NBA 20-21 Season

[squally1313]

The issues are glaringly obvious, and the contract is huge, but even if it never gets fixed, Rajon Rondo but also a lockdown defender is still pretty valuable right?

[raw]

The issues are glaringly obvious, and the contract is huge, but even if it never gets fixed, Rajon Rondo but also a lockdown defender is still pretty valuable right?

 

Even Rondo has increased his willingness to shoot the ball later in his career. He's not great at it or at the FT line, but he's willing to get to the line or take an open shot. Prime Rondo didn't really shoot the ball much, but he also was not a max contract or a #2 option. He had KG, Pierce and Allen to do the scoring. With the money Simmons is making, you can't surround him with the 3 scorers you need to make up for his lack of shooting.

[squally1313]

The issues are glaringly obvious, and the contract is huge, but even if it never gets fixed, Rajon Rondo but also a lockdown defender is still pretty valuable right?

 

Even Rondo has increased his willingness to shoot the ball later in his career. He's not great at it or at the FT line, but he's willing to get to the line or take an open shot. Prime Rondo didn't really shoot the ball much, but he also was not a max contract or a #2 option. He had KG, Pierce and Allen to do the scoring. With the money Simmons is making, you can't surround him with the 3 scorers you need to make up for his lack of shooting.

 

Simmons averaged 10 shots a game, making 55%. Rondo never shot more than 12 per game, and after age 29 never averaged double digit shots. Simmons shot 61% from the line this year, Rondo was a career 61% FT shooter, with some much worse years than Simmons ever had. The contract situation is obviously very different, but unless you think this playoff stretch is what he'll be going forward, I think he's definitely a second/third piece with 2 proven scorers and a Clarkson/idealized Coby White type off the bench.

[raw]

The issues are glaringly obvious, and the contract is huge, but even if it never gets fixed, Rajon Rondo but also a lockdown defender is still pretty valuable right?

 

Even Rondo has increased his willingness to shoot the ball later in his career. He's not great at it or at the FT line, but he's willing to get to the line or take an open shot. Prime Rondo didn't really shoot the ball much, but he also was not a max contract or a #2 option. He had KG, Pierce and Allen to do the scoring. With the money Simmons is making, you can't surround him with the 3 scorers you need to make up for his lack of shooting.

 

Simmons averaged 10 shots a game, making 55%. Rondo never shot more than 12 per game, and after age 29 never averaged double digit shots. Simmons shot 61% from the line this year, Rondo was a career 61% FT shooter, with some much worse years than Simmons ever had. The contract situation is obviously very different, but unless you think this playoff stretch is what he'll be going forward, I think he's definitely a second/third piece with 2 proven scorers and a Clarkson/idealized Coby White type off the bench.

 

It's not necessarily what I expect going forward full-time, but it'd be nuts to assume this won't happen when the lights get bright again. Simmons is a worse FT shooter for his career than Rondo (59%). And his shot attempts have gone down from 10 to 8 and 11.5 to under 10 in the playoffs the last 2 years. The difference in shooting percentage can be summed up by 6'10 vs. 6'1, which is where Simmons maintains some value. 76ers had that blueprint you speak of with Embiid, Harris and Curry and it still wasn't good enough. I said in the Bulls thread though that i'd be willing to give Simmons a shot with LaVine, Vucevic and Coby White and hope having the top option be a wing instead of a C would help. But I wouldn't give up anything worthwhile to take that shot.

[soccer10k]

Rondo has 91 career playoff games where he played 30+ minutes and in only 4 of those did he take 6 or fewer shots. Two of those were in the 2008 season when he was a 21 year old second year player.

 

Simmons had three games this series of 30+ minutes and 4 or fewer shots.

 

Simmons isn’t a bad player and he can still be a valuable regular season player. But the playoffs are different. Teams exploit weakness way more in the playoffs than the regular season. This wasn’t a bad shooting stretch. He’s a headcase at the moment. How else do you explain him only taking 3 shots total in the 4th quarters of the 7 games other than him being terrified to get fouled?

 

At this point, I think we’re much more likely to see this type of play from him continue into next year. What’s going to happen to him in the regular season the first time a team starts fouling him in the 4th quarter? Maybe it won’t carry over to the regular season. And maybe he’ll figure something out and it won’t happen in the playoffs next year. But he’s in his own head right now and I don’t think you can count on him to be the second best player on a contender in the playoffs.

[squally1313]

 

Even Rondo has increased his willingness to shoot the ball later in his career. He's not great at it or at the FT line, but he's willing to get to the line or take an open shot. Prime Rondo didn't really shoot the ball much, but he also was not a max contract or a #2 option. He had KG, Pierce and Allen to do the scoring. With the money Simmons is making, you can't surround him with the 3 scorers you need to make up for his lack of shooting.

 

Simmons averaged 10 shots a game, making 55%. Rondo never shot more than 12 per game, and after age 29 never averaged double digit shots. Simmons shot 61% from the line this year, Rondo was a career 61% FT shooter, with some much worse years than Simmons ever had. The contract situation is obviously very different, but unless you think this playoff stretch is what he'll be going forward, I think he's definitely a second/third piece with 2 proven scorers and a Clarkson/idealized Coby White type off the bench.

 

It's not necessarily what I expect going forward full-time, but it'd be nuts to assume this won't happen when the lights get bright again. Simmons is a worse FT shooter for his career than Rondo (59%). And his shot attempts have gone down from 10 to 8 and 11.5 to under 10 in the playoffs the last 2 years. The difference in shooting percentage can be summed up by 6'10 vs. 6'1, which is where Simmons maintains some value. 76ers had that blueprint you speak of with Embiid, Harris and Curry and it still wasn't good enough. I said in the Bulls thread though that i'd be willing to give Simmons a shot with LaVine, Vucevic and Coby White and hope having the top option be a wing instead of a C would help. But I wouldn't give up anything worthwhile to take that shot.

 

Yeah, which I think you're just higher on Williams than I am. Still think there's a good chance he puts it together at some point, but the odds of that lining up with this two year stretch of Lavine/Vuc are pretty low, in my opinion.

[soccer10k]

First time since 1994 that neither 1 seed made the conference finals.

[Sosa21MVP]

First time since 1994 that neither 1 seed made the conference finals.

 

Someone better keep an eye on OJ.

[SpongeWorthy]

cam Payne was maybe the worst player I’d ever seen on bad bulls teams and now he’s maybe the best player in the western conference finals

[soccer10k]

That’s a great final play from Phoenix.

[SpongeWorthy]

Sooo espn didn’t show any decent replays on the play before the ayton lob but I didn’t see any clippers touch the ball before it went oob

[We Got The Whole 9]

One of the best GW plays/shots I can recall. That was ridiculous. Really want Phoenix to get the title. Doing this without Paul, too, which is nuts.

 

Lol George

[Old Style]

One of the best GW plays/shots I can recall. That was ridiculous. Really want Phoenix to get the title. Doing this without Paul, too, which is nuts.

 

Lol George

Yeah, the Suns are missing CP but don't forget that the Clippers are without Kawhi.

[UMFan83]

It's almost like the Clippers want to go down 0-2 every series. Would be hilarious if they came back to win another series

[Derwood]

These playoffs show how out of touch I am with the NBA. I assumed that Suns, Hawks, etc. were just going to suck in perpetuity, and here they are

[NOLA]

These playoffs show how out of touch I am with the NBA. I assumed that Suns, Hawks, etc. were just going to suck in perpetuity, and here they are

If not for Chris Paul and Trae Young, they would still be sorta sucking, mediocre at best.

[UMFan83]

These playoffs show how out of touch I am with the NBA. I assumed that Suns, Hawks, etc. were just going to suck in perpetuity, and here they are

 

It's a really weird season. Lots of injuries due to short offseason for some plus the condensed season. If LeBron and AD are healthy, or maybe even if Klay doesnt miss the entire season, you probably see the usual suspects winning in the playoffs. If Kyrie and Harden are healthy, they almost certainly get past the Bucks and continue the superteam trend. But maybe we're headed to an age of parity similar to the mid-70's NBA. The Raptors winning the title is still incredible to me and now seeing 4 teams left that all have 50+ year championship droughts including 2 teams that came out of nowhere without top 10 players...just really unexpected for the NBA.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Sooo espn didn’t show any decent replays on the play before the ayton lob but I didn’t see any clippers touch the ball before it went oob

 

Agreed. I thought it was out on the Suns live.

[soccer10k]

Sooo espn didn’t show any decent replays on the play before the ayton lob but I didn’t see any clippers touch the ball before it went oob

 

I had the same thought about there not being a better view. There was another replay late there they kept showing the zoomed out view and I was wondering why they weren’t showing a better view.

[Sosa21MVP]

Rick Carlisle to the Pacers. =D>

[raw]

These playoffs show how out of touch I am with the NBA. I assumed that Suns, Hawks, etc. were just going to suck in perpetuity, and here they are

 

It's a really weird season. Lots of injuries due to short offseason for some plus the condensed season. If LeBron and AD are healthy, or maybe even if Klay doesnt miss the entire season, you probably see the usual suspects winning in the playoffs. If Kyrie and Harden are healthy, they almost certainly get past the Bucks and continue the superteam trend. But maybe we're headed to an age of parity similar to the mid-70's NBA. The Raptors winning the title is still incredible to me and now seeing 4 teams left that all have 50+ year championship droughts including 2 teams that came out of nowhere without top 10 players...just really unexpected for the NBA.

 

I actually wouldn't be surprised to see the superteam thing go away in a couple years. Could have LeBron retiring, which is a huge reason for superteams (him orchestrating some and some being created simply to beat him). Especially if the Clippers and Nets fail to win again next year, and you have the Bucks, Suns and Hawks all in the final 4 teams without superteams. I think you could see players taking the opposite approach and getting with teams where they are the unquestioned star who the team is built around, because the last 3 years has shown (Warriors injuries, 76ers, Clippers, Nets, 2021 Lakers) that a superteam falls apart if all the stars aren't healthy and/or playing at an elite level. The depth just isn't good enough because it has to be depleted to get stars.

[ChiCubsFan]

These playoffs show how out of touch I am with the NBA. I assumed that Suns, Hawks, etc. were just going to suck in perpetuity, and here they are

 

It's a really weird season. Lots of injuries due to short offseason for some plus the condensed season. If LeBron and AD are healthy, or maybe even if Klay doesnt miss the entire season, you probably see the usual suspects winning in the playoffs. If Kyrie and Harden are healthy, they almost certainly get past the Bucks and continue the superteam trend. But maybe we're headed to an age of parity similar to the mid-70's NBA. The Raptors winning the title is still incredible to me and now seeing 4 teams left that all have 50+ year championship droughts including 2 teams that came out of nowhere without top 10 players...just really unexpected for the NBA.

 

I actually wouldn't be surprised to see the superteam thing go away in a couple years. Could have LeBron retiring, which is a huge reason for superteams (him orchestrating some and some being created simply to beat him). Especially if the Clippers and Nets fail to win again next year, and you have the Bucks, Suns and Hawks all in the final 4 teams without superteams. I think you could see players taking the opposite approach and getting with teams where they are the unquestioned star who the team is built around, because the last 3 years has shown (Warriors injuries, 76ers, Clippers, Nets, 2021 Lakers) that a superteam falls apart if all the stars aren't healthy and/or playing at an elite level. The depth just isn't good enough because it has to be depleted to get stars.

 

I don’t completely disagree. But you think a non-superteam could handle losing their only star and competing? Regardless if your star(s) aren’t healthy in the playoffs, you’re not going anywhere. Brooklyn lost 2/3 stars and still almost got past Milwaukee. It’s all luck on health.

[raw]

 

It's a really weird season. Lots of injuries due to short offseason for some plus the condensed season. If LeBron and AD are healthy, or maybe even if Klay doesnt miss the entire season, you probably see the usual suspects winning in the playoffs. If Kyrie and Harden are healthy, they almost certainly get past the Bucks and continue the superteam trend. But maybe we're headed to an age of parity similar to the mid-70's NBA. The Raptors winning the title is still incredible to me and now seeing 4 teams left that all have 50+ year championship droughts including 2 teams that came out of nowhere without top 10 players...just really unexpected for the NBA.

 

I actually wouldn't be surprised to see the superteam thing go away in a couple years. Could have LeBron retiring, which is a huge reason for superteams (him orchestrating some and some being created simply to beat him). Especially if the Clippers and Nets fail to win again next year, and you have the Bucks, Suns and Hawks all in the final 4 teams without superteams. I think you could see players taking the opposite approach and getting with teams where they are the unquestioned star who the team is built around, because the last 3 years has shown (Warriors injuries, 76ers, Clippers, Nets, 2021 Lakers) that a superteam falls apart if all the stars aren't healthy and/or playing at an elite level. The depth just isn't good enough because it has to be depleted to get stars.

 

I don’t completely disagree. But you think a non-superteam could handle losing their only star and competing? Regardless if your star(s) aren’t healthy in the playoffs, you’re not going anywhere. Brooklyn lost 2/3 stars and still almost got past Milwaukee. It’s all luck on health.

 

No, that wasn't the point I was making. But using the Nets as an example. KD not winning a title this year is probably based on the fact that Kyrie and Harden got hurt. So, KD may see this and be like, "my ring depends on someone else staying healthy". He obviously has the talent to lead a team to a title as the unquestioned star. Brooklyn might have won that series (and still be title favorites) if they never did the Harden trade and they held onto Jarrett Allen, Taurean Prince and Caris LeVert and they were healthy. So if he goes elsewhere he just has to bet on his own health instead of putting risk that 2 other guys are taking care of their body enough to get thru 82 games plus 4 rounds of playoff games.

[17 Seconds]

i've never seen the refs blatantly keep a star in the game like that

[soccer10k]

i've never seen the refs blatantly keep a star in the game like that

 

Yeah, it’s like they felt bad that Booker was dumb enough to keep contesting shots with 5 fouls. He could have fouled out a couple times. The one on Holliday where Holliday dumped it off to another player (Giannis?) was horrid. I think that was the one with 3:30ish left. Just let him get the two points, dude. Be smarter. If there's 10 seconds left and you're up 1? That's different. But you need to stay in the game.