Jordan/Bulls Doc Release Pushed Up To April 19th

[NonProfitCow]

After watching the first two episodes I’m bummed there are only 8 more. Can we get a 25 episode Director’s Cut please??????

 

I want footage of Scottie berating Krause on the team bus. And I know it's there because there was bus footage.

Yeah, for pro athletes to be wincing at how brutal it was is something.

[WrigleyField 22]

 

Honestly, the dynasty was probably close to being done anyway. Like was said, that Pacers series was brutal. The Jazz were right there most of the games and were kind of a tough matchup.

 

That being said, I would have loved to seen them let Phil go and let the rest of the team make a run just to see how it ended. Scottie's contract made that tough, but if Jordan was there I think he would have been. The strike shortened season is whatever. The Knicks team that won the East as an 8 seed was the same the Bulls used to beat up on. Them against the twin towers of the Spurs would have been interesting. But I would love to have seen the Bulls, slightly retooled with role players vs. Phil Jackson and the 99-00 Lakers. Jordan and Pippen in the twilight against a prime Shaq and young Kobe, with Phil as the coach.

 

If not for Jordan getting his dad killed and Krause's ego, the Bulls could have legitimately threatened the Celtics 11 rings in 13 years with 11 straight.

Watching Pippen and Jordan age would have been one thing. Watching an aging MJ with a young McGrady would have been pretty interesting as well though. But Phil would have probably bailed and if MJ was serious about not playing for anyone, but Phil, that wasn't gonna happen either.

 

So the hypothetical becomes if you would possibly trade the 6th championship for building around McGrady in 97/98 if that trade happens.

 

the answer to this is not yes

If I was 100% sure it meant the end of Jordan, obviously no. I'm sure Krause thought he could get MJ to stay at the end of the day even without Pip, so I do get it.

 

Again though, grinding the axe with Phil and drawing that line was needlessly dumb and purely ego. Trading away aging Pippen, way less so.

[Gmoney08]

 

that's what i was thinking last night. It's just unfathomable how this went down. If horsefeathering fat horsefeathers jerry krause is saying hey guys this winning championships thing is great but what about drafting eddy curry instead, don't you just say get the horsefeathers out of here, idiot. I mean you already have michael and scottie, someone else can't sign bill wennington and steve kerr?

Well Krause did go get Scottie too. And Grant during the first 3 peat.

 

Not sure everyone appreciated a sharpshooting specialist like Kerr as much as he would obviously be highly valued today. Krause had his share of clunkers, but he did do a nice job building around Michael.

 

I don't know if he was necessarily wrong to want to want to get out of the downside of an aging Pippen. The Jackson tension was a little different obviously and more egregiously his ego getting in the way it seems. If he threads the needle though, MJ could have carried a good team into his late 30s while you rebuilt around him on the fly. As it was he basically lost that battle in 97 and JR forced all the chips go in for 98, then Krause just got to do his rebuild with whatever he could get out of Kukoc, Kerr, Longley, etc and the rest walking. But there were a lot of other forces aiming towards that breakup, Krause just wanted to light a match on that kindling asap.

 

Honestly, the dynasty was probably close to being done anyway. Like was said, that Pacers series was brutal. The Jazz were right there most of the games and were kind of a tough matchup.

 

That being said, I would have loved to seen them let Phil go and let the rest of the team make a run just to see how it ended. Scottie's contract made that tough, but if Jordan was there I think he would have been. The strike shortened season is whatever. The Knicks team that won the East as an 8 seed was the same the Bulls used to beat up on. Them against the twin towers of the Spurs would have been interesting. But I would love to have seen the Bulls, slightly retooled with role players vs. Phil Jackson and the 99-00 Lakers. Jordan and Pippen in the twilight against a prime Shaq and young Kobe, with Phil as the coach.

 

If not for Jordan getting his dad killed and Krause's ego, the Bulls could have legitimately threatened the Celtics 11 rings in 13 years with 11 straight.

 

MJ did not get his father killed. Such a stupid rumor, even worse and more toxic then the NBA secretly suspended him rumor.

[Regular Show]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/frankpallotta/status/1252358641002229765[/tweet]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/frankpallotta/status/1252336768285843457[/tweet]

[Andy]

After watching the first two episodes I’m bummed there are only 8 more. Can we get a 25 episode Director’s Cut please??????

 

I want footage of Scottie berating Krause on the team bus. And I know it's there because there was bus footage.

Yeah, for pro athletes to be wincing at how brutal it was is something.

I get the impression the documentary guys wanted me to feel bad for Krause, and I about 60% did. The guy was a really good GM when it came to the raw deal-making. Hell, if it weren't for the collateral damage of alienating MJ, pretty much every rumored trade he had on the table for Pippen would've been good moves. But he was just too big of a [expletive] personally, and I'd love to find out what it was about Phil specifically that pissed him off so much.

[WrigleyField 22]

 

I want footage of Scottie berating Krause on the team bus. And I know it's there because there was bus footage.

Yeah, for pro athletes to be wincing at how brutal it was is something.

I get the impression the documentary guys wanted me to feel bad for Krause, and I about 60% did. The guy was a really good GM when it came to the raw deal-making. Hell, if it weren't for the collateral damage of alienating MJ, pretty much every rumored trade he had on the table for Pippen would've been good moves. But he was just too big of a [expletive] personally, and I'd love to find out what it was about Phil specifically that pissed him off so much.

That Phil got credit. He was the Zen Master. And Krause felt "I plucked this guy from nowhere. I'll find the next Phil. His name is Tim Floyd" (lol)

 

I mean generally speaking coaches and GMs eventually clashing is a tale as old as time in sports.

[PosterToBeNamedLater]

Yeah, for pro athletes to be wincing at how brutal it was is something.

I get the impression the documentary guys wanted me to feel bad for Krause, and I about 60% did. The guy was a really good GM when it came to the raw deal-making. Hell, if it weren't for the collateral damage of alienating MJ, pretty much every rumored trade he had on the table for Pippen would've been good moves. But he was just too big of a [expletive] personally, and I'd love to find out what it was about Phil specifically that pissed him off so much.

That Phil got credit. He was the Zen Master. And Krause felt "I plucked this guy from nowhere. I'll find the next Phil. His name is Tim Floyd" (lol)

 

I mean generally speaking coaches and GMs eventually clashing is a tale as old as time in sports.

Yeah, a few months ago I read Playing for Keeps by David Halberstam (a book just like The Last Dance in that he follows the team for the 97-98 season but it also constantly switches back and forth between chapters on that season and the backstory of the people involved). It talks about how Krause was bitter that he didn't get enough credit and that Jackson and the players were getting all of it. He also blamed Jackson for not standing up for him when there was tensions with the players -- that Jackson owed him because Krause brought him in. Jackson (and Doug Collins before him) thought that Krause was constantly putting himself in places he shouldn't be. Krause frequently showed up at practice and gave input -- Collins at points would yell "why are you here?" He also would ride on the player/coach bus despite the fact that there was a second bus for the staff... It's like he needed to create drama or constantly need to know what people said about him or something. Both Jackson and Collins asked him to keep out of the player's space but Krause would tell them he was free to be wherever he wanted.

 

Krause also was pissed when The Jordan Rules book came out. He already was annoyed he wasn't getting the credit he thought he deserved and then that book gave the information that there were tensions with the players and that they would mock him. He apparently would go around to everyone in the organization and complain about the book with underlined passages he said were lies. He would quote the passages about himself and make the staff confirm to him that it wasn't true. He once made Jackson come to his room and went through each thing he thought was a lie one by one until Jackson told him to let it go. Krause then wanted Jackson to fire Johnny Bach because he thought Bach was the source of the info in the book (and he didn't like that Bach got along really well with everyone including the players and the press... getting along so well with the press was why he thought Bach was the source for the book) -- Jackson didn't want to.

 

Also some other side notes about Krause:

 

On the drafting of Horace Grant:

 

Apparently it was Johnny Bach who came up with the idea of drafting Grant. He was watching film on Joe Wolf (who Krause wanted to draft--Jordan apparently wanted Wolf, too, because he was a Tar Heel... I am not sure if that is the reason Krause wanted to draft him or not). Bach didn't like the way Wolf moved... thought he would be too slow, have back problems. One of the games he watched was against Clemson and he noticed Grant. He liked how quick he was and thought he would fit in with what they wanted to do. He brought it up to the other coaches and all of them agreed on Grant. As the draft came, Krause was wavering back toward wanting to take Wolf. Tex Winter (who was apparently the one guy who got along with him enough to talk to him about stuff like this) said, "Jerry, the whole coaching staff is sold on Grant...We are unanimous. How can you still go with Wolf?" I think Reinsdorf stepped in and made Krause go with Grant.

 

 

On Krause's need for credit:

 

Krause used to constantly brag about how when he was a scout with the bullets, he was the one who discovered and drafted Earl Monroe.

The bullet's coaches said that they were all in on Monroe and that Krause greatly exaggerated his role in the process. Jordan used to make fun of Krause by responding to Krause's bragging by saying, "Man Jerry, if you didn't draft Monroe at 2, he might have dropped all the way to 3."

 

 

On Jordan's first non-rookie deal:

 

David Falk mostly just dealt with Reinsdorf--I think he hated Krause but could get along with Reinsdorf. In the negotiations, Falk wanted 4 million a year. He explained that Jordan was worth more than 40 million extra dollars a year to the bulls. Despite that Reinsdorf said he would absolutely not pay anyone 4 million dollars a year (which is annoying in itself. I mean he paid 9 million dollars for the bulls and Jordan was making him so much money), but they eventually agreed on an 8 year contract for 3.25 million a year. It did make Jordan the highest paid player. But then Krause, for whatever weird reason, just wanted to release the years of the contract and not give out the fact that Jordan would be the highest paid player. Falk was annoyed at this, and Reinsdorf agreed with him, telling Krause he didn't get to handle it that way. At the press conference, Krause basically did it anyway, and was just saying "we signed a very good player for a long time." Falk was pissed that he was talking about it like Jordan was just a role player. Then a reporter asked Krause a question with specifics of the contract. Krause was like "How did you know that?" The reporter replied that the bulls had sent out a press release with the information.

 

Edited April 21, 2020 by PosterToBeNamedLater

[Hairyducked Idiot]

If Krause really wanted credit, he could have gone somewhere without Jordan and proved how responsible he was for the success.

[WrigleyField 22]

If Krause really wanted credit, he could have gone somewhere without Jordan and proved how responsible he was for the success.

He already had worn the butt imprint perfectly into his office chair. Easier to just nmake everyone else leave.

[imb]

I'm reading Playing For Keeps again too. I like it better than Jordan Rules.

[Andy]

I'm reading Playing For Keeps again too. I like it better than Jordan Rules.

I went on a Jordan kick a couple years ago and got both Playing for Keeps and The Life. Both great books. I haven't read Jordan Rules in forever but will probably get back to it at some point.

[imb]

I'm reading Playing For Keeps again too. I like it better than Jordan Rules.

I went on a Jordan kick a couple years ago and got both Playing for Keeps and The Life. Both great books. I haven't read Jordan Rules in forever but will probably get back to it at some point.

 

I haven't read any of them in quite a while. It's really interesting to read them in the current player empowerment era. There's so many times, at least once or twice per chapter, where you're just like what the horsefeathers

[17 Seconds]

it's funny how mj coudln't possibly be bigger, yet my collection of jordan inserts from the 90s is worth nothing. i can't believe my keith van horn finest rookie didn't make me rich by now.

[The Other One]

I'm reading Playing For Keeps again too. I like it better than Jordan Rules.

 

Sam Smith was a pretty good read in the Tribune and I'm sure his book is good but let's face it, Halberstam is the Michael Jordan of non-fiction writers.

 

No need to point out a distinction of which book is better.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I'm coming at this as someone who was never a huge basketball fan, and by the time I was old enough to know about basketball the Bulls were already on top and it would have felt weird to start rooting for them. The first episode really improved my image of Jordan. I liked the stuff about not being interested in the party, the work ethic in college, etc. The Krause stuff? Krause brought it on himself.

[Regular Show]

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[17 Seconds]

did anybody have that vhs for the first 3peat? i watched that so many time that it eventually broke, and there was no internet to find out how to fix it.

[Sammy Sofa]

did anybody have that vhs for the first 3peat? i watched that so many time that it eventually broke, and there was no internet to find out how to fix it.

 

Is that the one where the 3rd championship montage capping with Paxson hitting the 3 was soundtracked by super cheesy "and then a hero blah-blah-blah" song? If so, then horsefeathers yes.

[17 Seconds]

that suns series was so great. horace blocking the scumbag kj at the buzzer is an underrated bulls moment

[David]

did anybody have that vhs for the first 3peat? i watched that so many time that it eventually broke, and there was no internet to find out how to fix it.

 

Is that the one where the 3rd championship montage capping with Paxson hitting the 3 was soundtracked by super cheesy "and then a hero blah-blah-blah" song? If so, then horsefeathers yes.

 

the mariah carey song?

[Sammy Sofa]

did anybody have that vhs for the first 3peat? i watched that so many time that it eventually broke, and there was no internet to find out how to fix it.

 

Is that the one where the 3rd championship montage capping with Paxson hitting the 3 was soundtracked by super cheesy "and then a hero blah-blah-blah" song? If so, then horsefeathers yes.

 

the mariah carey song?

 

Oh, they were WAY too horsefeathering cheap to shell out for the top shelf horsefeathers like that. This was some Peter Cetera-sounding dork.

[Regular Show]

[Old Style]

Ten episodes isn't going to be near enough.

[Old Style]

Jerry Krause dancing on the team plane after sweeping the Pistons is pure horsefeathering gold.

[Cubswin11]

Jerry Krause dancing on the team plane after sweeping the Pistons is pure horsefeathering gold.

Absolutely amazing

 

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