. Heck, the entire point is that he doesn't think anything like you or I do.

[mhuber92211]

 

Hairston has gone 2 for 6 against Lyon. With two doubles. Neifi has never faced him. Don't believe me? See for yourself.

 

well see, I appreciate that. Considering I figured that only Hairston had faced Lyon before, I gathered he would have done something. And why would I never believe you Cali? :D

 

Regardless, I understand that I am alone on the island of Dusty support, but for all those detractors he does win. We brought him in for that reason and he has been successful no on can argue that. Of course we can debate whether or not the Cubs would have been more successful with a different manager but would there be any proof? Like it or not Dusty Baker is the manager of the Cubs and he has been successful, more so then any other manager in recent memory. I understand that he is frustrating and does questionable things, but really, why get stressed over it in the 2nd game of the season? Doesn't make sense.

 

For those who think that Dusty is a terrible manager, how does he win so often? If you tell me the reason is because of the talent on the team, I would beg to differ. Many a Cub team has had more talent then the last 2 years and have not been successful. The Giant teams of the 90's weren't a juggernaut on paper like the Yankees. Dusty has to be doing something right. Lets try focusing on that for awhile and see what happens.

[halplm]

It's easy to understand Dusty (coming from someone who watched a LOT of giants games with him at the helm).

 

If you have some talent, and take managerial decisions away from Dusty (go out to an early lead), he's AWESOME. Keeps players in the game, gets everyone playing time, generally makes the team better, and they win more games.

 

If your talent slips up, and the game is close, and the game relies on Dusty making good moves... he is HORRIBLE. He will make the wrong move 95% of the time. He just doesn't know what he's doing. He plays his favorites, and ignores common sense. If there are a lot of 1-run games, he will lose a lot of them.

 

Those are the facts, and they are indisputable. He makes a good team better, but severely hurts an average team. Fortunately, I think we have a good team, and in the end he will make it better, we're just going to have to look past games like last night.

[cubs dane]

We brought him in for that reason and he has been successful no on can argue that

 

I think that point is very arguable. If you look how the Cubs failed miserably in the stretch last year, I think as manager he has to take alot of the responsibility. He allowed that team to run amuck, imo.

 

If you look at the most successful season in 2003, it could be argued that the workload he put on Prior, Wood, and Z fading in 2003 was caused by overuse of IP, and bled into 2004. I think what was not arguable is that Wood and Prior ran out of gas at the end of 2003 and Z had nothing before the start of the playoffs.

[Careless]

For those who think that Dusty is a terrible manager, how does he win so often? If you tell me the reason is because of the talent on the team, I would beg to differ. Many a Cub team has had more talent then the last 2 years and have not been successful.

You really think that? I think you're insulting the talent on this team

[don_kessinger_was_good]

...Many a Cub team has had more talent then the last 2 years and have not been successful...

 

Give one example.

[TrueBlueCubFan]

Shouldn't this be moved to rants?

B/C everytime Macias or Perez get an AB this season there will be someone on this board who will be ready to crush Dusty.