Week 15 Bears vs. Vikings, MNF

[Soul]

 

 

That will work, after the Seattle game

 

What if they win, though? Seattle is a very winnable game. They aren't going to fire Nagy after a win, unless they fully admit that they told him he was out this week beforehand, and that's still a sore spot with this organization.

This org is so backwards.

 

The Kusinski logic above is the only reason I'm not pissed about it happening. But even that is such backwards logic.

 

This brings me back to last year when there was a lot of talk about people wanting a full clean sweep from Phillips down. And I made the point then, if that was the goal, the best thing was actually to do President only last year. Then they could evaluate a full offseason and season of Pace and Nagy and then be in a position to be in the building, prepared for a new GM/HC search after that. Here we are with weeks to go until the end of the season and the org still contemplating a major org shift? But unlike last year there's basically no chance they can lame duck the HC/GM situation either.

 

So now I am actually pissed, but for much more nuanced reasons.

 

So they wind up with new leadership but kneecapped because others will have swooped in ahead of them to acquire the best people.

[Outshined_One]

 

What if they win, though? Seattle is a very winnable game. They aren't going to fire Nagy after a win, unless they fully admit that they told him he was out this week beforehand, and that's still a sore spot with this organization.

This org is so backwards.

 

The Kusinski logic above is the only reason I'm not pissed about it happening. But even that is such backwards logic.

 

This brings me back to last year when there was a lot of talk about people wanting a full clean sweep from Phillips down. And I made the point then, if that was the goal, the best thing was actually to do President only last year. Then they could evaluate a full offseason and season of Pace and Nagy and then be in a position to be in the building, prepared for a new GM/HC search after that. Here we are with weeks to go until the end of the season and the org still contemplating a major org shift? But unlike last year there's basically no chance they can lame duck the HC/GM situation either.

 

So now I am actually pissed, but for much more nuanced reasons.

 

So they wind up with new leadership but kneecapped because others will have swooped in ahead of them to acquire the best people.

 

 

 

[WrigleyField 22]

 

What if they win, though? Seattle is a very winnable game. They aren't going to fire Nagy after a win, unless they fully admit that they told him he was out this week beforehand, and that's still a sore spot with this organization.

This org is so backwards.

 

The Kusinski logic above is the only reason I'm not pissed about it happening. But even that is such backwards logic.

 

This brings me back to last year when there was a lot of talk about people wanting a full clean sweep from Phillips down. And I made the point then, if that was the goal, the best thing was actually to do President only last year. Then they could evaluate a full offseason and season of Pace and Nagy and then be in a position to be in the building, prepared for a new GM/HC search after that. Here we are with weeks to go until the end of the season and the org still contemplating a major org shift? But unlike last year there's basically no chance they can lame duck the HC/GM situation either.

 

So now I am actually pissed, but for much more nuanced reasons.

 

So they wind up with new leadership but kneecapped because others will have swooped in ahead of them to acquire the best people.

I even think the "best narrative" part is overrated. Nagy was a hot candidate and Frank Reich was leftovers after a coach backed out for Indy. Who has turned out better?

 

But still, would be better if the President had been in the building to evaluate things for themself? At this point even a very brilliant outside mind can only know so much about what specifically has ailed the Bears.

[jumbo]

This org is so backwards.

 

The Kusinski logic above is the only reason I'm not pissed about it happening. But even that is such backwards logic.

 

This brings me back to last year when there was a lot of talk about people wanting a full clean sweep from Phillips down. And I made the point then, if that was the goal, the best thing was actually to do President only last year. Then they could evaluate a full offseason and season of Pace and Nagy and then be in a position to be in the building, prepared for a new GM/HC search after that. Here we are with weeks to go until the end of the season and the org still contemplating a major org shift? But unlike last year there's basically no chance they can lame duck the HC/GM situation either.

 

So now I am actually pissed, but for much more nuanced reasons.

 

So they wind up with new leadership but kneecapped because others will have swooped in ahead of them to acquire the best people.

I even think the "best narrative" part is overrated. Nagy was a hot candidate and Frank Reich was leftovers after a coach backed out for Indy. Who has turned out better?

 

But still, would be better if the President had been in the building to evaluate things for themself? At this point even a very brilliant outside mind can only know so much about what specifically has ailed the Bears.

 

You would think that after last season, when Nagy and Pace convinced them to stay that they had to have, for at least a brief period of time, thought about the alternative to keeping them. This should not be a brand new concept to them as they have been asked about it by reporters in the past. I believe their answer was "Pace IS our football guy," which makes sense. Sooner or later there is a guy they trust to run the team and that person is Pace.

All of this is to say that if they don't already know what they want to do they're idiots (like undecided voters).

[jumbo]

 

Realistically, what do we need to add for next year to feel like we're putting Justin in a real position to succeed? Something like this?

 

- 2 starting caliber WRs

- 1 starting caliber TE

- A starting caliber Center

- A starting caliber guard (ideally just extend James Daniels)

- A tackle (these last few weeks to determine how good he needs to be)

 

With the cap space open this offseason, that's probably actually doable? You're left bargain hunting on defense, but I'd be happy to finally have a team that can win games 34-27.

 

 

Can we do this with defense building around Smith and Johnson?

 

 

- 1 starting caliber ILB to pair with Roquan

- 2 starting caliber CB (slot and boundary)

- 1 starting caliber S

- Rotational DL (ideally extend Nichols)

 

CB needs some real talent additions, the rest could patch up with cheap veterans

[WrigleyField 22]

 

So they wind up with new leadership but kneecapped because others will have swooped in ahead of them to acquire the best people.

I even think the "best narrative" part is overrated. Nagy was a hot candidate and Frank Reich was leftovers after a coach backed out for Indy. Who has turned out better?

 

But still, would be better if the President had been in the building to evaluate things for themself? At this point even a very brilliant outside mind can only know so much about what specifically has ailed the Bears.

 

You would think that after last season, when Nagy and Pace convinced them to stay that they had to have, for at least a brief period of time, thought about the alternative to keeping them. This should not be a brand new concept to them as they have been asked about it by reporters in the past. I believe their answer was "Pace IS our football guy," which makes sense. Sooner or later there is a guy they trust to run the team and that person is Pace.

All of this is to say that if they don't already know what they want to do they're idiots (like undecided voters).

I've long been a proponent of the fact that a guy like Pace as your top football guy is fine. The question is whether Phillips as their top non football guy who football reports into makes sense. It does sound like they're questioning that, but yea are undecided and now they're unprepared. Did something really happen in the past 365 days that changed Phillips mind about changing his role?

 

So I'd be curious about what a guy like Armstrong's role actually looks like that broadly complements a primarily personnel/scout based GM at top of Football Ops. Something that is more than head of hiring and firing. Like DePodeata in CLE is all football ops based, but seems like he's broadly responsible for charting a course of a broad football ops expansion (heavily analytics driven). And pretty much every other rorg football ops reports to an owner or primarily business Pres.

 

The more that I read and think about Armstrong and I'm wondering if it's just about him being well connected to coaches and execs and if the intent is just an alternative to a hiring consultant? Or would he have an actual real permanent job other than sitting around waiting to make a hiring/firing decision and just generally being a sounding board?

[minnesotacubsfan]

I even think the "best narrative" part is overrated. Nagy was a hot candidate and Frank Reich was leftovers after a coach backed out for Indy. Who has turned out better?

 

But still, would be better if the President had been in the building to evaluate things for themself? At this point even a very brilliant outside mind can only know so much about what specifically has ailed the Bears.

 

You would think that after last season, when Nagy and Pace convinced them to stay that they had to have, for at least a brief period of time, thought about the alternative to keeping them. This should not be a brand new concept to them as they have been asked about it by reporters in the past. I believe their answer was "Pace IS our football guy," which makes sense. Sooner or later there is a guy they trust to run the team and that person is Pace.

All of this is to say that if they don't already know what they want to do they're idiots (like undecided voters).

I've long been a proponent of the fact that a guy like Pace as your top football guy is fine. The question is whether Phillips as their top non football guy who football reports into makes sense. It does sound like their questioning thst, but yea are ak undecided that they're now unprepared. Did something really happen in the past 365 days that changed Phillips mind about changing his role?

 

So I'd be curious about what a guy like Armstrong's role actually looks like that broadly complements a primarily personnel/scout based GM at top of Football Ops. Something that is more than head of hiring and firing. Like DePodeata in CLE is all football ops based, but seems like hes broadly responsible for charting a course of a broad football ops expansion (heavily analytics driven).

 

More I read and think about Armstrong and I'm wondering if it's just about him being well connected to coaches and execs and if the intent is just an alternative to a hiring consultant? Or would he have a real permanent job?

 

I was skimming an article this morning with my morning coffee on why former agents would make better GMs, and the gist of the argument was that they understand 1) how to negotiate and not turn off players and agents and 2) how to work the salary cap, where as a scout-based GM is not that well versed in those areas. I can squint and see that, and it does make me wonder about the Foles, Graham, etc contracts Pace has put us into. Maybe that is all the McCaskeys are thinking about.

[minnesotacubsfan]

 

Realistically, what do we need to add for next year to feel like we're putting Justin in a real position to succeed? Something like this?

 

- 2 starting caliber WRs

- 1 starting caliber TE

- A starting caliber Center

- A starting caliber guard (ideally just extend James Daniels)

- A tackle (these last few weeks to determine how good he needs to be)

 

With the cap space open this offseason, that's probably actually doable? You're left bargain hunting on defense, but I'd be happy to finally have a team that can win games 34-27.

 

 

Can we do this with defense building around Smith and Johnson?

 

 

- 1 starting caliber ILB to pair with Roquan

- 2 starting caliber CB (slot and boundary)

- 1 starting caliber S

- Rotational DL (ideally extend Nichols)

 

CB needs some real talent additions, the rest could patch up with cheap veterans

 

Maybe Graham Jr has taken the outside CB slot, the rest of our current roster can compete for the slot?

 

I also wonder about resigning Hicks

 

 

ILB should be easy to find on the FA market

[jumbo]

I even think the "best narrative" part is overrated. Nagy was a hot candidate and Frank Reich was leftovers after a coach backed out for Indy. Who has turned out better?

 

But still, would be better if the President had been in the building to evaluate things for themself? At this point even a very brilliant outside mind can only know so much about what specifically has ailed the Bears.

 

You would think that after last season, when Nagy and Pace convinced them to stay that they had to have, for at least a brief period of time, thought about the alternative to keeping them. This should not be a brand new concept to them as they have been asked about it by reporters in the past. I believe their answer was "Pace IS our football guy," which makes sense. Sooner or later there is a guy they trust to run the team and that person is Pace.

All of this is to say that if they don't already know what they want to do they're idiots (like undecided voters).

I've long been a proponent of the fact that a guy like Pace as your top football guy is fine. The question is whether Phillips as their top non football guy who football reports into makes sense. It does sound like their questioning thst, but yea are ak undecided that they're now unprepared. Did something really happen in the past 365 days that changed Phillips mind about changing his role?

 

So I'd be curious about what a guy like Armstrong's role actually looks like that broadly complements a primarily personnel/scout based GM at top of Football Ops. Something that is more than head of hiring and firing. Like DePodeata in CLE is all football ops based, but seems like hes broadly responsible for charting a course of a broad football ops expansion (heavily analytics driven).

 

More I read and think about Armstrong and I'm wondering if it's just about him being well connected to coaches and execs and if the intent is just an alternative to a hiring consultant? Or would he have a real permanent job?

 

I think Armstrong is a guy who could be asked all the questions people want the McCaskey's to answer and have a legitimate opinion on the direction of the team.

For example, ask the question, what qualities do you want your team to show on the field? The Steelers grade a player and then ask the question, "he's good, but is he a Steeler?" What does that mean - what qualities are they looking for based on their offensive and defensive schemes/philosphies? What character requirements or whatever else do they look for?

 

The current Bears roster is evidence of an absolute lack of a North star that would frame all subsequent decisions. I would think an Armstrong type would be the guy who sets the direction then signs off on FA strategy, big signings, whether to trade up or trade down, all balancing the long term with the short term. It's obvious that Phillips/McCaskey don't understand that balance or they would have moved on from at least Nagy after last offseason. There was no chance this team could compete this year and ownership let Pace and Nagy burn a year to win now. It's so dysfunctional.

Ultimately, you wonder why Trace wouldn't just do those things himself and not need a guy like Pace. He needs a Director of Pro Personnel type instead and then Pace is gone. I think it's just "give me a better football guy" in the end, and the rest is semantics.

[minnesotacubsfan]

.........

 

I think Armstrong is a guy who could be asked all the questions people want the McCaskey's to answer and have a legitimate opinion on the direction of the team.

For example, ask the question, what qualities do you want your team to show on the field? The Steelers grade a player and then ask the question, "he's good, but is he a Steeler?" What does that mean - what qualities are they looking for based on their offensive and defensive schemes/philosphies? What character requirements or whatever else do they look for?

 

The current Bears roster is evidence of an absolute lack of a North star that would frame all subsequent decisions. I would think an Armstrong type would be the guy who sets the direction then signs off on FA strategy, big signings, whether to trade up or trade down, all balancing the long term with the short term. It's obvious that Phillips/McCaskey don't understand that balance or they would have moved on from at least Nagy after last offseason. There was no chance this team could compete this year and ownership let Pace and Nagy burn a year to win now. It's so dysfunctional.

Ultimately, you wonder why Trace wouldn't just do those things himself and not need a guy like Pace. He needs a Director of Pro Personnel type instead and then Pace is gone. I think it's just "give me a better football guy" in the end, and the rest is semantics.

 

I'd really have to believe in Armstrong to think hes the guy, and I'm not sure I do. What about him makes anyone think that he could act in that role? Its kind of like head dictator and cultural director, almost Ditka like

[UMFan83]

 

Ratings will hit all time lows if Fields doesn't play this weekend.

[WrigleyField 22]

 

You would think that after last season, when Nagy and Pace convinced them to stay that they had to have, for at least a brief period of time, thought about the alternative to keeping them. This should not be a brand new concept to them as they have been asked about it by reporters in the past. I believe their answer was "Pace IS our football guy," which makes sense. Sooner or later there is a guy they trust to run the team and that person is Pace.

All of this is to say that if they don't already know what they want to do they're idiots (like undecided voters).

I've long been a proponent of the fact that a guy like Pace as your top football guy is fine. The question is whether Phillips as their top non football guy who football reports into makes sense. It does sound like their questioning thst, but yea are ak undecided that they're now unprepared. Did something really happen in the past 365 days that changed Phillips mind about changing his role?

 

So I'd be curious about what a guy like Armstrong's role actually looks like that broadly complements a primarily personnel/scout based GM at top of Football Ops. Something that is more than head of hiring and firing. Like DePodeata in CLE is all football ops based, but seems like hes broadly responsible for charting a course of a broad football ops expansion (heavily analytics driven).

 

More I read and think about Armstrong and I'm wondering if it's just about him being well connected to coaches and execs and if the intent is just an alternative to a hiring consultant? Or would he have a real permanent job?

 

I was skimming an article this morning with my morning coffee on why former agents would make better GMs, and the gist of the argument was that they understand 1) how to negotiate and not turn off players and agents and 2) how to work the salary cap, where as a scout-based GM is not that well versed in those areas. I can squint and see that, and it does make me wonder about the Foles, Graham, etc contracts Pace has put us into. Maybe that is all the McCaskeys are thinking about.

I don't find that idea without merit. A couple thoughts though.

 

There's two examples I can think of like that currently. Loomis in NO and Roseman in PHI. Neither was an agent, but both are the finance kind of GM, not scouts. Definitely in NO and maybe even at times in PHI, that GM pushed those personnel down to a HC with very broad personnel say. Philly kind of waffles a lot though, hence the Pederson power struggle and firing.

 

Many people still seem to be suggesting a Pres Football-GM-HC structure. That is a structure I don't immediately see a strong alignment of power and incentives. Say whatever you will about the traditional President role, but being answerable to profit/revenue/valuation does lend itself to a seemingly decent balance of long term strategic organization building and on the field winning. Everyone's roles and incentives line up pretty nicely in that scenario with just the typical GM-HC power struggles.

 

If Armstrong is just a untraditional GM that to me is different than an expectation than filling a traditional business/Pres role or filling some undetermined Football Ops role that isn't GM.

[minnesotacubsfan]

 

I was skimming an article this morning with my morning coffee on why former agents would make better GMs, and the gist of the argument was that they understand 1) how to negotiate and not turn off players and agents and 2) how to work the salary cap, where as a scout-based GM is not that well versed in those areas. I can squint and see that, and it does make me wonder about the Foles, Graham, etc contracts Pace has put us into. Maybe that is all the McCaskeys are thinking about.

I don't find that idea without merit. A couple thoughts though.

 

There's two examples I can think of like that currently. Loomis in NO and Roseman in PHI. Neither was an agent, but both are the finance kind of GM, not scouts. Definitely in NO and maybe even at times in PHI, that GM pushed those personnel down to a HC with very broad personnel say. Philly kind of waffles a lot though, hence the Pederson power struggle and firing.

 

Many people still seem to be suggesting a Pres Football-GM-HC structure. That is a structure I don't immediately see a strong alignment of power and incentives. Say whatever you will about the traditional President role, but being answerable to profit/revenue/valuation does lend itself to a seemingly decent balance of long term strategic organization building and on the field winning. Everyone's roles and incentives line up pretty nicely in that scenario with just the typical GM-HC power struggles.

 

If Armstrong is just a untraditional GM that to me is different than an expectation than filling a traditional business/Pres role or filling some undetermined Football Ops role that isn't GM.

 

I dont disagree, and its hard to understand what the Bears role for Armstrong really is at this point. The article also didnt delve into the Pres-GM-HC set up specifically, more just the idea of a former agent in the FO. I personally dont see letting a Drew Rosenhaus take over a team - it just screams ego, but I do feel more comfortable with a former player turned agent being the football guy in a FO.

[WrigleyField 22]

Did I miss a link? Which article specifically are you referencing?

[raw]

 

Realistically, what do we need to add for next year to feel like we're putting Justin in a real position to succeed? Something like this?

 

- 2 starting caliber WRs

- 1 starting caliber TE

- A starting caliber Center

- A starting caliber guard (ideally just extend James Daniels)

- A tackle (these last few weeks to determine how good he needs to be)

 

With the cap space open this offseason, that's probably actually doable? You're left bargain hunting on defense, but I'd be happy to finally have a team that can win games 34-27.

 

 

Can we do this with defense building around Smith and Johnson?

 

 

- 1 starting caliber ILB to pair with Roquan

- 2 starting caliber CB (slot and boundary)

- 1 starting caliber S

- Rotational DL (ideally extend Nichols)

 

CB needs some real talent additions, the rest could patch up with cheap veterans

 

Maybe Graham Jr has taken the outside CB slot, the rest of our current roster can compete for the slot?

 

I also wonder about resigning Hicks

 

 

ILB should be easy to find on the FA market

 

IDK what Graham could do to be given a starting spot next year. I think that's how you end up with a situation like this year. Ideally, if Graham, Vildor, and Shelley go into camp as your 4-5-6 CBs instead of Vildor and Shelley being numbers 2 & 3, then you have a decent CB room. I'd prefer to sign a guy with some flexibility to play inside or out, and then draft the best guy you can find in the 2nd or 3rd. Probably have to bring in another Burns or Trufant just in case you can't draft a guy good enough to compete since you have limited draft picks. But that signing could wait til summer.

 

I would not touch Hicks. 32 years old, missed 11 games in 2019 and going to miss all or parts of like 9-10 games this year. Love the guy and he's a monster when on the field, but I'm not spending the money to keep a guy that old, that big, and that injury prone. Bad combo. Plus, he's one of 2 guys (Robinson) that could bring back a comp pick.

[minnesotacubsfan]

Did I miss a link? Which article specifically are you referencing?

 

I mean, its the NY Post...so...

[minnesotacubsfan]

 

 

Can we do this with defense building around Smith and Johnson?

 

 

- 1 starting caliber ILB to pair with Roquan

- 2 starting caliber CB (slot and boundary)

- 1 starting caliber S

- Rotational DL (ideally extend Nichols)

 

CB needs some real talent additions, the rest could patch up with cheap veterans

 

Maybe Graham Jr has taken the outside CB slot, the rest of our current roster can compete for the slot?

 

I also wonder about resigning Hicks

 

 

ILB should be easy to find on the FA market

 

IDK what Graham could do to be given a starting spot next year. I think that's how you end up with a situation like this year. Ideally, if Graham, Vildor, and Shelley go into camp as your 4-5-6 CBs instead of Vildor and Shelley being numbers 2 & 3, then you have a decent CB room. I'd prefer to sign a guy with some flexibility to play inside or out, and then draft the best guy you can find in the 2nd or 3rd. Probably have to bring in another Burns or Trufant just in case you can't draft a guy good enough to compete since you have limited draft picks. But that signing could wait til summer.

 

I would not touch Hicks. 32 years old, missed 11 games in 2019 and going to miss all or parts of like 9-10 games this year. Love the guy and he's a monster when on the field, but I'm not spending the money to keep a guy that old, that big, and that injury prone. Bad combo. Plus, he's one of 2 guys (Robinson) that could bring back a comp pick.

 

yea, Hicks is a big risk. But I do think Graham could play himself into the starter role, at least take the pressure off the huge need in the secondary a bit.

[WrigleyField 22]

Did I miss a link? Which article specifically are you referencing?

 

I mean, its the NY Post...so...

Ah, quite old article too.

 

Forgot Bruce Allen was an agent. Make that a negative mark for hiring an agent lol.

[BigbadB]

I'm sure I'm in the minority, but I don't really have a problem with Pace. Every one of his 2021 picks has now played a game this year. Newsome probably only played because of Covid, but in these past two drafts, he has gotten Fields, Jenkins, Borom, Herbert, Graham, Kmet, Jaylon, Gipson and Mooney. He's also brought in Roquan and Montgomery, and that list is a big percentage of the players making things happen with this team. Only 4 of those picks over the last two years were before the 5th round, granted by his own doing. Nagy turned out to be a huge mistake, but he was a popular choice at the time given the success KC was having with him as OC. This is a team that was/is hurting for someone to create points, so grabbing a guy who was partially responsible for one of the best scoring teams in the league seemed like a good call at the time. So maybe give him a do over on picking the next coach. You really don't know what you will be getting with the next GM. It will either be someone who was recently fired or someone with no experience.

 

He may end up getting the axe, but I wouldn't be surprised if he finds a job right away somewhere else and eventually finds success rebuilding that organization. I just think Nagy has been THAT BAD. Nagy's next job might be as a Walmart greeter. Offensive guru? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[jersey cubs fan]

I'm sure I'm in the minority, but I don't really have a problem with Pace. Every one of his 2021 picks has now played a game this year. Newsome probably only played because of Covid, but in these past two drafts, he has gotten Fields, Jenkins, Borom, Herbert, Graham, Kmet, Jaylon, Gipson and Mooney. He's also brought in Roquan and Montgomery, and that list is a big percentage of the players making things happen with this team. Only 4 of those picks over the last two years were before the 5th round, granted by his own doing. Nagy turned out to be a huge mistake, but he was a popular choice at the time given the success KC was having with him as OC. This is a team that was/is hurting for someone to create points, so grabbing a guy who was partially responsible for one of the best scoring teams in the league seemed like a good call at the time. So maybe give him a do over on picking the next coach. You really don't know what you will be getting with the next GM. It will either be someone who was recently fired or someone with no experience.

 

He may end up getting the axe, but I wouldn't be surprised if he finds a job right away somewhere else and eventually finds success rebuilding that organization. I just think Nagy has been THAT BAD. Nagy's next job might be as a Walmart greeter. Offensive guru? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Kmet is worthless. That list is small, and every team has a group like that “making things happen”. This team is extremely light on talent. Secondary is weak. Pace gets caught desperate to fill holes and overspends to do it. He’s a poor strategist. Football is filled with guys that can spot a player. You need guys who can properly fill an NFL roster with salary cap restraints. And a guy who can identify coaching talent. Pace has failed miserably at this job.

[minnesotacubsfan]

But, he talks so smooooothly

[WrigleyField 22]

Pace has been just good enough to not leave the cupboard bare behind him. And he's done a lot apparently to build up the infrastructure in the org.

 

But yea, after 7 years, those little positives aren't enough to hang his hat on.

 

Depending on #secretextension status his contract is up. It's not just sticking it out another year. It's likely a new 3-4 year commitment.

 

If:

1. Pace did get a secret extension at some point and has a year or two left.

2. A new President is named and they decide to give Pace another year.

3. They jointly do the head coach search and bring in a big time coaching hire.

 

Then I'd be *just okay* for him getting one more year and seeing what a new coach can do with a Pace built roster. If it flops badly in 22, New coach is elevated (unquestionably) to top of Football Ops food chain and builds out FO staff from head coach as head of football ops.

[raw]

I'm sure I'm in the minority, but I don't really have a problem with Pace. Every one of his 2021 picks has now played a game this year. Newsome probably only played because of Covid, but in these past two drafts, he has gotten Fields, Jenkins, Borom, Herbert, Graham, Kmet, Jaylon, Gipson and Mooney. He's also brought in Roquan and Montgomery, and that list is a big percentage of the players making things happen with this team. Only 4 of those picks over the last two years were before the 5th round, granted by his own doing. Nagy turned out to be a huge mistake, but he was a popular choice at the time given the success KC was having with him as OC. This is a team that was/is hurting for someone to create points, so grabbing a guy who was partially responsible for one of the best scoring teams in the league seemed like a good call at the time. So maybe give him a do over on picking the next coach. You really don't know what you will be getting with the next GM. It will either be someone who was recently fired or someone with no experience.

 

He may end up getting the axe, but I wouldn't be surprised if he finds a job right away somewhere else and eventually finds success rebuilding that organization. I just think Nagy has been THAT BAD. Nagy's next job might be as a Walmart greeter. Offensive guru? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

 

I can buy that Pace may be getting better at his job. I mean, after 7 years there should be things he's learned from and does better at this point. But even those names aren't THAT big of a deal that he's irreplaceable. The group is largely unproven outside of Jaylon and Mooney. Fields was a no-brainer. And all those names can be credited to scouting. You keep the scouting mostly in tact and that's not an issue.

 

It's just really concerning that the organization didn't really seem to plan for this situation. I believe someone mentioned it, but we know Pace and Nagy basically had to campaign to keep their jobs last January. Why didn't ownership plan out a scenario where they could want to fire them again the year after, especially if there were no extensions involved? Now the potential Pres of Football Operation thing will delay everything. You can fire both Pace and Nagy without a Pres., but you can't really hire a HC or GM without one if your plan is to get one. I know they don't necessarily have to be in a hurry to hire any of these positions and there will be no shortage of candidates even if every team in need hires a HC/GM first, but if they do their true due diligence with all of these hires, you could be looking at going into the combine and draft season without a front office or a direction.

 

If you want to keep Nagy til the end of the year, fine. But announce it this week so you can interview. Pace can be in on the interviews without making a decision. Use the last 2 weeks of the season to also interview team Pres candidates if that's the direction you're going in. He gets hired a week or 2 into the playoffs and has til the Superbowl to figure out what to do with Pace. From there go into HC interviews. Depending on who you have your eye on as HC, you might not even need a GM first. I'd imagine a guy like Josh McDaniels is allowed to bring in a Pats FO guy with him if necessary, so you can even cut that process down some if you want.

[Bertz]

Much like even most bad head coaches are great coordinators, I could see Pace being a great Pro Scouting Director or something like that. But you've gotta let him go do that somewhere else, I can't imagine a situation where he sticks around here and it's not a dysfunctional nightmare.

[WrigleyField 22]

Much like even most bad head coaches are great coordinators, I could see Pace being a great Pro Scouting Director or something like that. But you've gotta let him go do that somewhere else, I can't imagine a situation where he sticks around here and it's not a dysfunctional nightmare.

Yep. I think there's just this general fan misconception that the requirement is to bring in a brilliant football mind and if they fail it means the guys a dummy and that was the issue. I don't doubt Pace has some awesome traits, but I feel like in 7 years time we've seen enough to know the entire package isnt right. There isn't a shortage of bright football minds out there that makes Pace too smart to let go. Go find a new smart guy.

 

Maybe there some extenuating and background knowledge only those in the weeds know and have good reason to believe Paces best days are ahead, but I'm skeptical.

 

One of my biggest worries is whether he just has the right attitude to be the leader. In the Wiederer article it talked about how he hates conflict and aims to avoid it. Now, unnamed source and all, but I feel like the circumstantial evidence can be formed to actually support that claim. That to me, if accurate is a flatal flaw that goes deeper than just evaluating individual hits and misses. A guy in that top spot can't be leading an echo chamber where avoidance of disagreement and conflict are rewarded in the name of uh, "collaboration" and "conviction".