2019-20 Offseason Rumors/General Chit-Chat

[JudasIscariotTheBird]

Not sure how much of my luck I'm pushing BUT considering Kieboom and some stuff for Bryant qualifies as a good or even great return it seems pretty clear you've significantly undersold all the major Cubs. Even if I resent how we got there - Corey Dickerson's salary passing/failing not sure - at least it served as an eye opener

Can you try and limit your comments to maybe make up only 1/6th (or hopefully even less) of the posts in this thread, please?

[JudasIscariotTheBird]

Can you try and limit your comments to maybe make up only 1/6th (or hopefully even less) of the posts in this thread, please?

 

...Hoooow does phrasing your request as a question asked directly to me solve your latest manufactured problem? The most insulting part of your many, many attempts to snipe me is how half witted they are

It isn't just my problem, and it was meant to be insulting. Seriously. You're just spamming at this point.

[JudasIscariotTheBird]

I'm even willing to cut down the posting, especially once life gets a little busier again soon, *specifically* to appease the weirdos so invested in involving me with their message board happiness

So let me get this straight. You've made up nearly half of the posts in this thread over the last week, you know you annoy the living hell out of a lot of the posters/readers here, and when I point out how ridiculous its been getting, I'M the 'weirdo' 'invested' in YOU?! I would just like it if you posted less because you post a lot. Try and discriminate. It's much more enjoyable for the reader. We'll all atttain message board happiness.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

He's posting on-topic. If it bothers you, foe him.

[Regular Show]

He's posting on-topic...

 

JudasIscariotTheBird is right. There is no harm in doing fewer posts, and trying to be more concise and coherent. It makes the board better and ...ah, happier I guess?

[Bertz]

 

I do find it interesting how much smoke there has been around a Javy extension even though everything else has been about how poor the Cubs are.

 

I wonder if that's why they're refusing to do even tiny moves until KB is traded. They can probably get a Javy extension done while staying under the tax by trading Quintana and not KB, but that leaves essentially zero room for anything else. So they need to keep that lane open in case they don't ultimately like the offers for Kris.

[Cubswin11]

Yeah I don’t see how they can do a Javy extension if they are going under the LT. Or see how that’s the smart thing to do at least, it keeps them from adding anything pretty much.

[Bertz]

Yeah I don’t see how they can do a Javy extension if they are going under the LT. Or see how that’s the smart thing to do at least, it keeps them from adding anything pretty much.

 

I think ultimately we see both KB and Q dealt, which would put the team ~$27M under the tax. That's enough room to extend Javy (adds $8-9M), add 2-3 bench bats ($3-5M each), and leave a small reserve (~$5) for the trade deadline.

 

But with so many moving parts, they don't want to close off any possibilities early. And if extending Javy really is part of Plan A, that may be why they don't even want to do something modest like a Shogo signing before they know they've got a preferred KB deal done.

[Backtobanks]

Yeah I don’t see how they can do a Javy extension if they are going under the LT. Or see how that’s the smart thing to do at least, it keeps them from adding anything pretty much.

 

I think ultimately we see both KB and Q dealt, which would put the team ~$27M under the tax. That's enough room to extend Javy (adds $8-9M), add 2-3 bench bats ($3-5M each), and leave a small reserve (~$5) for the trade deadline.

 

But with so many moving parts, they don't want to close off any possibilities early. And if extending Javy really is part of Plan A, that may be why they don't even want to do something modest like a Shogo signing before they know they've got a preferred KB deal done.

 

If you're trading KB and Q, then why in the world are we keeping a $16 million closer and a $13 million relief pitcher?

[Bryants Disco Ball]

Question. Does a Javy extension for sure impact this year's tax?

 

Couldn't they just start it next season, with his figure this season being whatever it was going to be through arbitration and the big(ger) money starting in 2021?

[Cubswin11]

Yeah I don’t see how they can do a Javy extension if they are going under the LT. Or see how that’s the smart thing to do at least, it keeps them from adding anything pretty much.

 

I think ultimately we see both KB and Q dealt, which would put the team ~$27M under the tax. That's enough room to extend Javy (adds $8-9M), add 2-3 bench bats ($3-5M each), and leave a small reserve (~$5) for the trade deadline.

 

But with so many moving parts, they don't want to close off any possibilities early. And if extending Javy really is part of Plan A, that may be why they don't even want to do something modest like a Shogo signing before they know they've got a preferred KB deal done.

 

If you're trading KB and Q, then why in the world are we keeping a $16 million closer and a $13 million relief pitcher?

Yeah, hmm. Really hard to figure out why they’d be stuck having to keep Kimbrel and Chatwood.

[Cubswin11]

Question. Does a Javy extension for sure impact this year's tax?

 

Couldn't they just start it next season, with his figure this season being whatever it was going to be through arbitration and the big(ger) money starting in 2021?

Does it work that way? If he signs an extension, even if stays at the arb figure this year isn’t the LT hit of whatever the AAV is of the new deal?

[Regular Show]

Question. Does a Javy extension for sure impact this year's tax?

 

Couldn't they just start it next season, with his figure this season being whatever it was going to be through arbitration and the big(ger) money starting in 2021?

 

Correct. You can delay when the team and player sign the extension during the season so it counts towards future seasons. The number for luxury tax purposes would just be the arbitration amount they agree to ($8-9M).

 

If the contract extension supercedes the arbitration figure and they agree to replace it then the new figure is what matters, but teams have agreed to an extension and signed it during the season for luxury tax purposes before to help the team.

[Tim]

Yeah I don’t see how they can do a Javy extension if they are going under the LT. Or see how that’s the smart thing to do at least, it keeps them from adding anything pretty much.

 

I think ultimately we see both KB and Q dealt, which would put the team ~$27M under the tax. That's enough room to extend Javy (adds $8-9M), add 2-3 bench bats ($3-5M each), and leave a small reserve (~$5) for the trade deadline.

 

But with so many moving parts, they don't want to close off any possibilities early. And if extending Javy really is part of Plan A, that may be why they don't even want to do something modest like a Shogo signing before they know they've got a preferred KB deal done.

 

If you're trading KB and Q, then why in the world are we keeping a $16 million closer and a $13 million relief pitcher?

Probably because of one of the following:

 

1) depending on the returns, the Cubs could either still be favored or at least have a realistic shot in the division

2) you're hoping for a solid first half from the closer to up his value from where it is right now

3) somebody still has to pitch and the "relief" pitcher would be one of the five best options remaining

[SouthSideRyan]

 

I think ultimately we see both KB and Q dealt, which would put the team ~$27M under the tax. That's enough room to extend Javy (adds $8-9M), add 2-3 bench bats ($3-5M each), and leave a small reserve (~$5) for the trade deadline.

 

But with so many moving parts, they don't want to close off any possibilities early. And if extending Javy really is part of Plan A, that may be why they don't even want to do something modest like a Shogo signing before they know they've got a preferred KB deal done.

 

If you're trading KB and Q, then why in the world are we keeping a $16 million closer and a $13 million relief pitcher?

Probably because of one of the following:

 

1) depending on the returns, the Cubs could either still be favored or at least have a realistic shot in the division

2) you're hoping for a solid first half from the closer to up his value from where it is right now

3) somebody still has to pitch and the "relief" pitcher would be one of the five best options remaining

 

#3 makes no sense. If we're down to "somebody has to pitch" that means we're not trying to win and we're supposed to be as bad as possible.

[Cubswin11]

 

I think ultimately we see both KB and Q dealt, which would put the team ~$27M under the tax. That's enough room to extend Javy (adds $8-9M), add 2-3 bench bats ($3-5M each), and leave a small reserve (~$5) for the trade deadline.

 

But with so many moving parts, they don't want to close off any possibilities early. And if extending Javy really is part of Plan A, that may be why they don't even want to do something modest like a Shogo signing before they know they've got a preferred KB deal done.

 

If you're trading KB and Q, then why in the world are we keeping a $16 million closer and a $13 million relief pitcher?

Probably because of one of the following:

 

1) depending on the returns, the Cubs could either still be favored or at least have a realistic shot in the division

2) you're hoping for a solid first half from the closer to up his value from where it is right now

3) somebody still has to pitch and the "relief" pitcher would be one of the five best options remaining

I think it’s pretty much as simple as you aren’t getting anything back for either and you’re going to have to include money and/or prospects you don’t want to move to move either of them.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

 

If you're trading KB and Q, then why in the world are we keeping a $16 million closer and a $13 million relief pitcher?

Probably because of one of the following:

 

1) depending on the returns, the Cubs could either still be favored or at least have a realistic shot in the division

2) you're hoping for a solid first half from the closer to up his value from where it is right now

3) somebody still has to pitch and the "relief" pitcher would be one of the five best options remaining

 

#3 makes no sense. If we're down to "somebody has to pitch" that means we're not trying to win and we're supposed to be as bad as possible.

 

Nobody ever meant that, it was just a rationalization when they were really bad.

[Backtobanks]

 

If you're trading KB and Q, then why in the world are we keeping a $16 million closer and a $13 million relief pitcher?

Probably because of one of the following:

 

1) depending on the returns, the Cubs could either still be favored or at least have a realistic shot in the division

2) you're hoping for a solid first half from the closer to up his value from where it is right now

3) somebody still has to pitch and the "relief" pitcher would be one of the five best options remaining

I think it’s pretty much as simple as you aren’t getting anything back for either and you’re going to have to include money and/or prospects you don’t want to move to move either of them.

 

If you are that desperate to save money, then you either kick in some cash or add a prospect to get rid of them. Also, it would have been much easier to move them before everyone else made trades and signed free agents, but everything is on shutdown until the KB ruling. There's absolutely no reason that Theo couldn't make other deals to reduce payroll while waiting for the KB decision.

[Cubswin11]

Probably because of one of the following:

 

1) depending on the returns, the Cubs could either still be favored or at least have a realistic shot in the division

2) you're hoping for a solid first half from the closer to up his value from where it is right now

3) somebody still has to pitch and the "relief" pitcher would be one of the five best options remaining

I think it’s pretty much as simple as you aren’t getting anything back for either and you’re going to have to include money and/or prospects you don’t want to move to move either of them.

 

If you are that desperate to save money, then you either kick in some cash or add a prospect to get rid of them. Also, it would have been much easier to move them before everyone else made trades and signed free agents, but everything is on shutdown until the KB ruling. There's absolutely no reason that Theo couldn't make other deals to reduce payroll while waiting for the KB decision.

As has been mentioned, it’s probably that he doesn’t want to trade either right now until they know what’s going on with KB. They probably want to make sure they get a guy back who can start in a trade for KB before shedding 1 or 2 guys who have a rotation spot currently. You can likely move a Chatwood in ST regardless if you attach a prospect and decide to keep KB then go dumpster dive on a swing man or whatever.

 

If the planned outcome is KB is likely gone in a month or so it really doesn’t matter to move Chatwood or Q right now anyways to free up money to sign a margin add like Shogo, Cesar, etc because they aren’t winning anyways.

[Backtobanks]

I think it’s pretty much as simple as you aren’t getting anything back for either and you’re going to have to include money and/or prospects you don’t want to move to move either of them.

 

If you are that desperate to save money, then you either kick in some cash or add a prospect to get rid of them. Also, it would have been much easier to move them before everyone else made trades and signed free agents, but everything is on shutdown until the KB ruling. There's absolutely no reason that Theo couldn't make other deals to reduce payroll while waiting for the KB decision.

As has been mentioned, it’s probably that he doesn’t want to trade either right now until they know what’s going on with KB. They probably want to make sure they get a guy back who can start in a trade for KB before shedding 1 or 2 guys who have a rotation spot currently. You can likely move a Chatwood in ST regardless if you attach a prospect and decide to keep KB then go dumpster dive on a swing man or whatever.

 

If the planned outcome is KB is likely gone in a month or so it really doesn’t matter to move Chatwood or Q right now anyways to free up money to sign a margin add like Shogo, Cesar, etc because they aren’t winning anyways.

 

Waiting 2-3 more months to trade someone like Chatwood really will diminish any trade value he had. A couple of months ago, Chatwood and Bote to Texas might have given us a decent return, but after adding Kluber, Gibson, & Lyles they no longer need a SP. The fact that Theo is fixated on trading KB and needing to await his decision before doing anything to help the club is really frustrating.

[Cubswin11]

 

If you are that desperate to save money, then you either kick in some cash or add a prospect to get rid of them. Also, it would have been much easier to move them before everyone else made trades and signed free agents, but everything is on shutdown until the KB ruling. There's absolutely no reason that Theo couldn't make other deals to reduce payroll while waiting for the KB decision.

As has been mentioned, it’s probably that he doesn’t want to trade either right now until they know what’s going on with KB. They probably want to make sure they get a guy back who can start in a trade for KB before shedding 1 or 2 guys who have a rotation spot currently. You can likely move a Chatwood in ST regardless if you attach a prospect and decide to keep KB then go dumpster dive on a swing man or whatever.

 

If the planned outcome is KB is likely gone in a month or so it really doesn’t matter to move Chatwood or Q right now anyways to free up money to sign a margin add like Shogo, Cesar, etc because they aren’t winning anyways.

 

Waiting 2-3 more months to trade someone like Chatwood really will diminish any trade value he had. A couple of months ago, Chatwood and Bote to Texas might have given us a decent return, but after adding Kluber, Gibson, & Lyles they no longer need a SP. The fact that Theo is fixated on trading KB and needing to await his decision before doing anything to help the club is really frustrating.

Chatwood has no value, I don't see how we were getting anything back for him in the last month and nothing will change in 3 months, IMO. He's a pure dump that a team like the Mariners take because they get like Cole Roederer or something to pay him $13 million this year or he's a guy a team that loses pitching in ST takes a gamble on but we still need to throw a prospect in with him but maybe the level of prospect diminishes because of the need for pitching increases. But yes this is all really frustrating.

[Bertz]

There was an Eno Sarris article earlier this winter about things the public doesn't know about working in a FO, and one of them was that it's extremely hard to dump salary. FO's basically fetishize "flexibility" and so it's not as simple as attaching $10M worth of prospects to a guy with a contract that is $10M underwater.

 

It's frustrating, but if the market is going to act irrationally in this way I don't expect a Chatwood move.

[Deeg]

Chatwood still has negative value and since we’re basically punting 2020 at this point, the most logical thing is to trade Quintana and give Chatwood one of the rotation spots hoping you can flip him to a contender at the deadline. The only way he gets traded now is if the FH is desperate to get under the LT and hasn’t been able to trade Bryant to get there, but I suspect you’d have to add someone like Roederer or better to get a team to eat the entire salary.

[Backtobanks]

Chatwood still has negative value and since we’re basically punting 2020 at this point, the most logical thing is to trade Quintana and give Chatwood one of the rotation spots hoping you can flip him to a contender at the deadline. The only way he gets traded now is if the FH is desperate to get under the LT and hasn’t been able to trade Bryant to get there, but I suspect you’d have to add someone like Roederer or better to get a team to eat the entire salary.

 

Eating 1/2 of his salary (or adding a prospect) might make him worth something. A back-of-the-rotation possibility for $7 million over one year might fit a lot of teams, while saving us $6 million. Same thing for Kimbrel (saving $7-$8 million) to someone who needs a closer.

[UMFan83]

I was going to post this in the Shogo thread but it was unceremoniously locked..

 

[tweet]

[/tweet]

lol