Cubs (Hendricks) vs Pirates (Skenes): 8/28/24, 11:35am

[Bertz]

Even setting aside anything related to injury, I cannot fathom watching a baseball season, presumably not for the first time, and biting hard on every hot streak as a star turn and every slump as a sign that a guy is washing out of the league.

Like do you see the sun rise every morning and go "Phew, I was pretty sure it was gonna stay down this time"

[squally1313]

1 minute ago, Bertz said:

Even setting aside anything related to injury, I cannot fathom watching a baseball season, presumably not for the first time, and biting hard on every hot streak as a star turn and every slump as a sign that a guy is washing out of the league.

Like do you see the sun rise every morning and go "Phew, I was pretty sure it was gonna stay down this time"

On one hand, yes.

On the other hand, PCA is definitely doing a star turn. 

[Irrelevant Dude]

1 minute ago, Bertz said:

Like do you see the sun rise every morning and go "Phew, I was pretty sure it was gonna stay down this time"

Have you seen Nick Madrigal hit?  That sun never rises.

[Wilson A2000]

23 minutes ago, BKHoo said:

Wow Dansby that was pathetic effort. 

Mom might ground him for that

[chibears55]

Never seen so much love for a guy who has a career .228 Avg  .745 OPS and both falling.

14 hits in last 100 AB and 23 hit in 167 AB since July 1st.  I guess he's been injured since then 🤷‍♂️

The guy has some HR pop but he's not a good hitter overall.

[CubinNY]

Sorry everyone for saying this, I am a sucker for pink finger nails

[Transmogrified Tiger]

3 minutes ago, chibears55 said:

Never seen so much love for a guy who has a career .228 Avg  .745 OPS and both falling.

14 hits in last 100 AB and 23 hit in 167 AB since July 1st.  I guess he's been injured since then 🤷‍♂️

The guy has some HR pop but he's not a good hitter overall.

I've never seen so many people immediately think a career 117 wRC+ hitter is terrible and work backwards from that vibe to make terrible argument after terrible argument about how he's not good.

[Bertz]

4 minutes ago, squally1313 said:

On one hand, yes.

On the other hand, PCA is definitely doing a star turn. 

I'm optimistic on this one too.  Though I'm telling myself it's a bit different because the arrow is pointing up on essentially every single thing he's doing in the batters box, rather than just one or two things.

[squally1313]

3 minutes ago, chibears55 said:

Never seen so much love for a guy

Don't strawman this. This isn't the Isaac Paredes Appreciation thread. You wanted him benched for an injured guy and a second baseman with a combined 150 PAs above AA. Everyone disagreed with you and told you it was a bad idea. He's struggling. He's still our best option going forward. 

[Chicago Al]

10 minutes ago, chibears55 said:

Never seen so much love for a guy who has a career .228 Avg  .745 OPS and both falling.

14 hits in last 100 AB and 23 hit in 167 AB since July 1st.  I guess he's been injured since then 🤷‍♂️

The guy has some HR pop but he's not a good hitter overall.

Would still rather have Paredes over Morel.

[Irrelevant Dude]

4 minutes ago, chibears55 said:

Never seen so much love for a guy who has a career .228 Avg  .745 OPS and both falling.

Overall, Paredes has had 1 good MLB season, and a couple average-ish seasons.  I'm not sure why we have to pretend he is some sort of known commodity who is likely to return to being an above average third baseman.  Yes, he has had some extended periods of success.  Hopefully he gets back to being that guy again next year.  He almost certainly won't continue to play as poorly as he has over the past few months.  But I'm not fully confident in his track record to assume he is going to be the answer for the Cubs at third base.

[chibears55]

8 minutes ago, Transmogrified Tiger said:

I've never seen so many people immediately think a career 117 wRC+ hitter is terrible and work backwards from that vibe to make terrible argument after terrible argument about how he's not good.

So you think he's been a good player this year or for the past 3 months ?

He's had 3 years of 100 games or more.

2022 he hit for power but struggled overall.

2023 he had a very good season 

2024 he started out well the first 2 months and hasn't done much of anything since.

If he can get back to 2023 form in 2025 great, but he hasn't been remotely close to that this season and mainly the last 3 months.

[Bertz]

3 minutes ago, chibears55 said:

So you think he's been a good player this year or for the past 3 months ?

He's had 3 years of 100 games or more.

2022 he hit for power but struggled overall.

2023 he had a very good season 

2024 he started out well the first 2 months and hasn't done much of anything since.

If he can get back to 2023 form in 2025 great, but he hasn't been remotely close to that this season and mainly the last 3 months.

If you think Paredes wasn't quite good in 22 you very simply don't know ball

[squally1313]

2 minutes ago, Irrelevant Dude said:

Overall, Paredes has had 1 good MLB season, and a couple average-ish seasons.  I'm not sure why we have to pretend he is some sort of known commodity who is likely to return to being an above average third baseman.  Yes, he has had some extended periods of success.  Hopefully he gets back to being that guy again next year.  He almost certainly won't continue to play as poorly as he has over the past few months.  But I'm not fully confident in his track record to assume he is going to be the answer for the Cubs at third base.

I don't really know what your definition of 'average' is, and when you say 'few' that's also confusing because in June and July he was an above average hitter (106 wRC and 102 wRC). 

[Transmogrified Tiger]

4 minutes ago, chibears55 said:

So you think he's been a good player this year or for the past 3 months ?

He's had 3 years of 100 games or more.

2022 he hit for power but struggled overall.

2023 he had a very good season 

2024 he started out well the first 2 months and hasn't done much of anything since.

If he can get back to 2023 form in 2025 great, but he hasn't been remotely close to that this season and mainly the last 3 months.

YES, he has a 116 wRC+ and has been worth nearly 3 wins.  In 2022 he had a 115 wRC+ and a 2.4 WAR in 111 games, and in 2023 he had a 137 wRC+ and was over 4 wins.  He's good.

[chibears55]

8 minutes ago, Irrelevant Dude said:

Overall, Paredes has had 1 good MLB season, and a couple average-ish seasons.  I'm not sure why we have to pretend he is some sort of known commodity who is likely to return to being an above average third baseman.  Yes, he has had some extended periods of success.  Hopefully he gets back to being that guy again next year.  He almost certainly won't continue to play as poorly as he has over the past few months.  But I'm not fully confident in his track record to assume he is going to be the answer for the Cubs at third base.

Exactly,  there will be about 20+ games left in the season when they call players up in September.  Be cool if they still have a shot at catching the Braves then but I doubt it.

They have kids that are ready or near ready to play, so whether it Triantos Shaw or even Vazquez it more about getting them AB over the final weeks then position they play.

If Paredes is hurting and he's still not hitting then there's zero reasons to keep him in the lineup everyday. 

[squally1313]

6 minutes ago, chibears55 said:

So you think he's been a good player this year

Yes. 2.5 fWAR, 116 wRC

 

6 minutes ago, chibears55 said:

for the past 3 months ?

0.5 fWAR, 89 wRC since May 28, so...no, probably not. Double digit walk rate and a .180 BABIP would suggest signs for a turnaround, but actual production wise, no.

8 minutes ago, chibears55 said:

2022 he hit for power but struggled overall.

In 111 games he put up a 2.4 fWAR. Obviously we'll gloss over 2023, because it's just the most recent full years worth of data, how important could that be

9 minutes ago, chibears55 said:

2024 he started out well the first 2 months and hasn't done much of anything since.

'well' was 10th best hitter in baseball, 11th best overall player in baseball. Just decent, I guess. Above average hitter in June and July, terrible August. 

[chibears55]

4 minutes ago, Bertz said:

If you think Paredes wasn't quite good in 22 you very simply don't know ball

I said he hit for power, he slugged 435 with his 20 HR.

He didn't hit much otherwise, with a .205 Avg and .304 OB

[Eeyore]

They'll only bring up one position player and one reliever, if any 

[squally1313]

Just now, Eeyore said:

They'll only bring up one position player and one reliever, if any 

That's how the new rules are written, unfortunately. 

[Tryptamine]

Way to bother showing up today pitchers. 

[squally1313]

1 minute ago, squally1313 said:

way too much Paredes crap

And to be clear, I hate slicing and dicing the data like this. We have whole seasons and YTD stats to rely on. But if you're going to go month and month and somehow that barely even holds up, you should get called out on it. Just say you never watched him play before he came to the Cubs and your thing is to complain about Cubs players when they play bad and we can all move on. 

[chibears55]

4 minutes ago, squally1313 said:

Yes. 2.5 fWAR, 116 wRC

 

0.5 fWAR, 89 wRC since May 28, so...no, probably not. Double digit walk rate and a .180 BABIP would suggest signs for a turnaround, but actual production wise, no.

In 111 games he put up a 2.4 fWAR. Obviously we'll gloss over 2023, because it's just the most recent full years worth of data, how important could that be

'well' was 10th best hitter in baseball, 11th best overall player in baseball. Just decent, I guess. Above average hitter in June and July, terrible August. 

I said he had a very good season in 2023, so no we didn't skip it.

[Bertz]

9 minutes ago, chibears55 said:

I said he hit for power, he slugged 435 with his 20 HR.

He didn't hit much otherwise, with a .205 Avg and .304 OB

League average OBP in '22 wad .312, and Tampa is a pitchers park.  .304 is more than fine when combined with power and defense.

[Tryptamine]

On the positive side of things PCA is up to a .664 OPS at the moment and an 84 wRC+. If he manages to get to .700 we should all be thrilled with his rookie year.