Week 2 - Bears @ Packers, SNF

[Soul]

tbf he just beat the Saints with Scotty Miller, Breshad Perriman, Russell Gage as his most targeted pass catchers

 

and 40 years of experience with 10 superbowl wins (I'm clearly being sensational)

 

If TB was in his 2nd year, would he succeed with this Bears roster?

 

In TBs actual second year his WRs were Troy Brown, David Patten and Mark Edwards. His line was probably really good though. He had his share of struggles and several sub 200 yard passing games but that team won the Super Bowl so maybe its not the best comparison (i should probably delete bc I'm making a comparison that I'm not too serious about). But I do believe young developing QBs can still find success with subpar weapons. But you need a coaching staff that can put that QB in the best positon to succeed.

 

I believe that too (QBs can succeed with sub par talent). That said, it's not knowable whether Brady would have succeeded with the Bears incredible lack of offensive talent in the passing game.

 

So we just need to figure it out by watching him play the rest of the year. I think we're all in agreement on that. Yesterday was disconcerting, but it's not the end. Just going to have to go through these games and see where Fields lands after that. I think he'll get plenty of opportunities this year.

[minnesotacubsfan]

Maybe I just haven't noticed it before, but is it common for a team to be really solid with run blocking but hilariously bad with pass blocking? The gap between the two is just huge.

 

Check out a high school football game, that is what the run/pass blocking difference reminds me of.

 

I've never played football however, for those who have, is it not easier to push someone out of the way in order to let someone run by than keep them from getting to someone behind you?

 

 

Pass blocking was easier for me in HS because I had a simple strategy, never let the DE touch the QB. It meant I could take him 15 yards past the QB just by staying in front of the DE and driving him away- using his momentum against him, while run blocking was harder because I was very undersized to play left tackle, and the DL I went against were large farm boys. I'm 5'9", benched 305 and squatted around 540, but still gave up a ton of leverage to someone who was 6'3

Edited September 20, 2022 by minnesotacubsfan

[UMFan83]

 

and 40 years of experience with 10 superbowl wins (I'm clearly being sensational)

 

If TB was in his 2nd year, would he succeed with this Bears roster?

 

In TBs actual second year his WRs were Troy Brown, David Patten and Mark Edwards. His line was probably really good though. He had his share of struggles and several sub 200 yard passing games but that team won the Super Bowl so maybe its not the best comparison (i should probably delete bc I'm making a comparison that I'm not too serious about). But I do believe young developing QBs can still find success with subpar weapons. But you need a coaching staff that can put that QB in the best positon to succeed.

 

I believe that too (QBs can succeed with sub par talent). That said, it's not knowable whether Brady would have succeeded with the Bears incredible lack of offensive talent in the passing game.

 

So we just need to figure it out by watching him play the rest of the year. I think we're all in agreement on that. Yesterday was disconcerting, but it's not the end. Just going to have to go through these games and see where Fields lands after that. I think he'll get plenty of opportunities this year.

 

Houston is 27th in the league in allowing 270 passing yards per game so far this year so this may be a good opportunity to open up the passing game a bit next week. 49ers and Packers were a tough first 2 opponents to play with a new offensive system and young QB.

[scarey]

Am I allowed to be annoyed about that?

And we are all allowed to be annoyed at your annoyingly wrong take on what it takes to overturn a play in replay.

 

I'm glad you've gained perspective on what it's like to be annoyed at annoyingly wrong takes. We all have to deal with yours on a regular basis, it's comforting to know you are not ignorant to how it feels.

[WrigleyField 22]

Yea he's gotta learn from experience, but an extra legit pass catcher could certainly help smooth that curve a little, one would think. And I actually like Mooney quite a bit. But he's all there is really. I think I saw something about Pringle having good separation stats, but I'm thinking that may be more a product of being a tertiary option than his ability to create space.

 

Also I'm pretty much done on Kmet. He's a decent number 2 and blocker, but damn he just doesn't make a difference on an O as a target. JAG. Some fans were hyping him way too hard.

 

Kmet was the 1st TE taken that year, but I think was always thought of as being a second tier TE in a good TE draft year (does that make sense?). That being said, he doesnt seem to be improving, at all. Its concerning.

Yea, even at the time he was not viewed as a premier prospect. But either way draft positioning stops mattering the day they sign the first contract.

 

His only excuse is youth as he's still quite young, but when you're dropping easy passes when your team is trying to rally... Youth doesn't seem like an excuse. Not asking him to fool defenders with vet wisdom in those situations.

[WrigleyField 22]

Re: the pass v run blocking, it would be interesting to just go count the box again on all those big runs in the second half. Down two scores, it may have been as much about the Packers D as it was blocking (plus some good broken tackles by DM to DBs)

[UMFan83]

For those that care about PFF grades, for the 2nd week in a row Justin Fields was the lowest graded Bears player on offense.

 

Top 3 offense:

 

Ryan Griffin (TE) - 82.5

Khalil Herbert (RB) - 77.6 (on 8 snaps)

Equanimeous St. Brown (WR) - 77.2

 

Bottom 3 offense:

 

Justin Fields (QB) - 40.8

Cole Kmet (TE) - 47.0

Tevin Jenkins (OG) - 48.3

 

Top 3 defense:

 

Justin Jones (DT) - 77.0

Trevis Gipson (DE) - 73.4

Kingsley Jonathan (DE) - 68.6

 

Bottom 3 defense:

 

Angelo Blackson (DT) - 33.9

Kyler Gordon (CB) - 35.2

Roquan Smith (LB) - 36.00

 

Roquan was the lowest graded defensive player in week 1 so hey improvement.

[Old Style]

How is Montgomery not in the Top 3 on offense?

[Soul]

How is Montgomery not in the Top 3 on offense?

I wondered the same.

[We Got The Whole 9]

Kyler was a great concierge last night. Hope he got good tips as he went above and beyond to make sure his assignment made it to their destination safely and without hindrance.

 

Hope he woke up in cold sweats throughout the night.

[mias_tisg]

This is worse than I thought

[Wilson A2000]

[gflore34]

This is worse than I thought

 

Very, very Trubisky like there either he truly didn't see it or he's playing scared with a lack of confidence. If he wants any shot at all he's got to start attempting those throws, there are receivers open regardless of who they or what they supposedly lack.

[BigSlick]

Wow, shocked to see Blackson so poorly rated - saw him make penetration on a few plays (and get held a few times) and thought that spoke well to his performance but clearly not

[SpongeWorthy]

This is worse than I thought

 

Very, very Trubisky like there either he truly didn't see it or he's playing scared with a lack of confidence. If he wants any shot at all he's got to start attempting those throws, there are receivers open regardless of who they or what they supposedly lack.

I’m not qb expert but when he drops back it just seems like he is thinking with his feet and not his eyes or something

[UMFan83]

This is worse than I thought

 

This is what they mean by processing time. He sees St. Brown and if he pulls the trigger right away he's got 6. But he delays for a second and in that time it seems like the CB has recovered to close some of the gap and ultimately he doesn't think its a safe throw because if its underthrown its an INT. At least that's how I see it as a complete amateur film watcher.

[gflore34]

This is worse than I thought

 

This is what they mean by processing time. He sees St. Brown and if he pulls the trigger right away he's got 6. But he delays for a second and in that time it seems like the CB has recovered to close some of the gap and ultimately he doesn't think its a safe throw because if its underthrown its an INT. At least that's how I see it as a complete amateur film watcher.

 

Beyond a doubt, nearly any other QB would have pulled the trigger, overthinking, lack of confidence, playing scared, fearing a TO, is not going to work. He should know that if he doesn't, he 's as good as gone.

[mias_tisg]

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Oh look the second QB drafted by Pace has the exact same issues as the first one. Fun.

[minnesotacubsfan]

I was wondering if that was a broken route that confused Fields, but still. He's got to take that shot

 

Frustrating

[minnesotacubsfan]

Wow, shocked to see Blackson so poorly rated - saw him make penetration on a few plays (and get held a few times) and thought that spoke well to his performance but clearly not

Yea that was confusing although I think they flagged him for holding and offsides

[WrigleyField 22]

This is worse than I thought

 

This is what they mean by processing time. He sees St. Brown and if he pulls the trigger right away he's got 6. But he delays for a second and in that time it seems like the CB has recovered to close some of the gap and ultimately he doesn't think its a safe throw because if its underthrown its an INT. At least that's how I see it as a complete amateur film watcher.

And I think to some degree most young passers have this issue. But certainly over 28 attempts over 2 games (even if we add in all the pass plays that ended in a run/sack) , he isn't getting tons of live reps.

 

I saw an inevitable comparison to Trubiskys first 12 games, which was his full rookie year. He threw 330 passes to Justin's 283? I know Fields had some not full games in this first 12, but Trubisky in a ultra conservative Fox environment gets of 17% more passes than Fields. That's just not good (whether there's excuses/context for some of it).

 

As I go through other young unrefined passers of recent memory, they all way outpace those marks. Even if I travel back in time to a much less pass happy NFL in 2001, Tom Brady threw 330 passes in his first 12 starts, and Bellicheck was not throwing him to the wolves and trying to win behind him that first year.

 

So even if Fields is missing 2-3 opportunities on his own each game, the raw numbers are low. And if youre scheme is razor thin enough that 2-3 missed opportunities throws the whole gameplan... That seems bad.

[UMFan83]

This is worse than I thought

 

This is what they mean by processing time. He sees St. Brown and if he pulls the trigger right away he's got 6. But he delays for a second and in that time it seems like the CB has recovered to close some of the gap and ultimately he doesn't think its a safe throw because if its underthrown its an INT. At least that's how I see it as a complete amateur film watcher.

 

Beyond a doubt, nearly any other QB would have pulled the trigger, overthinking, lack of confidence, playing scared, fearing a TO, is not going to work. He should know that if he doesn't, he 's as good as gone.

 

I'm talking myself more and more into the belief that they just need to let him play freely and sink or swim. I think back to the Browns preseason game (yes I know it was a meaningless preseason game with starters sitting) but you could just see Fields start to get comfortable after a few throws and then suddenly he was electric and confidently throwing bombs all over the field. I think back to the Steelers game last year. In the first half he struggled with a gameplan that didn't involve many passes, in the 2nd half he hit a couple of perfect throws and then became unstoppable. I think if you give someone only a handful of attempts to make something happen, they're going to play more tentatively and scared because the margin for error is razor thin (like WrigleyField22 said). It certainly seems like the case with Fields.

[Have a seat, Neifi]

I think the important point here that most people are agreeing with is that they need to allow him to fail through opportunity. He may be holding the ball too long, and he isn't finding the open receiver, but they also aren't allowing him enough opportunity to learn. Maybe they see it in practice, if so their job is to correct it, not design running plays in games on 2 and 16 down a few scores.

Yea, you said it much better than I've tried to.

 

We as fans are looking for hope. The coaching staff is trying to win games.

 

The coaching staff believes the best way to reach its goal is to essentially make Fields make as few decisions as possible and throw as few passes as possible.

 

We as fans (or at least, most of us) understand that success in the NFL all but requires top-tier quarterback play. We understand we're not getting that now and that it's highly unlikely we'll get that at any point this season. But it'd be nice to know if there is any chance we *ever* get that with Fields. I'd rather know the answer definitively--even if that answer is no--than scratch out 7 or 8 wins with gimmicky sets, an old-timey run-based approach, and 10 passing attempts a game. None of those things (individually or collectively) prove or disprove whether Justin Fields can actually be a starting NFL quarterback and would/will simply leave us back where we started--"too soon to tell," "needs more time," "can't evaluate him with this supporting cast," "needs an opportunity to show what we can do in a 'real' offense," etc. etc. etc.

Edited September 19, 2022 by Have a seat, Neifi

[gflore34]

 

This is what they mean by processing time. He sees St. Brown and if he pulls the trigger right away he's got 6. But he delays for a second and in that time it seems like the CB has recovered to close some of the gap and ultimately he doesn't think its a safe throw because if its underthrown its an INT. At least that's how I see it as a complete amateur film watcher.

 

Beyond a doubt, nearly any other QB would have pulled the trigger, overthinking, lack of confidence, playing scared, fearing a TO, is not going to work. He should know that if he doesn't, he 's as good as gone.

 

I'm talking myself more and more into the belief that they just need to let him play freely and sink or swim. I think back to the Browns preseason game (yes I know it was a meaningless preseason game with starters sitting) but you could just see Fields start to get comfortable after a few throws and then suddenly he was electric and confidently throwing bombs all over the field. I think back to the Steelers game last year. In the first half he struggled with a gameplan that didn't involve many passes, in the 2nd half he hit a couple of perfect throws and then became unstoppable. I think if you give someone only a handful of attempts to make something happen, they're going to play more tentatively and scared because the margin for error is razor thin (like WrigleyField22 said). It certainly seems like the case with Fields.

 

And there isn't a logical reason in the world to play in that manner, they're literally playing with house money. There's nothing to lose, you got to find out what have in Fields, let it horsefeathering go Erberflus, Getsy et. al, WTF cares if you lose every game?