Adam Dunn

[ZZ Thorn]

I ran into a lot of this with Dunn detractors at Cards talk.

 

Just try to tell me what not to like about a young guy who can hit 50 bombs, drive in 110+, score 100+, and has an ops over 1000? Maybe I'm not as on the ball as all his detractors, but I have a hard time finding whats wrong with that. So he whiffs like no other? He still gets on base .380+!

 

I do not consider myself a Dunn detrator, but I have my doubts about whether he would be a great addition to the Cardinals given the cost of a trade. First of all, the Cards already have power guys in there lineup that strike out a lot (Reggie and Jimmy). Moreover, given that the Cardinals are looking for more post season help, I wonder how often Dunn would strike out in the playoffs. He is currently striking out every 3rd time up to bat. The pitching is far superior in the playoffs and can dominate strike out hitters.

 

The Cards don't need Dunn in that lineup, but he'd be a big upgrade for the Cubs. He's been consistent at what he does well this year, that was my main problem with him, but I don't think the Reds trade him intradivison. I wouldn't trade the farm for him, and that's what it'd take.

 

I also wonder about how he'll do in the playoffs and in clutch situtations.

[rocket]

 

I also wonder about how he'll do in the playoffs and in clutch situtations.

 

awesome

[treebird]

 

I also wonder about how he'll do in the playoffs and in clutch situtations.

 

awesome

 

YOU CAN SEE HIS HANDS SHAKING

 

WE DONT NEED ANY UNPROVEN GUYS

[ZZ Thorn]

 

I also wonder about how he'll do in the playoffs and in clutch situtations.

 

awesome

 

Is Dunn the perfect hitter or something? He's a whiff machine, and I agree with what the Wiz said - good pitching can dominate strikeout prone guys and you'll find good pitching in the playoffs.

 

Has Dunn ever been in seriously clutch situation with the Reds? Hardly. Skepticism of a lifetime sub-.250 hitter's chances in the playoffs seems pretty logical to me.

[rocket]

 

I also wonder about how he'll do in the playoffs and in clutch situtations.

 

awesome

 

Is Dunn the perfect hitter or something? He's a whiff machine, and I agree with what the Wiz said - good pitching can dominate strikeout prone guys and you'll find good pitching in the playoffs.

 

Has Dunn ever been in seriously clutch situation with the Reds? Hardly. Skepticism of a lifetime sub-.250 hitter's chances in the playoffs seems pretty logical to me.

 

All I'm saying is that Dunn would probably put up his normal numbers in "clutch situations". And his normal numbers are awesome.

 

You see Dunn as a sub-.250 hitter. Fine. I see a guy with a .382 career OBP and .512 SLG. But I guess batting average wins.

[imb]

no you dummy, HE HITS .250! I DONT CARE WHAT HE WALKS, THAT ISNT ON BASEBALL CARDS

[CubsWin]

no you dummy, HE HITS .250! I DONT CARE WHAT HE WALKS, THAT ISNT ON BASEBALL CARDS

Let's keep it civil, okay? Is ridicule really the best choice here?

 

Someone who values the ability to put the bat on the ball with some consistency doesn't deserve to be ridiculed on a classy board like this one. Plus, the argument that great pitching has been known to take advantage of a guy who is prone to strikeout and that a team will face a lot more great pitching in the playoffs is a very sound and logical one.

 

I'm still in favor of trading for Dunn, but he does have his weaknesses. To talk about them and inquire into whether they can be exposed during the playoffs is a worthwhile discussion, isn't it?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

 

I also wonder about how he'll do in the playoffs and in clutch situtations.

 

awesome

 

YOU CAN SEE HIS HANDS SHAKING

 

WE DONT NEED ANY UNPROVEN GUYS

 

EDDIE BANE: If you show fear, you're gone.

 

VOROS McCRACKEN: How would someone show fear?

 

GARY HUGHES: There would be a little give at the plate.

 

EDDIE BANE: You give on a pitcher with a decent slider . . .

 

VOROS McCRACKEN: That happens to everyone--everyone gets their knees buckled every once in a while. So if you rule a guy out that gets his knees buckled, that seems extreme. You'd need to see him show fear a bit more consistently. I'm not sure . . .

 

EDDIE BANE: I am sure. Because if I see fear in a hitter, I'm not ever coming back. I don't see fear in good big league hitters. I know that they get fooled and they'll bail on balls. But for me, that's a different term than fear.

[rocket]

no you dummy, HE HITS .250! I DONT CARE WHAT HE WALKS, THAT ISNT ON BASEBALL CARDS

Let's keep it civil, okay? Is ridicule really the best choice here?

 

Someone who values the ability to put the bat on the ball with some consistency doesn't deserve to be ridiculed on a classy board like this one. Plus, the argument that great pitching has been known to take advantage of a guy who is prone to strikeout and that a team will face a lot more great pitching in the playoffs is a very sound and logical one.

 

I'm still in favor of trading for Dunn, but he does have his weaknesses. To talk about them and inquire into whether they can be exposed during the playoffs is a worthwhile discussion, isn't it?

 

I'm sorry, but I still can't believe people use the argument that Dunn might struggle against elite pitching to knock him down.

 

Pretty much every single MLB hitter is prone to the great pitchers. That's why they're the best pitchers. And for what it's worth, Dunn has excellent career numbers against Roger Clemens.

 

I'd be ridiculed on this board if I were to say, "Yeah, Mark Prior is good and all. But sometimes when he faces an elite hitter, he gives up a hit. I just don't know if I want him pitching in clutch situations because of this!".

[gus_dog]

Johnny Bench was a career .267 hitter. Jeez, who would want a guy like that? :roll:

 

OK, before anyone jumps on me, I'm not saying that Dunn = Bench, but really who cares if Dunn hit .250 if you get run production and he is at least average defencively?

 

BTW, I'm not quite sold on Dunn yet, but the comment on his .250 BA being bad doesn't hold water based on his overall offencive productivity.

[ZZ Thorn]

 

I also wonder about how he'll do in the playoffs and in clutch situtations.

 

awesome

 

Is Dunn the perfect hitter or something? He's a whiff machine, and I agree with what the Wiz said - good pitching can dominate strikeout prone guys and you'll find good pitching in the playoffs.

 

Has Dunn ever been in seriously clutch situation with the Reds? Hardly. Skepticism of a lifetime sub-.250 hitter's chances in the playoffs seems pretty logical to me.

 

All I'm saying is that Dunn would probably put up his normal numbers in "clutch situations". And his normal numbers are awesome.

 

You see Dunn as a sub-.250 hitter. Fine. I see a guy with a .382 career OBP and .512 SLG. But I guess batting average wins.

 

I see Dunn as a sub .250 hitter cuz that's what he is - that's reality. I remember slugger Andre Dawson not doing well in the '89 playoffs - maybe Dunn will be the new Mr. October, but it's natural to have reservations... as I have no unholy man-love for him.

[woodprior04]

I see Dunn as a sub .250 hitter cuz that's what he is - that's reality.

 

It's also a reality that average is pretty much a meaningless stat and clutch hitting doesn't exist.

[imb]

 

I also wonder about how he'll do in the playoffs and in clutch situtations.

 

awesome

 

Is Dunn the perfect hitter or something? He's a whiff machine, and I agree with what the Wiz said - good pitching can dominate strikeout prone guys and you'll find good pitching in the playoffs.

 

Has Dunn ever been in seriously clutch situation with the Reds? Hardly. Skepticism of a lifetime sub-.250 hitter's chances in the playoffs seems pretty logical to me.

 

All I'm saying is that Dunn would probably put up his normal numbers in "clutch situations". And his normal numbers are awesome.

 

You see Dunn as a sub-.250 hitter. Fine. I see a guy with a .382 career OBP and .512 SLG. But I guess batting average wins.

 

I see Dunn as a sub .250 hitter cuz that's what he is - that's reality. I remember slugger Andre Dawson not doing well in the '89 playoffs - maybe Dunn will be the new Mr. October, but it's natural to have reservations... as I have no unholy man-love for him.

 

Why do you choose to look only at the batting average, and not the whole picture? I mean, you can make any player look however you want that way.

[sonicdethmonkey0]

 

I also wonder about how he'll do in the playoffs and in clutch situtations.

 

awesome

 

Is Dunn the perfect hitter or something? He's a whiff machine, and I agree with what the Wiz said - good pitching can dominate strikeout prone guys and you'll find good pitching in the playoffs.

 

Has Dunn ever been in seriously clutch situation with the Reds? Hardly. Skepticism of a lifetime sub-.250 hitter's chances in the playoffs seems pretty logical to me.

 

All I'm saying is that Dunn would probably put up his normal numbers in "clutch situations". And his normal numbers are awesome.

 

You see Dunn as a sub-.250 hitter. Fine. I see a guy with a .382 career OBP and .512 SLG. But I guess batting average wins.

 

I see Dunn as a sub .250 hitter cuz that's what he is - that's reality. I remember slugger Andre Dawson not doing well in the '89 playoffs - maybe Dunn will be the new Mr. October, but it's natural to have reservations... as I have no unholy man-love for him.

 

dunn has been one of the most productive players in the NL the last couple of years - that's reality.

 

also, here is a picture of my adam dunn jersey shirt, conveniently sized to be your new desktop wallpaper!

http://img328.imageshack.us/img328/347/img02009vb.th.jpg

[ZZ Thorn]

 

I also wonder about how he'll do in the playoffs and in clutch situtations.

 

awesome

 

Is Dunn the perfect hitter or something? He's a whiff machine, and I agree with what the Wiz said - good pitching can dominate strikeout prone guys and you'll find good pitching in the playoffs.

 

Has Dunn ever been in seriously clutch situation with the Reds? Hardly. Skepticism of a lifetime sub-.250 hitter's chances in the playoffs seems pretty logical to me.

 

All I'm saying is that Dunn would probably put up his normal numbers in "clutch situations". And his normal numbers are awesome.

 

You see Dunn as a sub-.250 hitter. Fine. I see a guy with a .382 career OBP and .512 SLG. But I guess batting average wins.

 

I see Dunn as a sub .250 hitter cuz that's what he is - that's reality. I remember slugger Andre Dawson not doing well in the '89 playoffs - maybe Dunn will be the new Mr. October, but it's natural to have reservations... as I have no unholy man-love for him.

 

Why do you choose to look only at the batting average, and not the whole picture? I mean, you can make any player look however you want that way.

 

I don't just look at BA, but I just don't toss it away either. This just in - getting hits is an important part of baseball. I was skeptical of Dunn to start the season cuz he hadn't yet put together 2 good seasons in a row, but he's proving me wrong. He still has a couple huge holes in his game. Doesn't make him a bad player, but they're still there.

[sweetpeteman]

Dunn hit number 24, and made a Top Play catch

[CubsWin]

no you dummy, HE HITS .250! I DONT CARE WHAT HE WALKS, THAT ISNT ON BASEBALL CARDS

Let's keep it civil, okay? Is ridicule really the best choice here?

 

Someone who values the ability to put the bat on the ball with some consistency doesn't deserve to be ridiculed on a classy board like this one. Plus, the argument that great pitching has been known to take advantage of a guy who is prone to strikeout and that a team will face a lot more great pitching in the playoffs is a very sound and logical one.

 

I'm still in favor of trading for Dunn, but he does have his weaknesses. To talk about them and inquire into whether they can be exposed during the playoffs is a worthwhile discussion, isn't it?

 

I'm sorry, but I still can't believe people use the argument that Dunn might struggle against elite pitching to knock him down.

 

Pretty much every single MLB hitter is prone to the great pitchers. That's why they're the best pitchers. And for what it's worth, Dunn has excellent career numbers against Roger Clemens.

 

I'd be ridiculed on this board if I were to say, "Yeah, Mark Prior is good and all. But sometimes when he faces an elite hitter, he gives up a hit. I just don't know if I want him pitching in clutch situations because of this!".

You completely missed the point and instead responded to something that was never written.

 

No one said that Dunn might struggle against elite pitching simply because the pitching is elite, I merely stated that it is valid to note that elite pitchers may be able to take advantage of a guy who is prone to the strikeout more so than someone who isn't. If a guy strikes out a lot, like Dunn does, it is logical to conclude that he has got some holes in his swing that pitchers know about and try to exploit. It is also logical to conclude that the better a pitcher is, the more able he would be to exploit a batter's weakness. And the dominos logically fall from there.

 

No one was saying that Dunn would struggle any more than the next guy against elite pitching simply because those elite pitchers are really good. It was Dunn's propensity to swing and miss that lead one poster to wonder if that weakness would likely be exploited by the better pitchers in the game.

 

I don't know the answer to that, but I certainly don't think it is stupid, silly or otherwise to inquire into whether a guy who strikes out a lot might be prone to doing more so as the quality of pitching he faces gets better. If anyone has any insights into that question, I certainly am all ears.

 

And, again, just so no one gets confused, I am all for the Cubs acquiring Dunn.

[1wizard]

CubsWin wrote:

No one was saying that Dunn would struggle any more than the next guy against elite pitching simply because those elite pitchers are really good. It was Dunn's propensity to swing and miss that lead one poster to wonder if that weakness would likely be exploited by the better pitchers in the game.

 

I don't know the answer to that, but I certainly don't think it is stupid, silly or otherwise to inquire into whether a guy who strikes out a lot might be prone to doing more so as the quality of pitching he faces gets better. If anyone has any insights into that question, I certainly am all ears.

 

And, again, just so no one gets confused, I am all for the Cubs acquiring Dunn.

 

 

Well said!

 

A lot of people are misinterpreting what I said. I would normally like to see the Cards acquire a guy like Dunn, who wouldn't. But given the Cardinals situation, they do not need another power hitter who strikes out a lot. They have Rolen, Sanders, and Edmonds and I feel they need a contact hitter who has speed (leadoff or #2 hitter) or a really good setup man. I have heard numerous fans say how the Cards are built for a regular season because of they do not have a high profile pitching staff and have hitters who are strike out prone. And looking at last years WS, I think there is some creditability to that argument.

 

Coupled with the cost of acquiring Dunn, I feel that it would not be a good move for the Cardinals.

[CubsWin]

Well said!

Well, thank you.

 

Coupled with the cost of acquiring Dunn, I feel that it would not be a good move for the Cardinals.

I'm glad you feel that way because having Dunn's left-handed bat and .950+ OPS in the Cubs line-up may be the only way that they could beat the Cardinals in the playoffs. :wink:

[1wizard]

I'm glad you feel that way because having Dunn's left-handed bat and .950+ OPS in the Cubs line-up may be the only way that they could beat the Cardinals in the playoffs.

 

Just because I feel that way does not mean Walt agrees with me. He rarely listens to me. :lol:

 

As someone else mentioned, I highly doubt he goes to an NL Central team.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I'm glad you feel that way because having Dunn's left-handed bat and .950+ OPS in the Cubs line-up may be the only way that they could beat the Cardinals in the playoffs.

 

Just because I feel that way does not mean Walt agrees with me. He rarely listens to me. :lol:

 

As someone else mentioned, I highly doubt he goes to an NL Central team.

 

It's just as likely that he'll go to an NL Central team as anywhere. You can read my comments in the thread in transactions. The Astros already turned down one deal. Dunn is available to a NL Central team, but it will be very costly.

[Sparkle]

Adam Dunn just hit a ball about 90000 feet and it got me all hot.

 

I love this man.

That's because Adam Dunn IS hot.

[rocket]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

thx sparkle

[Sparkle]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

thx sparkle

My pleasure!

[CaliforniaRaisin]

:preparing to move this thread out of Rivalries (or torment Rocket some more):