Jordan/Bulls Doc Release Pushed Up To April 19th

[Derwood]

Were any of those things untrue, though?

[stitchface]

Word is Scottie is pretty upset about how he was portrayed. I tend to side with him.

 

1. Berating Jerry Krause on the team bus. Was portrayed as him being way out of line, yet Jordan spends the whole special making fat and short jokes about Krause.

2. Didn't want to F up his summer, so waited to have surgery because he was mad about being underpaid. Jordan points out that he was underpaid for years too, though made tons of money off of endorsements.

3. Sitting out the last second because shot went to Kukoc instead of him. Was a Jordan and 1998 Bulls doc, but this incident happened in 94-95 when Jordan wasn't on the team so wasn't really relevant.

4. Scottie has a game 7 migraine. Jordan played in the "flu game".

5. Scottie has a bad back in last game. Jordan had to play extra minutes and score 40+ after playing every game to keep the team afloat with Scottie having in-season surgery.

 

I don't know that Jordan intentionally tried to make Scottie look bad, but moreso tried to make himself look good. Even with his bullying coming to light, Jordan was in tears explaining why that made him great and a winner. I don't know if it was in response to LeBron fans when confronted with "he had to run to another superstar to get a ring" who point out Jordan didn't win without Pippen (Jordan showing Pippen fell apart without him, and wasn't built the same to fight thru adversity). Or if it was to show why he's the GOAT and the only other superstar he had footage/inside knowledge of was Scottie. But it all seemed pretty shady to me.

 

this seems like a reach to me. Jordan doesn't look good to me in the series - just was who he is. I don't buy the conspiracy around it.

 

1. I thought both were portrayed as out of line but frankly, Krause is the villain.

2. Fair assessment of Pippen

3. Fair assessment of Pippen

4. Who knows? I think Jordan comes off looking like an ahole for doubting Pippen actually was sick

5. This is what happened.

 

Where's the controversy? I think Grant makes himself look really stupid by complaining about it - Scottie is smart not to say anything. My takeaway from the series is Jordan was an ahole and the best player ever.

[raw]

The point wasn't that it was untrue. Just that a lot of it didn't really seem necessary. I actually think it was a very mediocre documentary in all honesty. Supposed to be a 1998 documentary, but there was very little 1998 footage and it was kind of the footnote to basically was a Jordan career doc. Point out Scottie berating Krause, but no actual footage of it. Point out Scottie sitting out in an irrelevant season. Point out Scottie couldn't play thru certain things while pointing out Jordan could. It just felt like Jordan had a chance to explain his way out of things, while Scottie had no say (granted, he did say he wouldn't change anything that's not really an explanation just a statement). Not really trying to start a conspiracy theory, just that I see why Scottie is reportedly, upset.

[stitchface]

The point wasn't that it was untrue. Just that a lot of it didn't really seem necessary. I actually think it was a very mediocre documentary in all honesty. Supposed to be a 1998 documentary, but there was very little 1998 footage and it was kind of the footnote to basically was a Jordan career doc. Point out Scottie berating Krause, but no actual footage of it. Point out Scottie sitting out in an irrelevant season. Point out Scottie couldn't play thru certain things while pointing out Jordan could. It just felt like Jordan had a chance to explain his way out of things, while Scottie had no say (granted, he did say he wouldn't change anything that's not really an explanation just a statement). Not really trying to start a conspiracy theory, just that I see why Scottie is reportedly, upset.

 

fair enough. I guess I just don't think the doc made Jordan look good as a person. as a player, yea, but that was probably more reminder than anything.

 

There have been a ton of positive articles about Pippen at least. For me, he was the best defensive player I ever saw (granted I stopped watching after 1998). I remember that if Pippen was hitting from outside, the bulls were unstoppable. I enjoyed the documentary but I can see your point about it not being great or documenting 1998.

 

btw, found this old photo from Arizona . . . trying to remember what year that was.

[Derwood]

It definitely wasn’t glorifying Jordan.

[cl smooth]

The point wasn't that it was untrue. Just that a lot of it didn't really seem necessary. I actually think it was a very mediocre documentary in all honesty. Supposed to be a 1998 documentary, but there was very little 1998 footage and it was kind of the footnote to basically was a Jordan career doc. Point out Scottie berating Krause, but no actual footage of it. Point out Scottie sitting out in an irrelevant season. Point out Scottie couldn't play thru certain things while pointing out Jordan could. It just felt like Jordan had a chance to explain his way out of things, while Scottie had no say (granted, he did say he wouldn't change anything that's not really an explanation just a statement). Not really trying to start a conspiracy theory, just that I see why Scottie is reportedly, upset.

 

after digesting all 10 episodes, i wouldn't even call it a documentary. it was 10 hours of horsefeathering awesome stories but when the main subject of your story has final cut, it leaned more towards propaganda than actual think-piece. that's not a knock towards the last dance but it is what it is.

 

horace grant had some choice words, as well:

 

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29195428/horace-grant-says-michael-jordan-lied-last-dance-calls-snitch

 

"When that so-called documentary is about one person, basically, and he has the last word on what's going to be put out there ... it's not a documentary," Grant said. "It's his narrative of what happens in the last, quote-unquote, dance. That's not a documentary, because a whole bunch of things was cut out, edited out. So that's why I call it a so-called documentary."

[SouthSideRyan]

It definitely wasn’t glorifying Jordan.

 

lol

[NOLA]

The point wasn't that it was untrue. Just that a lot of it didn't really seem necessary. I actually think it was a very mediocre documentary in all honesty. Supposed to be a 1998 documentary, but there was very little 1998 footage and it was kind of the footnote to basically was a Jordan career doc. Point out Scottie berating Krause, but no actual footage of it. Point out Scottie sitting out in an irrelevant season. Point out Scottie couldn't play thru certain things while pointing out Jordan could. It just felt like Jordan had a chance to explain his way out of things, while Scottie had no say (granted, he did say he wouldn't change anything that's not really an explanation just a statement). Not really trying to start a conspiracy theory, just that I see why Scottie is reportedly, upset.

But it’s not like those things are inconsequential to the Bulls’ run. It would have been weird if they weren’t discussed, and Scottie had opportunities to speak on each issue. Scottie was my one of my favorite players in the league, but it’s hard to explain your way out of sitting down the end of that playoff game. To his credit, he owned it.

[UMFan83]

It definitely wasn’t glorifying Jordan.

 

lol

 

It wasn’t a complete puff piece but clearly anything negative about Jordan had to be approved by MJ himself so any critical stuff was tempered. Before eps 7 and 8, there were remarks like “wow I can’t believe Jordan approved this footage” but in the actual episode the negative stuff honestly was spun in a semi-positive light. For example, they would show footage of MJ being an ass, and then immediately afterwards they show a couple of his teammates saying things like “yeah he was an horsefeathers, but in retrospect it worked”

 

The doc was fine, and there was a lot of nostalgia for me. I don’t think there was anything especially revelatory in it for Bulls fans who lived that era, but for younger fans and fans of other teams it really gave some depth to those teams that might have been lost over the years. And because of Coronavirus, this became a cultural event that everyone watched which might rebuild a small amount of mystique for the Bulls franchise that has been lost over years of mediocrity.

 

And the biggest winner is of course Jordan. Millions who never watched him play know of him the same way I did someone like Kareem. It definitely improved his standing in the GOAT argument.

[Old Style]

The point wasn't that it was untrue. Just that a lot of it didn't really seem necessary. I actually think it was a very mediocre documentary in all honesty. Supposed to be a 1998 documentary, but there was very little 1998 footage and it was kind of the footnote to basically was a Jordan career doc. Point out Scottie berating Krause, but no actual footage of it. Point out Scottie sitting out in an irrelevant season. Point out Scottie couldn't play thru certain things while pointing out Jordan could. It just felt like Jordan had a chance to explain his way out of things, while Scottie had no say (granted, he did say he wouldn't change anything that's not really an explanation just a statement). Not really trying to start a conspiracy theory, just that I see why Scottie is reportedly, upset.

They talked about Scottie gutting out the back injury in Game 6 of the 98 Finals. Plenty of people interviewed raved about Pip, including MJ. Didn’t he say without Pippen there wouldn’t be the 6 championships? The only thing to me that really made Scottie look bad was him saying that he wouldn’t change anything about sitting out that last play when Kukoc nailed the game winner. But that’s his own fault for making himself look bad right after it was explained how he immediately apologized to the team after the game and was still respected in the locker room.

[17 Seconds]

it was a 10 hour suckfest of michael. i don't know how anyone can deny that. but that's okay. they never really marketed it as some cutting documentary about the morality of being a bad person to win. the 90s bulls were an awesome thing that a lot of people remember fondly, and it was fun watching it all play out with triumphant music playing in the background, especially during a time when we have no other sports to watch.

[Derwood]

it was a 10 hour suckfest of michael. i don't know how anyone can deny that. but that's okay. they never really marketed it as some cutting documentary about the morality of being a bad person to win. the 90s bulls were an awesome thing that a lot of people remember fondly, and it was fun watching it all play out with triumphant music playing in the background, especially during a time when we have no other sports to watch.

 

It was both a "Jordan is the GOAT!!!" piece AND a "did you know what a giant dick Jordan was???" at the same time

[17 Seconds]

it was a 10 hour suckfest of michael. i don't know how anyone can deny that. but that's okay. they never really marketed it as some cutting documentary about the morality of being a bad person to win. the 90s bulls were an awesome thing that a lot of people remember fondly, and it was fun watching it all play out with triumphant music playing in the background, especially during a time when we have no other sports to watch.

 

It was both a "Jordan is the GOAT!!!" piece AND a "did you know what a giant dick Jordan was???" at the same time

 

not really. the stuff in there that made him look dickish was mild and likely undersold how bad it really was. plus it was always followed by him doing something awesome on the court to immediately make it seem justified.

 

they put the bare minimum of negative stuff in there. just enough to be able to say they covered it all

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Non-Bulls fan here- so let me give my take.

 

First, I really enjoyed the documentary, though the Rodman stuff was my favorite. I would like to see a 10 hour documentary of the Dennis Rodman story...but I digress.

 

It definitely seemed that it was a Michael Jordan documentary using the framework of the last season as its lens. You could definitely tell that its point of view was complementary of Jordan. Any negative trait was presented in a way of that is what champions do.

 

Did I have a problem with that? Nope. I thought it was well done.

 

Could it have dug deeper into Jordan or helped elevate the accomplishments of the supporting cast? Sure, but for what it was, it was entertaining and enjoyable.

 

Not a Bulls fan, but still Jordan is the best to ever play the game.

[SouthSideRyan]

There’s a really good Rodman 30 for 30 I caught a few weeks back. Not sure if it’s on demand for ESPN or you’ll need to subscribe to ESPN+

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

There’s a really good Rodman 30 for 30 I caught a few weeks back. Not sure if it’s on demand for ESPN or you’ll need to subscribe to ESPN+

 

Yeah, I've seen the Rodman 30 for 30...but I could even go for more.

 

There's a podcast somewhere with one of the Dallas sports guys who goes into detail about Rodman's 30 or so days with the Mavs. It's a great listen if you can find it.

[17 Seconds]

I just realized they didnt show rodman kicking the photographer. that was a big story at the time.

[WrigleyField 22]

I just realized they didnt show rodman kicking the photographer. that was a big story at the time.

I thought they showed it really briefly but didn't really go into the specifics and actually talk about it.

[Brian]

I just realized they didnt show rodman kicking the photographer. that was a big story at the time.

I thought they showed it really briefly but didn't really go into the specifics and actually talk about it.

 

That's what I was thinking, I clearly remember them showing him doing something, an announcer saying something along the lines of "Dennis is going to be gone for a while." and then him walking off the court. It may have been something with a player though.

[Banedon]

I loved the doc, but it was absolutely a near deification of Jordan. Sure it pointed out his flaws (he's an horsefeathers), but made the point that those flaws all were in the service of winning (It was just tough love)!

[WrigleyField 22]

I just realized they didnt show rodman kicking the photographer. that was a big story at the time.

I thought they showed it really briefly but didn't really go into the specifics and actually talk about it.

 

That's what I was thinking, I clearly remember them showing him doing something, an announcer saying something along the lines of "Dennis is going to be gone for a while." and then him walking off the court. It may have been something with a player though.

What's kind of wild is that in my head I was thinking the ref headbutt in 96 was a bigger deal at the time, but he got 6 games for that verse 11 games for the camera man incident. In today's age, is a guy getting any less than 20-25 games for conduct like that?

[Regular Show]

I hope this doesn't affect their relationship too significantly...

 

Charles Barkley and MJ still aren't talking after a remark from a few years back.

 

I think Scottie was portrayed in a bad light and the youngest generation (Gen Z) now has an incorrect perception of him. Scottie was a great teammate and a selfless player, and had legitimate gripes about his contract. The doc definitely made him look bad.

[WrigleyField 22]

Could have been worse, they didn't even go into "No Tippin Pippen"

[cl smooth]

wish they would've gone into detail about jordan's fadeaway during the second three-peat.

 

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29035071/why-michael-jordan-scoring-prowess-touched

[Soul]

I think Scottie was portrayed in a bad light and the youngest generation (Gen Z) now has an incorrect perception of him. Scottie was a great teammate and a selfless player, and had legitimate gripes about his contract. The doc definitely made him look bad.

It was clear to me from the coverage that Pip was criminally underpaid. I didn’t see any disagreement on the show, other than people saying the thought he was making a mistake signing his original contract for 7 years.