Jordan/Bulls Doc Release Pushed Up To April 19th

[Derwood]

Anyone honestly believe MJ when he says Pip would come back for 1 year if everyone else was? I honestly think there is no way he is coming back, even if it was like a 1 year $25m contract. That would ultimately cost him money long term as he’d be a year older looking for his long term payday. If it’s a long term deal like what he got in the S&T with Houston, I don’t see him coming back to a team he had been publicly asking to he traded from for at least 4 years knowing that they will likely be rebuilding after year 1.

 

The only way any of this happens is if Krause was fired. Maybe then Pippen could be convinced to come back. I mean he did in fact come back once Krause was fired in 2003.

 

It doesn't matter, because Phil wouldn't come back, and Jordan (claimed) he'd never play for anyone but Phil (until he played for the Wizards, but let's forget that every happened)

[UMFan83]

Anyone honestly believe MJ when he says Pip would come back for 1 year if everyone else was? I honestly think there is no way he is coming back, even if it was like a 1 year $25m contract. That would ultimately cost him money long term as he’d be a year older looking for his long term payday. If it’s a long term deal like what he got in the S&T with Houston, I don’t see him coming back to a team he had been publicly asking to he traded from for at least 4 years knowing that they will likely be rebuilding after year 1.

 

The only way any of this happens is if Krause was fired. Maybe then Pippen could be convinced to come back. I mean he did in fact come back once Krause was fired in 2003.

 

It doesn't matter, because Phil wouldn't come back, and Jordan (claimed) he'd never play for anyone but Phil (until he played for the Wizards, but let's forget that every happened)

 

Right, I'm more referring to what MJ said at the end when he said everyone would have come back including Phil and Scottie if Reinsdorf asked

[Derwood]

Anyone honestly believe MJ when he says Pip would come back for 1 year if everyone else was? I honestly think there is no way he is coming back, even if it was like a 1 year $25m contract. That would ultimately cost him money long term as he’d be a year older looking for his long term payday. If it’s a long term deal like what he got in the S&T with Houston, I don’t see him coming back to a team he had been publicly asking to he traded from for at least 4 years knowing that they will likely be rebuilding after year 1.

 

The only way any of this happens is if Krause was fired. Maybe then Pippen could be convinced to come back. I mean he did in fact come back once Krause was fired in 2003.

 

It doesn't matter, because Phil wouldn't come back, and Jordan (claimed) he'd never play for anyone but Phil (until he played for the Wizards, but let's forget that every happened)

 

Right, I'm more referring to what MJ said at the end when he said everyone would have come back including Phil and Scottie if Reinsdorf asked

 

And what I'm saying is that Jordan can say that, but I don't see any way Phil would have gone back with Krause for another year, even if everyone else came back

[Sammy Sofa]

Kenny Lattimore?

 

Jordan is such a horsefeathering dork. Love it.

[17 Seconds]

it's funny how they spent all that time on kerr, but still kind of undersold his game a little bit. he wasn't a complete scrub like rudy or something, he had a truly elite skill. he shot .454 career from three. like yeah he was a role player, but they didn't even mention how lights out he was as a shooter.

[JudasIscariotTheBird]

it's funny how they spent all that time on kerr, but still kind of undersold his game a little bit. he wasn't a complete scrub like rudy or something, he had a truly elite skill. he shot .454 career from three. like yeah he was a role player, but they didn't even mention how lights out he was as a shooter.

I was thinking that the entire episode. Now, maybe his three percentage (best career percentage of ALL TIME) was super amazeballs because Jordan and Pippen spread defenses so thin, but his shooting stats can only lie so much. He was one of the best ever.

[Sammy Sofa]

it's funny how they spent all that time on kerr, but still kind of undersold his game a little bit. he wasn't a complete scrub like rudy or something, he had a truly elite skill. he shot .454 career from three. like yeah he was a role player, but they didn't even mention how lights out he was as a shooter.

I was thinking that the entire episode. Now, maybe his three percentage (best career percentage of ALL TIME) was super amazeballs because Jordan and Pippen spread defenses so thin, but his shooting stats can only lie so much. He was one of the best ever.

 

Given that outside of (most) of his years with Chicago the dude's overall value was pretty meh, that bold part does seem pretty key.

[WrigleyField 22]

it's funny how they spent all that time on kerr, but still kind of undersold his game a little bit. he wasn't a complete scrub like rudy or something, he had a truly elite skill. he shot .454 career from three. like yeah he was a role player, but they didn't even mention how lights out he was as a shooter.

Even though he never started a game I think he was arguably 5th most important player on that second three peat.

[Regular Show]

[Derwood]

Jerry Krause is a giant ass face, but its a shame he didn't live long enough to contribute to this doc

[Regular Show]

Jerry Krause is a giant ass face, but its a shame he didn't live long enough to contribute to this doc

 

I actually prefer it this way. I wouldn't want to hear from him...

 

Steve Kerr on the other hand. Yeah, I wish they featured him way more.

[Derwood]

Jerry Krause is a giant ass face, but its a shame he didn't live long enough to contribute to this doc

 

I actually prefer it this way. I wouldn't want to hear from him...

 

Steve Kerr on the other hand. Yeah, I wish they featured him way more.

 

It would have been worth it just to see Jordan watching Krause on the the director's tablet and laughing and laughing and laughing....

[Sammy Sofa]

I'm kinda surprised at everyone acting like Kerr didn't get a ton of time. I'd swear he's the Bull besides Jordan who showed up as a talking head the most.

[WrigleyField 22]

I'm kinda surprised at everyone acting like Kerr didn't get a ton of time. I'd swear he's the Bull besides Jordan who showed up as a talking head the most.

He got lots of interviews, but they didn't spend a ton of time on his game, I think was Regular Show's point.

 

Makes sense that he got a lot of air time though. Scottie is kind of dull to listen to. Rodman was probably hell to get to focus. Harper and Kukoc are fine to listen to, but Kerr is definitely a good interview. They didn't even include Longley.

 

Did Randy Brown also not get air time? He was at least as important as Wenington and Bucheler.

[JudasIscariotTheBird]

it's funny how they spent all that time on kerr, but still kind of undersold his game a little bit. he wasn't a complete scrub like rudy or something, he had a truly elite skill. he shot .454 career from three. like yeah he was a role player, but they didn't even mention how lights out he was as a shooter.

I was thinking that the entire episode. Now, maybe his three percentage (best career percentage of ALL TIME) was super amazeballs because Jordan and Pippen spread defenses so thin, but his shooting stats can only lie so much. He was one of the best ever.

 

Given that outside of (most) of his years with Chicago the dude's overall value was pretty meh, that bold part does seem pretty key.

The prime of his career was all with the Bulls, his season without Jordan in Chicago was still bonkers, and he had a +.500 3% elsewhere. He was a really, really good long distance shooter.

[David]

those couple years when they shortened the three point line must've felt like free throws to him

[ConstableRabbit]

it's funny how they spent all that time on kerr, but still kind of undersold his game a little bit. he wasn't a complete scrub like rudy or something, he had a truly elite skill. he shot .454 career from three. like yeah he was a role player, but they didn't even mention how lights out he was as a shooter.

Even though he never started a game I think he was arguably 5th most important player on that second three peat.

Assuming you have Toni at 4?

[stitchface]

I'm kinda surprised at everyone acting like Kerr didn't get a ton of time. I'd swear he's the Bull besides Jordan who showed up as a talking head the most.

He got lots of interviews, but they didn't spend a ton of time on his game, I think was Regular Show's point.

 

Makes sense that he got a lot of air time though. Scottie is kind of dull to listen to. Rodman was probably hell to get to focus. Harper and Kukoc are fine to listen to, but Kerr is definitely a good interview. They didn't even include Longley.

 

Did Randy Brown also not get air time? He was at least as important as Wenington and Bucheler.

 

 

Stacy King?

[Regular Show]

I'm kinda surprised at everyone acting like Kerr didn't get a ton of time. I'd swear he's the Bull besides Jordan who showed up as a talking head the most.

He got lots of interviews, but they didn't spend a ton of time on his game, I think was Regular Show's point.

 

Makes sense that he got a lot of air time though. Scottie is kind of dull to listen to. Rodman was probably hell to get to focus. Harper and Kukoc are fine to listen to, but Kerr is definitely a good interview. They didn't even include Longley...

 

Yeah, I don't think they mentioned how incredible a shooter Kerr was in the doc? He was a key role player on the team, and I didn't fully appreciate him until I got older.

 

I really wanted more Kukoc and Kerr. Also, they weren't going to travel to Australia to interview Luc Longley (that's why he isn't featured in the doc). They had to travel all the way to Montana to interview Phil Jackson lol. Kerr is really articulate and always gives great interviews. He understands the game and team dynamics really well and gives thoughtful answers.

 

The question about whether they discussed what happened to their fathers never even registered with me until this doc.

[SpongeWorthy]

Wright Thompson (the best sportswriter in the world) goes super long on MJ: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29180890/michael-jordan-history-flight

[WrigleyField 22]

it's funny how they spent all that time on kerr, but still kind of undersold his game a little bit. he wasn't a complete scrub like rudy or something, he had a truly elite skill. he shot .454 career from three. like yeah he was a role player, but they didn't even mention how lights out he was as a shooter.

Even though he never started a game I think he was arguably 5th most important player on that second three peat.

Assuming you have Toni at 4?

Yea. With Kerr it's just that recognition though that him and Harper were splitting minutes even though at the time, it was just "Harper is the starter". And as good as Harper filled the role that was asked of him, his role was probably easier filled than Kerry's since Kerr was so elite at what he did. Obviously there was a lot of O/D switching with those 2 in tight games, but being trusted like in 97 speaks volumes to his role with the team.

Edited May 19, 2020 by WrigleyField 22

[WrigleyField 22]

I'm kinda surprised at everyone acting like Kerr didn't get a ton of time. I'd swear he's the Bull besides Jordan who showed up as a talking head the most.

He got lots of interviews, but they didn't spend a ton of time on his game, I think was Regular Show's point.

 

Makes sense that he got a lot of air time though. Scottie is kind of dull to listen to. Rodman was probably hell to get to focus. Harper and Kukoc are fine to listen to, but Kerr is definitely a good interview. They didn't even include Longley...

 

Yeah, I don't think they mentioned how incredible a shooter Kerr was in the doc? He was a key role player on the team, and I didn't fully appreciate him until I got older.

 

I really wanted more Kukoc and Kerr. Also, they weren't going to travel to Australia to interview Luc Longley (that's why he isn't featured in the doc). They had to travel all the way to Montana to interview Phil Jackson lol. Kerr is really articulate and always gives great interviews. He understands the game and team dynamics really well and gives thoughtful answers.

 

The question about whether they discussed what happened to their fathers never even registered with me until this doc.

Yea they didn't cover in the same way that they did like with say, Rodman and rebounding. It was more alluded to it that flat out praise his contributions as a sharp shooter.

 

If I was some 20 year old watching it, I might think "oh he that one shot, but they must be interviewing him so much cuz he's one of the biggest coaches in the sport now"

[WrigleyField 22]

Anyone honestly believe MJ when he says Pip would come back for 1 year if everyone else was? I honestly think there is no way he is coming back, even if it was like a 1 year $25m contract. That would ultimately cost him money long term as he’d be a year older looking for his long term payday. If it’s a long term deal like what he got in the S&T with Houston, I don’t see him coming back to a team he had been publicly asking to he traded from for at least 4 years knowing that they will likely be rebuilding after year 1.

 

The only way any of this happens is if Krause was fired. Maybe then Pippen could be convinced to come back. I mean he did in fact come back once Krause was fired in 2003.

Yea that's one area where I'm not believing it just cuz Michael said so. I think most importantly Jackson was going to be done. But I also can't imagine guys like Kerr, Longley, etc not also wanting that payday, and definitely Pip would have wanted his pay day, so I don't think it'd have been everyone back on 1 year deals. Most those guys got 50% of their entire career earnings in those post 5 championship years. I think it would have been the Bulls maxing out their cap for 3-5 seasons or so on a primarily mid to late 30s roster.

 

That said, thats with a frame of reference of Krause having already introduced so much friction between management and the players/coaches. If he's more low key to the few years leading up to it, maybe everyone is all on board after 98. And even if Jackson still is insistent on leaving because of his "7 year rule" maybe in that case MJ agrees to stay if it's someone favorable from the existing staff. Or if Jackson leaves, perhaps Michael follows suit, even if the rest of the core is there.

 

Came across a good article that talked about what that cap hit would have actually been:

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/why-keeping-michael-jordans-bulls-together-for-run-at-seventh-title-would-have-been-a-very-costly-mistake/

 

Obviously 99-03 ended up being dog horsefeathers anyways, but under that scenario they'd have locked themselves into a painful slow decline those 5 years.

[Andy]

i completely forgot about ho grant being hoisted up after beating the bulls. 11 year old me was irate

 

that was my first year watching sports (pretty much spurred by the jordan comeback) and i was so horsefeathering mad about that. between the nick anderson play and then that, i HATED the magic as much as I've hated any of my teams' rivals since.

 

i imagine the satisfaction i felt at that sweep the next year is the closest thing I have to what people felt about beating detroit in 91.

I'm late to this because I was waiting until I saw the episodes to read this thread, but I remember being absolutely irate, like in tears irate, at the end of Game 1 of that series (I was 8), to the degree my own parents were angry at my temper tantrum. And I completely agree about the following year's sweep.

[raw]

Word is Scottie is pretty upset about how he was portrayed. I tend to side with him.

 

1. Berating Jerry Krause on the team bus. Was portrayed as him being way out of line, yet Jordan spends the whole special making fat and short jokes about Krause.

2. Didn't want to F up his summer, so waited to have surgery because he was mad about being underpaid. Jordan points out that he was underpaid for years too, though made tons of money off of endorsements.

3. Sitting out the last second because shot went to Kukoc instead of him. Was a Jordan and 1998 Bulls doc, but this incident happened in 94-95 when Jordan wasn't on the team so wasn't really relevant.

4. Scottie has a game 7 migraine. Jordan played in the "flu game".

5. Scottie has a bad back in last game. Jordan had to play extra minutes and score 40+ after playing every game to keep the team afloat with Scottie having in-season surgery.

 

I don't know that Jordan intentionally tried to make Scottie look bad, but moreso tried to make himself look good. Even with his bullying coming to light, Jordan was in tears explaining why that made him great and a winner. I don't know if it was in response to LeBron fans when confronted with "he had to run to another superstar to get a ring" who point out Jordan didn't win without Pippen (Jordan showing Pippen fell apart without him, and wasn't built the same to fight thru adversity). Or if it was to show why he's the GOAT and the only other superstar he had footage/inside knowledge of was Scottie. But it all seemed pretty shady to me.