Bears Week 14: Deshaun Watson Makes his Soldier Field Debut

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Well absolutely terrible day for the Bears draft pick hopes and I don’t think their playoff odds got much better either. All 3 current WC teams won, but the Vikings did lose which helps since they currently have the tiebreaker over us.

 

I’m glad they looked good I guess but we are in NFL hell I guess. I wouldn’t care nearly as much about our draft pick if we had the QB, but since we don’t we’re not bad enough to get a high pick and we’re not good enough to make the playoffs. Also concerned with a decent finish does to our cleaning house

I'm not sure NFL hell really exists like it does in basketball.

 

It may be that I'm just in general very emotionally detached from the Bears these days, but I just don't care. The draft slot between 8 and like 15 isn't gonna end up being the difference maker.

 

NFL hell is when you don't have a franchise QB.

[UMFan83]

Well absolutely terrible day for the Bears draft pick hopes and I don’t think their playoff odds got much better either. All 3 current WC teams won, but the Vikings did lose which helps since they currently have the tiebreaker over us.

 

I’m glad they looked good I guess but we are in NFL hell I guess. I wouldn’t care nearly as much about our draft pick if we had the QB, but since we don’t we’re not bad enough to get a high pick and we’re not good enough to make the playoffs. Also concerned with a decent finish does to our cleaning house

I'm not sure NFL hell really exists like it does in basketball.

 

It may be that I'm just in general very emotionally detached from the Bears these days, but I just don't care. The draft slot between 8 and like 15 isn't gonna end up being the difference maker.

 

NFL hell is when you don't have a franchise QB.

 

Yes, that is exactly what I meant. If you have a top ~12QB there is no NFL hell because you can piece together a contender without necessarily needing a top 10 pick.

 

If you need a great QB you are probably going to find one at the top half of the first round. Bears need a QB but they are going to pick after the first 4 QBs are off the board. So they will have to find a stop gap which doesn’t really work that well in the NFL and try again in 2022. Or resign Mitch which...please no

[raw]

I'm not sure NFL hell really exists like it does in basketball.

 

It may be that I'm just in general very emotionally detached from the Bears these days, but I just don't care. The draft slot between 8 and like 15 isn't gonna end up being the difference maker.

 

NFL hell is when you don't have a franchise QB.

 

Yes, that is exactly what I meant. If you have a top ~12QB there is no NFL hell because you can piece together a contender without necessarily needing a top 10 pick.

 

If you need a great QB you are probably going to find one at the top half of the first round. Bears need a QB but they are going to pick after the first 4 QBs are off the board. So they will have to find a stop gap which doesn’t really work that well in the NFL and try again in 2022. Or resign Mitch which...please no

 

Eh. Tell the Lions, Chargers (Rivers years), and Falcons that having a top 12 QB means no NFL hell. NFC is constantly putting teams in the Superbowl with a middle of the pack starting QB.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

OK fine if we can get Mitch on a cheap two-year deal I'd rather have him than Foles be the caretaker for our next QB

[Soul]

Pretty sure Allen was on his way out, now he’s good. Is it really Mitch or do we just not know how to make him successful?

[WrigleyField 22]

Pretty sure Allen was on his way out, now he’s good. Is it really Mitch or do we just not know how to make him successful?

Its mostly Mitch I think. But I think the Allen success is an interesting case study. Shape your game plan to your players and not vice versa.

[UMFan83]

 

NFL hell is when you don't have a franchise QB.

 

Yes, that is exactly what I meant. If you have a top ~12QB there is no NFL hell because you can piece together a contender without necessarily needing a top 10 pick.

 

If you need a great QB you are probably going to find one at the top half of the first round. Bears need a QB but they are going to pick after the first 4 QBs are off the board. So they will have to find a stop gap which doesn’t really work that well in the NFL and try again in 2022. Or resign Mitch which...please no

 

Eh. Tell the Lions, Chargers (Rivers years), and Falcons that having a top 12 QB means no NFL hell. NFC is constantly putting teams in the Superbowl with a middle of the pack starting QB.

 

They use the term NBA hell to describe teams that are good enough to not be in the playoff lottery but not bad enough to get a top pick. Superstars make such a gigantic difference in the NBA that a team that doesn’t have one (especially in a small market) needs to get some lottery luck to acquire one.

 

Similar thing in the NFL but only in regards to QBs. A good one makes such a gigantic difference but you are very unlikely to get one later in the first round or via FA. Those teams you mentioned had good QBs but of course even good QBs need talent around them to succeed. That other talent can be grabbed later in the draft, via FA or via trade. Their failure to get that talent ultimately limited their success, but they were never in a position where they needed to lose to dramatically change the fortunes of the franchise.

 

Basically all I’m saying is the Bears need a franchise QB and they are too good to have a top 10 pick which greatly increases the odds of finding one. But they are too bad to be anything better than a fringe playoff team

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Even if NFL hell isn't real I don't care. I would rather see the franchise burn and fold than go through another decade of "hey the defense is pretty good, too be about the QB"

[minnesotacubsfan]

Even if NFL hell isn't real I don't care. I would rather see the franchise burn and fold than go through another decade of "hey the defense is pretty good, too be about the QB"

That's a tad dramatic. Maybe you could just stop watching football if it scares you so much.

[raw]

Interested to see what a 2-year deal would look like for Mitch. He's in the exact same situation as Mariota. Former #2 pick. Lost his job in his final season with the Titans. Unlike Mitch, he never got his job back and his replacement played great football. But Mariota got 2-years, 19M+ from the Raiders. Only 7.5 guaranteed, but 9M+ cap number this year, and no dead money, so he'll definitely be cut after this season.

 

I think it's a pretty clear overpay for Mariota, who hasn't even played this season. But he was also going to a situation where he was a clear backup. If Mitch re-signs it'll probably be with a shot to start. I'm not sure how much that would factor in negotiations.

 

Tyrod Taylor/Ryan Fitzpatrick got 2 years/ 11Mil/ 5.5 per year. I think Trubisky's situation can be seen as similar to those also. Taylor was originally brought to LA on his deal as a clear backup, but then was the bridge starter this year. Fitzpatrick was brought in as the bridge guy immediately, but in a competition with a young QB (Rosen in 2019, Tua in 2020).

 

But then you have guys like Newton and Winston who got 1 year, 1.5- 1.75Mil. One was a clear backup, other in a competition to start. But if Trubisky is free to choose where he wants to go, and the Bears aren't interested in bringing him back.....that's the type of deal I would imagine he'll get from another team to be a true backup.

[BigbadB]

The play calling yesterday was pretty solid. Mitch was actually much better at hitting his targets. He even saw the field better, but with all of that said, it was the Texans.

 

It's going to be interesting to see who gets to make the decision on how this team improves this offseason, and how they go about it. I don't see any team wanting Trubisky to be their starter next year, so bringing him back on the cheap makes some sense if he truly is starting to finally turn a corner, especially if Nagy and Pace keep their jobs. A new coach may want to clean house with the QB stable.

[WrigleyField 22]

Interested to see what a 2-year deal would look like for Mitch. He's in the exact same situation as Mariota. Former #2 pick. Lost his job in his final season with the Titans. Unlike Mitch, he never got his job back and his replacement played great football. But Mariota got 2-years, 19M+ from the Raiders. Only 7.5 guaranteed, but 9M+ cap number this year, and no dead money, so he'll definitely be cut after this season.

 

I think it's a pretty clear overpay for Mariota, who hasn't even played this season. But he was also going to a situation where he was a clear backup. If Mitch re-signs it'll probably be with a shot to start. I'm not sure how much that would factor in negotiations.

 

Tyrod Taylor/Ryan Fitzpatrick got 2 years/ 11Mil/ 5.5 per year. I think Trubisky's situation can be seen as similar to those also. Taylor was originally brought to LA on his deal as a clear backup, but then was the bridge starter this year. Fitzpatrick was brought in as the bridge guy immediately, but in a competition with a young QB (Rosen in 2019, Tua in 2020).

 

But then you have guys like Newton and Winston who got 1 year, 1.5- 1.75Mil. One was a clear backup, other in a competition to start. But if Trubisky is free to choose where he wants to go, and the Bears aren't interested in bringing him back.....that's the type of deal I would imagine he'll get from another team to be a true backup.

Yea I think a Tyrod Taylor type deal is the max for Trubisky, Call it 2/10 in consideration of the cap crunch. I'm not sure I would really love that verse just going through whatever else the backup QB market spits out at like half that cost, knowing you still really need to put resources into the draft to find a franchise play caller. Although I also don't really see any point to having Trubiksy and Foles. In this scenario, just see if you can trade Foles for like a 6th rounder in 2022. Mitch + Rookie, and if you feel you need another vet and need to carry 3, just wait on the market and get the scraps from the likes of Fitz, Flacco, etc who don't get signed elsewhere and are teamless come July.

 

Or here's a wild idea. Foles for Wentz + a pick (say a third?). It has to go through within the first 3 days of the league year to be really cap beneficial for Philly, but they are in cap hell and could use the help. They take a big hit in 2021, but by accelerating all his other dead cap, they can play with other contracts to free up the space they desperately need in 2021 by deferring some guaranteed money into signing bonus and pro-rating it over several years. Critically, they get out of $25m in guarantees, which the Bears take on. The Bears take on the rest which would basically be a 100/4 with the first year guaranteed @ $25M. If he still sucks in 2021, they walk away free and clear. Obviously the Bears have tight cap as well, but if the cap stays flat, its doable. They could also always restructure part of his 2021 guarantee as well to defer some as well.

[minnesotacubsfan]

I know Wentz is playing with a lackluster supporting cast, but no thanks

[raw]

No interest in any QB that's going to prevent the Bears from drafting a QB other than Dak.

 

On a sidenote, I just read that the only QB of the 23 drafted in the top 5 this century to win a Superbowl is Eli Manning, who obviously won twice. Wentz technically has a SB ring too, but was obviously injured.

[gflore34]

Pretty sure Allen was on his way out, now he’s good. Is it really Mitch or do we just not know how to make him successful?

Its mostly Mitch I think. But I think the Allen success is an interesting case study. Shape your game plan to your players and not vice versa.

 

Isn't that what a quality coach does? Put his players in the best position to succeed and thereby, put the team in the best position to succeed?

[WrigleyField 22]

No interest in any QB that's going to prevent the Bears from drafting a QB other than Dak.

 

On a sidenote, I just read that the only QB of the 23 drafted in the top 5 this century to win a Superbowl is Eli Manning, who obviously won twice. Wentz technically has a SB ring too, but was obviously injured.

I don't think a hypothetical Wentz trade necessarily stops that. It's basically a cap dump like the Osewiler trade, hence the draft pick inclusion. Just one with perhaps a bit of upside attached to it. Granted that's cap you're not allocating to the OL, but I suppose it matters who's running the ship in 2021 and whether they have a win now mandate or not. It's theoretically doable though, and there's a legit argument for the Eagles to do it, it's just very hamstrung by basically being a 3 day window because of the roster bonus due.

 

Obvioiusly there's a handful of teams with much more cap space that could offer the same deal.

[WrigleyField 22]

Pretty sure Allen was on his way out, now he’s good. Is it really Mitch or do we just not know how to make him successful?

Its mostly Mitch I think. But I think the Allen success is an interesting case study. Shape your game plan to your players and not vice versa.

 

Isn't that what a quality coach does? Put his players in the best position to succeed and thereby, put the team in the best position to succeed?

In theory everyone says that, but there's definitely a spectrum of system guys verse non system types.

[WrigleyField 22]

Unconfirmed by very interesting rumor:

 

https://twitter.com/ZimmermanSXM/status/1338545531992338432?s=19

 

I said in last week's thread that a Black Monday trifecta wouldn't make sense. A potential pres replacement can't operate at the same time as a coach and GM search. If this is also in a scenario where Phillips is quietly "retiring" they could also be kicking the treads on his possible replacement now (though I wouldn't be surprised if it was internal too, just cuz McCaskeys).

 

But this would make some sense. Just have to make sure Pace doesnt GM like he's trying to save his job and trade away like 3 future 1st round picks.

[minnesotacubsfan]

... Just have to make sure Pace doesnt GM like he's trying to save his job and trade away like 3 future 1st round picks.

 

 

...and you all want to trade up

[WrigleyField 22]

... Just have to make sure Pace doesnt GM like he's trying to save his job and trade away like 3 future 1st round picks.

 

 

...and you all want to trade up

He's allowed to trade up if its his own mess he gets to clean up lol. That's the pull for any GM mortgaging a future away. If he's signed through 2022 instead of 2021 he's basically still on the hot seat, which is just slightly better than being a true lame duck.

[minnesotacubsfan]

... Just have to make sure Pace doesnt GM like he's trying to save his job and trade away like 3 future 1st round picks.

 

 

...and you all want to trade up

He's allowed to trade up if its his own mess he gets to clean up lol. That's the pull for any GM mortgaging a future away. If he's signed through 2022 instead of 2021 he's basically still on the hot seat, which is just slightly better than being a true lame duck.

 

I'm 90% joking. I could live with a trade up, but it really has to be smartly done and the guy he chooses had better be a perennial pro bowl player. As he is now, Trubisky is average to a hair above average, so anyone Pace replaces him with has to be better.

[WrigleyField 22]

 

 

...and you all want to trade up

He's allowed to trade up if its his own mess he gets to clean up lol. That's the pull for any GM mortgaging a future away. If he's signed through 2022 instead of 2021 he's basically still on the hot seat, which is just slightly better than being a true lame duck.

 

I'm 90% joking. I could live with a trade up, but it really has to be smartly done and the guy he chooses had better be a perennial pro bowl player. As he is now, Trubisky is average to a hair above average, so anyone Pace replaces him with has to be better.

I'd say he's pretty firmly in the below average category. It's just good scheme can mask below average, even over a fairly long span.

[minnesotacubsfan]

He's allowed to trade up if its his own mess he gets to clean up lol. That's the pull for any GM mortgaging a future away. If he's signed through 2022 instead of 2021 he's basically still on the hot seat, which is just slightly better than being a true lame duck.

 

I'm 90% joking. I could live with a trade up, but it really has to be smartly done and the guy he chooses had better be a perennial pro bowl player. As he is now, Trubisky is average to a hair above average, so anyone Pace replaces him with has to be better.

I'd say he's pretty firmly in the below average category. It's just good scheme can mask below average, even over a fairly long span.

 

the last 2 games have def helped his numbers and I should probably wait until the end of the season to qualify him, but my thoughts on trading up stand. I'm def snake bitten by rotten QB drafts, but there's a sense I have that "the devil you know is better then the devil you dont".

[UMFan83]

 

Had someone tell me that Pace received an unannounced 1-year contract extension to line up his contract with Nagy. If true, I think its unlikely you see a Pace-Nagy firing this year. I think you see a new team President get a year to evaluate and make decisions after 2021. #Bears

 

— Bill Zimmerman (@ZimmermanSXM) December 14, 2020

 

This tweet has since been deleted and he said this:

 

[Soul]

No interest in any QB that's going to prevent the Bears from drafting a QB other than Dak.

 

On a sidenote, I just read that the only QB of the 23 drafted in the top 5 this century to win a Superbowl is Eli Manning, who obviously won twice. Wentz technically has a SB ring too, but was obviously injured.

 

Kind of sounds right. If so then I'm not going to worry so much about finishing horribly so we can draft super high to get a franchise QB, when most of the franchise QBs don't come from there. Besides, we've picked high QBs before too and they didn't magically result in SBs.