Bears Week 14: Deshaun Watson Makes his Soldier Field Debut

[David]

A good, short thread on Mitch the bumslayer.

 

Who is pushing back against the idea that Mitch has had some success against garbage teams?

 

maybe minnesota? lol

[WrigleyField 22]

No not here so much, but I believe him when he says he gets that pushback on Twitter based on what I've seen. So, I don't know I guess I wasn't trying to convince anyone here, but thought it was an interesting thread nonetheless.

[jersey cubs fan]

No not here so much, but I believe him when he says he gets that pushback on Twitter based on what I've seen. So, I don't know I guess I wasn't trying to convince anyone here, but thought it was an interesting thread nonetheless.

 

It's meaningful information and worth keeping in mind. And while I'm sure some people are out there saying, "this time it's different with MItch" I really doubt he's had a decent amount of pushback against the idea that Mitch has been a bum slayer and sucked against decent defenses. He just wanted to make a twitter thread to include his chart.

[minnesotacubsfan]

A good, short thread on Mitch the bumslayer.

 

Who is pushing back against the idea that Mitch has had some success against garbage teams?

 

maybe minnesota? lol

 

no, I'm uniquely aware, like us all. But I also saw last game a game-plan change with shorter, quicker passes and I really wonder why that is happening. Is it Lazor or is it the opportunity for exploitation the Houston D presented? If its simple "playing bad defenses", why haven't we seen it prior against other bad defenses (or have we, I don't recall that play calling in the Nagy era)? Was it all keyed off of Montys 80 yrd run? This is from fansided so read into it as you may, but I thought this was interesting:

 

In his career, he averages 8.3 air yards per pass attempt. However, against Detroit, that number was just 6.2 and against Houston, it was 4.4. Sunday was the lowest air yards per attempt of his career, while the week before his sixth-lowest rate. One note that is interesting is that Trubisky is 5-0 in games where he averages less than 6.2 air yards per attempt and could have been 6-0 at 6.3 or lower had the Bears not blown the lead to the Lions.

 

https://beargoggleson.com/2020/12/16/chicago-bears-figure-something-mitch-trubisky/?utm_campaign=apple-news&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=apple-news

 

I'm looking forward to seeing how the play calling continues or changes going forward honestly. the key to getting the most from Trubisky might be by limiting his reads to easy ones, ie take away his biggest issue: not being able to read a defense

[David]

i'm not gonna dig up his air yards per attempt because that's way more effort than this subject deserves at this point, but i remember that being a common criticism of him from the analytic sites when things were going well in the past. lots of short passes inflating his completion percentages and not enough deep stuff.

[minnesotacubsfan]

i'm not gonna dig up his air yards per attempt because that's way more effort than this subject deserves at this point, but i remember that being a common criticism of him from the analytic sites when things were going well in the past. lots of short passes inflating his completion percentages and not enough deep stuff.

 

yea, I seem to remember that too, and I thought it was that he was inaccurate on the long passes or making the wrong reads. It looks like Lazor has finally said "f-the deep ball", however. And lets not forget that Foles himself called Nagy out on the deep, long developing plays not working.

 

what if Nagys offense works w/o a lot of deep stuff? I guess we get 3 more games to find out. maybe

[jersey cubs fan]

i'm not gonna dig up his air yards per attempt because that's way more effort than this subject deserves at this point, but i remember that being a common criticism of him from the analytic sites when things were going well in the past. lots of short passes inflating his completion percentages and not enough deep stuff.

 

yea, I seem to remember that too, and I thought it was that he was inaccurate on the long passes or making the wrong reads. It looks like Lazor has finally said "f-the deep ball", however. And lets not forget that Foles himself called Nagy out on the deep, long developing plays not working.

 

what if Nagys offense works w/o a lot of deep stuff? I guess we get 3 more games to find out. maybe

The deep stuff would have worked quite often with a competent QB throwing the ball. Foles had more of an issue trying to make slower developing plays behind a hodgepodge offensive line.

[minnesotacubsfan]

i'm not gonna dig up his air yards per attempt because that's way more effort than this subject deserves at this point, but i remember that being a common criticism of him from the analytic sites when things were going well in the past. lots of short passes inflating his completion percentages and not enough deep stuff.

 

yea, I seem to remember that too, and I thought it was that he was inaccurate on the long passes or making the wrong reads. It looks like Lazor has finally said "f-the deep ball", however. And lets not forget that Foles himself called Nagy out on the deep, long developing plays not working.

 

what if Nagys offense works w/o a lot of deep stuff? I guess we get 3 more games to find out. maybe

The deep stuff would have worked quite often with a competent QB throwing the ball. Foles had more of an issue trying to make slower developing plays behind a hodgepodge offensive line.

 

I'm not convinced that was Foles only issue, he himself isn't someone I would call a "competent QB".

[raw]

A good, short thread on Mitch the bumslayer.

 

Who is pushing back against the idea that Mitch has had some success against garbage teams?

 

The pushback was from people thinking Mitch turned a corner and learned by sitting or that Bill Lazor calling plays was all he needed to succeed.

[jersey cubs fan]

 

yea, I seem to remember that too, and I thought it was that he was inaccurate on the long passes or making the wrong reads. It looks like Lazor has finally said "f-the deep ball", however. And lets not forget that Foles himself called Nagy out on the deep, long developing plays not working.

 

what if Nagys offense works w/o a lot of deep stuff? I guess we get 3 more games to find out. maybe

The deep stuff would have worked quite often with a competent QB throwing the ball. Foles had more of an issue trying to make slower developing plays behind a hodgepodge offensive line.

 

I'm not convinced that was Foles only issue, he himself isn't someone I would call a "competent QB".

No it wasn't his only issue, I was referring to your comment about Foles calling out Nagy on deep stuff. Foles reacted negatively to Nagy taking his foot off the gas after a series of quick successful plays was stopped with a foolish Timout so they could be sure to make the exact right call on 1st down, as well as for calling plays that required a strong pass protection while nobody could block. Those are different from actually being against throwing deep passes. The deep ball has been open and lots of receivers have been missed by both Mitch and Nick.

[minnesotacubsfan]

The deep stuff would have worked quite often with a competent QB throwing the ball. Foles had more of an issue trying to make slower developing plays behind a hodgepodge offensive line.

 

I'm not convinced that was Foles only issue, he himself isn't someone I would call a "competent QB".

No it wasn't his only issue, I was referring to your comment about Foles calling out Nagy on deep stuff. Foles reacted negatively to Nagy taking his foot off the gas after a series of quick successful plays was stopped with a foolish Timout so they could be sure to make the exact right call on 1st down, as well as for calling plays that required a strong pass protection while nobody could block. Those are different from actually being against throwing deep passes. The deep ball has been open and lots of receivers have been missed by both Mitch and Nick.

 

yea, I dont want to make excuses for either QB and try and make the claim that they are really "Patrick Mahomes, repressed". I am curious if the coaching has turned a page, however, and somehow learned how to use the players with the limited skills that they have

[raw]

Louis Riddick interviewing with the Texans and Lions this week. While he may not be the only or even best GM option, worth noting that teams are getting started on this process while the Bears aren't because of their policy to not get rid of guys midseason.

[WrigleyField 22]

While Mitch is certainly not "Mahomes, repressed" I suppose the optimistic view is he could be Tannehill, repressed.

 

Do with you want of that take (not my own, but one I saw).

[WrigleyField 22]

Louis Riddick interviewing with the Texans and Lions this week. While he may not be the only or even best GM option, worth noting that teams are getting started on this process while the Bears aren't because of their policy to not get rid of guys midseason.

I'm not saying it's nothing, but it's also only because he isn't employed by another team right now. I'd imagine any team with a GM opening is still going to want to utilize the early January window to talk to currently employed guys.

 

Also the Bears might not be making a move at all, let alone mid-year.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I was out doing other things, then when I came back and saw the box score I was hopeful that Trubisky balled out. Then I saw the long-form highlights and it was all dinks and dunks with YAC. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but that's what he was doing.

[jersey cubs fan]

Louis Riddick interviewing with the Texans and Lions this week. While he may not be the only or even best GM option, worth noting that teams are getting started on this process while the Bears aren't because of their policy to not get rid of guys midseason.

But it could also be because of their decision to keep everybody around!

 

 

For the record, if they do bring in a legit president of football ops I have absolutely no problem with keeping Pace and Nagy this offseason.

[minnesotacubsfan]

While Mitch is certainly not "Mahomes, repressed" I suppose the optimistic view is he could be Tannehill, repressed.

 

Do with you want of that take (not my own, but one I saw).

 

The optimistic view is that they salvage a hotly debated draft pick and move on to building the rest of the team. If it ends up being Tannehill-level play it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

 

But if they somehow work themselves into the next Aaron Rodgers (via draft pick or FA), horsefeathers it go deep. I just don't know how you do that; (IE I don't know how you identify that superstar QB in the draft at least, FA is easier, a la Prescott).

Edited December 16, 2020 by minnesotacubsfan

[WrigleyField 22]

I was out doing other things, then when I came back and saw the box score I was hopeful that Trubisky balled out. Then I saw the long-form highlights and it was all dinks and dunks with YAC. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but that's what he was doing.

Even worse than I thought. Per Next Gen, 2.9 and 4.2 Average Completed Air Yards (CAY) and Average Intended Air Yards (IAY). Those are both very low.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Louis Riddick interviewing with the Texans and Lions this week. While he may not be the only or even best GM option, worth noting that teams are getting started on this process while the Bears aren't because of their policy to not get rid of guys midseason.

But it could also be because of their decision to keep everybody around!

 

 

For the record, if they do bring in a legit president of football ops I have absolutely no problem with keeping Pace and Nagy this offseason.

 

I could learn to live with it. I do kinda like Nagy, I'm intrigued by what a new football president might do. I really don't like Pace, but maybe he's learned something.

[WrigleyField 22]

Louis Riddick interviewing with the Texans and Lions this week. While he may not be the only or even best GM option, worth noting that teams are getting started on this process while the Bears aren't because of their policy to not get rid of guys midseason.

But it could also be because of their decision to keep everybody around!

 

 

For the record, if they do bring in a legit president of football ops I have absolutely no problem with keeping Pace and Nagy this offseason.

Pretty sure that's basically a made up position. A president of football ops is a Pace replacement/de facto GM.

[minnesotacubsfan]

I was out doing other things, then when I came back and saw the box score I was hopeful that Trubisky balled out. Then I saw the long-form highlights and it was all dinks and dunks with YAC. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but that's what he was doing.

 

it was very "west coast offense-ish", Bill Walsh version 2.0 I thought

[raw]

Louis Riddick interviewing with the Texans and Lions this week. While he may not be the only or even best GM option, worth noting that teams are getting started on this process while the Bears aren't because of their policy to not get rid of guys midseason.

But it could also be because of their decision to keep everybody around!

 

 

For the record, if they do bring in a legit president of football ops I have absolutely no problem with keeping Pace and Nagy this offseason.

 

I think I'm ok with it too. I really want Nagy gone. I understand if a new president wants to evaluate the guys for a year, but I think it's clear Nagy is NOT the guy. I see 0 chance he's coaching the team in 2022, so don't know why he'd be here in 2021. Pace I could see staying on longer if he hits on the next coach and QB and things are looking upward pretty quickly.

 

The key to me is not to have Pace in desperation mode. A team president should prevent big contracts with tons of dead money like he gave to Quinn, Graham and Foles. But at the same time, it probably wouldn't prevent a potentially bold move for a franchise QB.

[WrigleyField 22]

While Mitch is certainly not "Mahomes, repressed" I suppose the optimistic view is he could be Tannehill, repressed.

 

Do with you want of that take (not my own, but one I saw).

 

The optimistic view is that they salvage a hotly debated draft pick and move on to building the rest of the team. If it ends up being Tannehill-level play it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

 

But if they somehow work themselves into the next Aaron Rodgers (via draft pick or FA), horsefeathers it go deep. I just don't know how you do that; (IE I don't know how you identify that superstar QB in the draft at least, FA is easier, a la Prescott).

Tannehill level play is also largely predicated on having a Derrick Henry though right?

[jersey cubs fan]

Louis Riddick interviewing with the Texans and Lions this week. While he may not be the only or even best GM option, worth noting that teams are getting started on this process while the Bears aren't because of their policy to not get rid of guys midseason.

But it could also be because of their decision to keep everybody around!

 

 

For the record, if they do bring in a legit president of football ops I have absolutely no problem with keeping Pace and Nagy this offseason.

 

I think I'm ok with it too. I really want Nagy gone. I understand if a new president wants to evaluate the guys for a year, but I think it's clear Nagy is NOT the guy. I see 0 chance he's coaching the team in 2022, so don't know why he'd be here in 2021. Pace I could see staying on longer if he hits on the next coach and QB and things are looking upward pretty quickly.

 

The key to me is not to have Pace in desperation mode. A team president should prevent big contracts with tons of dead money like he gave to Quinn, Graham and Foles. But at the same time, it probably wouldn't prevent a potentially bold move for a franchise QB.

My thoughts on Nagy and Pace are complete opposites.

 

I hated what Nagy did with the kicker search. And his offense has been garbage most of the time. But I think he's been hamstrung by Pace's roster miscues. I could see Nagy learning from his mistakes and doing better down the road, whereas I think Pace is what he is.

[minnesotacubsfan]

While Mitch is certainly not "Mahomes, repressed" I suppose the optimistic view is he could be Tannehill, repressed.

 

Do with you want of that take (not my own, but one I saw).

 

The optimistic view is that they salvage a hotly debated draft pick and move on to building the rest of the team. If it ends up being Tannehill-level play it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

 

But if they somehow work themselves into the next Aaron Rodgers (via draft pick or FA), horsefeathers it go deep. I just don't know how you do that; (IE I don't know how you identify that superstar QB in the draft at least, FA is easier, a la Prescott).

Tannehill level play is also largely predicated on having a Derrick Henry though right?

 

I'd take Tannehill ca. Dolphins at this point. he was an average/above average QB, and even that is something this team struggles to attain.