Cubs offseason chit chat...

[David]

Just now, 1908_Cubs said:

Swanson got mentioned a bit at the beginning of the offseason as a player the Cubs like. If I remember correctly, I believe Jesse Rogers had noted him specifically (I remember this because I remember, incorrectly, stating I didn't think they'd go in for Swanson - exhibit number 2,342 why I'm an idiot). There was rumors the Cubs were involved heavily in Correa, as well, and it seems as though they were. 

Stroman was a very under the radar, quiet, signing. Swanson had decent smoke around him. With the media circus surrounding Ohtani and his free agency (this is like the MLB version of the Lebron thing a decade ago) I doubt any team could even conceive keeping that quiet. 

Yep.  

And, IIRC, Matt Spiegel at the Score was actually the first to report the Stroman signing was imminent, before any of the big national guys.

[Tim]

1 minute ago, Cuzi said:

His name was only ever mentioned along side the other 3 SS's because the Cubs were going to be "aggressive" in FA while "spending intelligently."

I seem to recall leading up to the Correa announcement that a lot of people were getting excited about the Cubs landing him, to then ultimately sign Swanson a week later.

I guess the positive to take away this year would be that "aggressive" has yet to be attached to "intelligent spending." So just mayyyyyyyyybe, they are willing to be a little stupid this year.

I guess it depends on your time frame. After the other shortstops started going off the board, there was a lot of speculation out there that the Cubs preferred Swanson. Heck, you could look up the thread on here if you don't believe it. One of the wonderful things about the internet is that everything stays out there for later review. It's like those replay commercials.

Anyway, there was rumor to be interest from his side from the very beginning because of his wife's association with Chicago. There were a few early rumbles about the Cubs possibly being interested, but things started getting more vocal in the media as the other shortstops picked destinations.

[UMFan83]

3 minutes ago, Cuzi said:

His name was only ever mentioned along side the other 3 SS's because the Cubs were going to be "aggressive" in FA while "spending intelligently."

I seem to recall leading up to the Correa announcement that a lot of people were getting excited about the Cubs landing him, to then ultimately sign Swanson a week later.

I guess the positive to take away this year would be that "aggressive" has yet to be attached to "intelligent spending." So just mayyyyyyyyybe, they are willing to be a little stupid this year.

There was some reporting of the Cubs interest in Correa and Bogaerts (I don't remember much on Turner), but I do seem to remember even early in the offseason reading that the Cubs had the most interest in Dansby.  There was definitely some connection between the Cubs and Swanson independent of their interest in the other FAs.

[Petrey10]

I still think the best team then and even now would’ve been to get Swanson and one of the other 3 to play 3b. 
 

that would’ve taken dbacks out of the playoffs last year. 

[Petrey10]

Puts morel not needing to play 3b….probably means we wouldn’t have needed Mancini which was negative production anyway. 
 

yeah Correa had a bad year but still better than what we ran out there at 3b

[David]

So I wonder how much of the league is going to be cutting payroll or not spending because of the Bally's/RSN stuff.  

Time for us big market guys with (kinda) their own network and streaming service to eat.

[Tryptamine]

so 50/60 honestly isn't a ton given what they lost in Stroman/Bellinger/Candelario. They'd have to spend 60 just to get those 3 back. If they mean 50/60 in excess of what was spent last year, that is significantly different.

[David]

8 minutes ago, Tryptamine said:

so 50/60 honestly isn't a ton given what they lost in Stroman/Bellinger/Candelario. They'd have to spend 60 just to get those 3 back. If they mean 50/60 in excess of what was spent last year, that is significantly different.

I think what TT said a few posts up is probably the correct interpretation of these comments.

[JD94]

Thoughts on Boras saying Soto won’t be traded? I didn’t hear the context, so maybe I’m misinterpreting. That doesn’t sound good though. 

[Jason Ross]

12 minutes ago, JD94 said:

Thoughts on Boras saying Soto won’t be traded? I didn’t hear the context, so maybe I’m misinterpreting. That doesn’t sound good though. 

Okay, I heard the quote. It's entirely meaningless. When asked about Juan Soto, this was his response

"Met with the Padres, laid out their plan for next year...which obviously included, a lineup that, uh, definitively includes Juan Soto, he's their one .900 OPS player. Ya know, they're obviously, uh, looking for more left handed bats, not less"

Exactly that you'd expect him to say. Nothing about him not being traded, and frankly, Boras doesn't run the Padres, so his opinion on it wouldn't matter anyways. 

Edited November 8, 2023 by 1908_Cubs

[JD94]

27 minutes ago, 1908_Cubs said:

Okay, I heard the quote. It's entirely meaningless. When asked about Juan Soto, this was his response

"Met with the Padres, laid out their plan for next year...which obviously included, a lineup that, uh, definitively includes Juan Soto, he's their one .900 OPS player. Ya know, they're obviously, uh, looking for more left handed bats, not less"

Exactly that you'd expect him to say. Nothing about him not being traded, and frankly, Boras doesn't run the Padres, so his opinion on it wouldn't matter anyways. 

Which is exactly why I needed clarification on the context lol. I literally got a notification from Bleacher Report— Boras: Soto Not Being Traded. 
 

I can breathe a sigh of relief now.

[Jason Ross]

8 minutes ago, JD94 said:

Which is exactly why I needed clarification on the context lol. I literally got a notification from Bleacher Report— Boras: Soto Not Being Traded. 
 

I can breathe a sigh of relief now.

Yeah, that's an incredibly click-batiy title backed up by not a single word uttered by Boras. Just sounded like normal, Boras stuff. Hell, the only odd part was that he didn't add any of his Boras-ism goofiness (like his like about the Polar Bear in hibernation in New York or the Cubs having a "full belly" last year). 

[Chicago Al]

How do you guys feel about Sonny Gray? I think for a 2 or 3 year deal he would be a solid #2/3 starter.

[Rex Buckingham]

I'm betting he wants more than 2-3 years. This is likely his last contract, and with the year he just had, I bet he gets 4 years from someone

[Jason Ross]

Per Levine: Christopher Morel is playing 1b in Winter Ball. And he's staying there.

EDIT: Someone take away Bruce's twitter. He just meant he's staying in winter ball. He's the worst. This happens three times an offseason with him. He's still playing 1b, but the Cubs are just trying to find a home for him.

Hoyer's statement makes it more clear.

Edited November 8, 2023 by 1908_Cubs

[Rcal10]

21 minutes ago, 1908_Cubs said:

Per Levine: Christopher Morel is playing 1b in Winter Ball. And he's staying there.

EDIT: Someone take away Bruce's twitter. He just meant he's staying in winter ball. He's the worst. This happens three times an offseason with him. He's still playing 1b, but the Cubs are just trying to find a home for him.

Hoyer's statement makes it more clear.

The Cubs have no say in where Morel plays on his winter ball team. While I do believe they will try him there, I don’t see him playing first in that team as something the Cubs initiated. 

[Jason Ross]

1 minute ago, Rcal10 said:

The Cubs have no say in where Morel plays on his winter ball team. While I do believe they will try him there, I don’t see him playing first in that team as something the Cubs initiated. 

Not in that specific quote, but Levine said that. He's playing 1b, directed by the Cubs, on his winter team. Yes.

 

Edited November 8, 2023 by 1908_Cubs

[Rcal10]

1 minute ago, 1908_Cubs said:

Not in that specific quote, but Levine said that. He's playing 1b, directed by the Cubs, on his winter team. Yes.

 

I remember reading about the winter league when Morel went down there. The article specifically said the winter leagues are a competitive league all to themselves. And the teams play guys where they need them. It is not some sort of development league where the major league team can dictate where they want their guy to play. Not saying the Cubs don’t want him at 1st. I am just saying he is at 1st because the team he is on, needed a first baseman. 

[Jason Ross]

6 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

I remember reading about the winter league when Morel went down there. The article specifically said the winter leagues are a competitive league all to themselves. And the teams play guys where they need them. It is not some sort of development league where the major league team can dictate where they want their guy to play. Not saying the Cubs don’t want him at 1st. I am just saying he is at 1st because the team he is on, needed a first baseman. 

Well, the MLB, MLBPA and the various winter leagues do have an agreement within the CBA which specifies many things. There are restrictions on how teams are allowed to use position players and pitchers and which leagues are involved. The MLB also puts resources into many of these leagues. I fully believe if the Chicago Cubs, or any MLB team were to...highly suggest something, these teams would almost assuredly cowtail to them to ensure these types of agreements remain in place.

Hoyer is talking like this is coming from the Cubs. It wasn't "they're giving him some work" it's "we are giving him some work". That entirely sounds like a Cubs choice, not some random winter ball team's choice.

Edited November 8, 2023 by 1908_Cubs

[Rcal10]

1 minute ago, 1908_Cubs said:

Well, the MLB, MLBPA and the various winter leagues do have an agreement within the CBA. There are restrictions on how teams are allowed to use position players and pitchers. The MLB also puts resources into many of these leagues. I fully believe if the Chicago Cubs, or any MLB team were to...highly suggest something, these teams would almost assuredly cowtail to them. 

Hoyer is talking like this is coming from the Cubs. It wasn't "they're giving him some work" it's "we are giving him some work". That entirely sounds like a Cubs choice, not some random winter ball team's choice.

Well than that is contradictory to what was reported when the report came out that Morel was going to the DR for the winter league. I think it was written about here, actually. That said, I honestly don’t care. Let him try first. If he can handle it they can figure out what to do next.

[JD94]

5 minutes ago, 1908_Cubs said:

Well, the MLB, MLBPA and the various winter leagues do have an agreement within the CBA which specifies many things. There are restrictions on how teams are allowed to use position players and pitchers and which leagues are involved. The MLB also puts resources into many of these leagues. I fully believe if the Chicago Cubs, or any MLB team were to...highly suggest something, these teams would almost assuredly cowtail to them to ensure these types of agreements remain in place.

Hoyer is talking like this is coming from the Cubs. It wasn't "they're giving him some work" it's "we are giving him some work". That entirely sounds like a Cubs choice, not some random winter ball team's choice.

Yeah unless they have Vladdy Jr over there playing 1b, I don’t see them saying “no, Jed… we absolutely will not play Morel at 1B even though you’ve asked so nicely.” I’m sure there is give and take involved, but I would imagine as long as it’s not something crazy, they would be willing to cooperate with MLB GM’s in these situations. As you said, it certainly sounds like Jed asked them to play Morel at 1B. 

Edited November 9, 2023 by JD94

[Rcal10]

3 minutes ago, JD94 said:

Yeah unless they have Vladdy Jr over there playing 1b, I don’t see them saying “no, Jed… we absolutely will not play Morel at 1B even though you’ve asked so nicely.” I’m sure there is give and take involved, but I would imagine as long as it’s not something crazy, they would be willing to cooperate with MLB GM’s in these situations. As you said, it certainly sounds like Jed asked them to play Morel at 1B. 

BN story on 10/24 is where I read about Morel going to the DR. That is where I got the information that in the DR they will play a player where there is a need. And not necessarily in a position the ML team wants him to work at. I don’t know how to post that article, but that is what I am referencing. 

[Jason Ross]

33 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

Well than that is contradictory to what was reported when the report came out that Morel was going to the DR for the winter league. I think it was written about here, actually. That said, I honestly don’t care. Let him try first. If he can handle it they can figure out what to do next.

I mean, I would say the report isn't false; these winter teams, in theory, are independent. They have autonomy. They set the batting order. They choose who plays, pitching rotation, etc... And I'm sure MLB teams stay out of their horsefeathers most of the time. But there's a clear power dynamic in play as well.

Approved leagues are in the CBA. The MLB banned the Venezuelan league in 2019. Limits on who can play (for example, there are limits on pitchers who have thrown X amount of innings and hitters who have X amount of PAs in the regular season on how much they can play) are in there. And the MLB puts resources into the leagues as well. So in the end, there's an unfair relationship between the two.

So while in theory these teams are competitive, autonomous leagues, they're not really. I'm very sure that if a team like the Cubs wanted a player to learn a position, it would be pretty easy to make a DR winter ball team do just that. Just as though if a team was "misusing" a player (for example, if the team had Morel playing positions they feared would be bad for a player) I'm sure a quick phone call would clear that up. I'm just reading tea leaves here and I can't prove it, but I'd be very surprised to hear this isn't how it actually works.

Edited November 9, 2023 by 1908_Cubs

[ToolDRT]

Not to always be the pessimist, but what really scares me about this offseason (even more so after reading the MLBTR free agent predictions) is how little depth there is. More on the position player side. 
 

It’s almost like you hit on a big free agent like Ohtani, Yamamoto, Bellinger, etc or you go the trade route. Cause I seriously don’t want us overpaying for freaking Matt Chapman. 
 

I like Ohtani. A lot. If I could pick one piece  for this offseason he’d be it. But I also don’t want to get stuck waiting for him and everything else dries up. 

[Rcal10]

37 minutes ago, 1908_Cubs said:

I mean, I would say the report isn't false; these winter teams, in theory, are independent. They have autonomy. They set the batting order. They choose who plays, pitching rotation, etc... And I'm sure MLB teams stay out of their horsefeathers most of the time. But there's a clear power dynamic in play as well.

Approved leagues are in the CBA. The MLB banned the Venezuelan league in 2019. Limits on who can play (for example, there are limits on pitchers who have thrown X amount of innings and hitters who have X amount of PAs in the regular season on how much they can play) are in there. And the MLB puts resources into the leagues as well. So in the end, there's an unfair relationship between the two.

So while in theory these teams are competitive, autonomous leagues, they're not really. I'm very sure that if a team like the Cubs wanted a player to learn a position, it would be pretty easy to make a DR winter ball team do just that. Just as though if a team was "misusing" a player (for example, if the team had Morel playing positions they feared would be bad for a player) I'm sure a quick phone call would clear that up. I'm just reading tea leaves here and I can't prove it, but I'd be very surprised to hear this isn't how it actually works.

Honestly it doesn’t matter to me. I was only trying to explain where I saw what I saw. TBH, when I did read it the first time I was kind of surprised they suggested the ML team didn’t have a say. I am sure it is more like you are suggesting.