Bears Week 6 vs Vikings, Noon CT, FOX

[UMFan83]

Herbert and ESB were both placed on IR

[WrigleyField 22]

This is for @Hairyducked Idiot

 

 

[jersey cubs fan]

I sure as hell never though Trevor was in that category.

 

 

[Hairyducked Idiot]

2 hours ago, WrigleyField 22 said:

This is for @Hairyducked Idiot

 

 

Someone on Reddit suggested the term "presidential" for prospects who are subgenerational but likely to be the best of a four-year span, and I liked that.

I want to say the only truly generational QB prospects I can remember are Manning and Luck.  I remember the Chicago Tribune sports section having a Manning watch reverse-standings every week, which is the first time I had ever seen that sort of thing.

But looking back at some of the coverage that's still around on the internet, there was a lot more questioning him than I remembered.  I don't know if NFL scouting rooms felt the same way or of it was just the media, but there was a lot of talk about him being a weak-armed nerd who might be NFL ready but maybe didn't have a star ceiling.

[WrigleyField 22]

At the end of the day I feel like generational gets used every time it's a consensus #1 guy.  So a guy like Lawrence or Burrow werent viewed quite like Luck, but they were no brainer #1 picks so generational just got thrown around.

 

The hype for Williams seems as crazy as since Luck though.  Burrow obviously only came onto scene late, but people were already talking about Lawrence going #1 basically from his freshman year in and there was lots of talk of tanking for him. But people are throwing around the Mahomes type expectations for Williams, which seems like a totally unrealistic expectation.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I feel like maybe, and this is a maybe because WTF do I know about scouting college quarterbacks, Williams gets a boost because it's easy to imagine him replicating Mahomes.  If Mahomes wasn't Mahomesing, I don't think Williams would be *as* highly regarded.

[Tryptamine]

3 minutes ago, Hairyducked Idiot said:

I feel like maybe, and this is a maybe because WTF do I know about scouting college quarterbacks, Williams gets a boost because it's easy to imagine him replicating Mahomes.  If Mahomes wasn't Mahomesing, I don't think Williams would be *as* highly regarded.

He definitely has a lot of Mahomes to his game, but is Mahomes even Mahomes without Andy Reid?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Just now, Tryptamine said:

He definitely has a lot of Mahomes to his game, but is Mahomes even Mahomes without Andy Reid?

I dunno. I thought for more than a decade that Bellichek made Brady more than vice-versa, but that's been proven untrue.

[jersey cubs fan]

38 minutes ago, Hairyducked Idiot said:

I dunno. I thought for more than a decade that Bellichek made Brady more than vice-versa, but that's been proven untrue.

Belichik did make Brady. Brady wasn’t Brady for his first 5-6 seasons. If he played in a stinker organization there is no telling what kind of success he’d have. Eventually the pupil outpaces the master, but Brady was not self made. 

[CubinNY]

Williams is already better than Fields at short passing accuracy. 

[bukie]

53 minutes ago, CubinNY said:

Williams is already better than Fields at short passing accuracy. 

Unfortunate timing on this take.

[CubinNY]

11 minutes ago, bukie said:

Unfortunate timing on this take.

Really bad. I should delete but I’ll wear it. 

[Hairyducked Idiot]

All about the Maye train.

[Tryptamine]

I'm not even sure "Generational" talent Caleb Williams is even the best QB in this draft anymore. 

[raw]

So, I gotta disagree with the sentiment that Williams AND Lawrence are NOT generational prospects. Lawrence meets all the criteria, IMO. The #1 HS recruit. College starter as a true freshman and wins a national title with college playoff appearances in every year in college. He was thought of as an eventual #1 draft pick while in HS and lived up to it.

I'm not sure where Williams was in HS recruiting rankings, but also started at a major Power 5 program as a freshman (I don't believe he started day 1 as OU had Spencer Rattler), but Heisman as a sophomore and before last night was a leading candidate to win it twice. Granted, that's not that big of a deal as far as NFL prospects go as Tebow nearly won Heisman twice. But I think Williams is closer to Lawrence than Fields was as a prospect and Fields had a lot of H2H success over Lawrence throughout the years.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

2 hours ago, raw said:

So, I gotta disagree with the sentiment that Williams AND Lawrence are NOT generational prospects. Lawrence meets all the criteria, IMO. The #1 HS recruit. College starter as a true freshman and wins a national title with college playoff appearances in every year in college. He was thought of as an eventual #1 draft pick while in HS and lived up to it.

 

The criteria is the best prospect you are likely to see in any 20-year stretch.  He doesn't meet that.

[CubinNY]

6 minutes ago, Hairyducked Idiot said:

The criteria is the best prospect you are likely to see in any 20-year stretch.  He doesn't meet that.

You have the Highlander criteria. I suppose that’s understandable and appropriate. For me it’s a little wider, like top 5 per decade. Using your standard almost no one would be it. The player doesn’t have to be consensus the best but among the best every year. Like Trever Lawerence and Joe Burrow (healthy) are going to be among the best every year while others come and go. 

[Hairyducked Idiot]

12 minutes ago, CubinNY said:

You have the Highlander criteria. I suppose that’s understandable and appropriate. For me it’s a little wider, like top 5 per decade. Using your standard almost no one would be it. The player doesn’t have to be consensus the best but among the best every year. Like Trever Lawerence and Joe Burrow (healthy) are going to be among the best every year while others come and go. 

I know I'm fighting a pointless and uphill battle against common usage, but the problem with this approach is that eventually someone's going to come along who is better than those guys.  The Andrew Luck/Wayne Gretzky/Alex Rodriguez level prospects who truly do only come around once every 20 years or so.

And when that guy comes along, you're going to need a word that differentiates them from the "top 5 per decade, was always a consensus No. 1" tier.

And when we come up with that word, people are going to start clamoring for it to be used a little too loosely, and it's going to slowly become more overused until eventually it's being used for everyone and once again the words fall down the rabbithole into meaninglessness.

I generally hate presriptivism, but sports fans are on a speedrun to destroy every decent adjective they get their hands on. And every cycle gets a little faster to water down the words.  "Elite" took all of the 2010s to get dragged down from "in the argument for the best" to "any good attribute."   We've seemingly pulled generational down from "once in a generation" to "five every decade"  just in the 2020s to date.

Edited October 15, 2023 by Hairyducked Idiot

[raw]

42 minutes ago, Hairyducked Idiot said:

The criteria is the best prospect you are likely to see in any 20-year stretch.  He doesn't meet that.

1. Who's criteria?

2. There was an article this week calling him a better prospect than any in the last 20 years, with a toss-up vs Luck (I believe).

Not necessarily agreeing with that, but he's clearly up there to some people

[Hairyducked Idiot]

9 minutes ago, raw said:

1. Who's criteria?

2. There was an article this week calling him a better prospect than any in the last 20 years, with a toss-up vs Luck (I believe).

Not necessarily agreeing with that, but he's clearly up there to some people

The literal meaning of the word.  It's not a random collection of syllables.  

[UMFan83]

What a messy terrible first drive temporarily saved only by Fields running 

[Hairyducked Idiot]

It's so infuriating to go into the offseason knowing we needed a center, waiting for them to get a center every step of the way, refusing to get a center, and now we have to deal with multiple bad snaps per game.

I want to love Poles but that kind of stuff makes it so hard.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Screens *are* a good call against a blitz-heavy defense. But if this goes poorly, people are gonna be *mad* about them.

[UMFan83]

The Bears must hate Foreman

[UMFan83]

Edit: nevermind touchback

Edited October 15, 2023 by UMFan83