The way too early, but I'm bored, Off-season Options Thread

[Tim]

Between the Rosarios, Farrells, Hancocks, Mills, and so on there’s not $2-3 million to free up?

You know we need to keep ~40 on the 40 man roster, right? how will replacing minimum cost players with other minimum cost players help?

[davell]

To repeat. This has nothing to do with who is actually better. The only point that matters is that the monetary discrepancy between the two is a huge issue in any scenario where we're pursuing Bryce Harper and every dollar towards the high end of the LT matters.

 

I do find it odd though, that in your scenario of how we're acquiring guys..... You've got us acquiring Realmuto for an Almora led package, when Robles wasn't enough to get it done in reality.

 

All of this is a completely moot point, because we have much larger needs than at C and it's the height of stupidity to waste ours on that, when there's better ways to use them up out there.

[Sammy Sofa]

To repeat. This has nothing to do with who is actually better. The only point that matters is that the monetary discrepancy between the two is a huge issue in any scenario where we're pursuing Bryce Harper and every dollar towards the high end of the LT matters.

 

I do find it odd though, that in your scenario of how we're acquiring guys..... You've got us acquiring Realmuto for an Almora led package, when Robles wasn't enough to get it done in reality.

 

All of this is a completely moot point, because we have much larger needs than at C and it's the height of stupidity to waste ours on that, when there's better ways to use them up out there.

 

Yeah, this is such a Tom thing to do: just get completely hung up on a totally unnecessary hypothetical move hinged on a player who MIGHT be enough of an upgrade to justify the cost.

Edited September 3, 2018 by Sammy Sofa

[imb]

Giles peripherals are solid. Hes not a bad contract. And if he WAS, they'd non tender him anyway. Now Chatwood, on the other hand, has 2/25.5 left on his deal. In all honesty, if he's a FA, what's he getting from a team? 1/4 was my honest guess. But, an incentive laden minor league deal is a legit possibility. Plenty of low end options out there, that are cheap. No reason why anyone needs to pay up for him. Don't see us trading him at the absolute lowest his value could get.

 

Are you guys talking about Ken Giles? The idiot with seriously bad makeup concerns? horsefeathers no, we're not trading for that loser...

 

[tweet]

[/tweet]

 

Just move on guys. Theo and Jed aren't making a trade for him lol.

 

now if he'd punched a woman instead of himself, they might consider it

[davell]

It's not a bad offseason. Never said it was. It's good. Even very good. (Although we're not going to be able to dump Chatwood and I don't see us moving Q)But, it's too much. We're not going over the max end of the LT. Don't see ANY team doing that, with the upcoming CBA war. That's ammo for the players union.

 

It also would make it extremely tough to ever get back under the max, because new needs always pop up and all that. Plus the rising costs of our youngsters.

 

On top of that, I honestly don't see the Marlins trading Realmuto. They've said they want to build around him. It's the Marlins, so hard to trust them. But, this FO seems dumb too, so they very well could hold onto him.

 

Again, none of that even matters. It's too much hassle for us to go down that road. Especially when we have a very good C already.

 

 

Keep it simpler. We don't need and won't have THAT much movement, because we've got an excellent team already.

[Tim]

To repeat. This has nothing to do with who is actually better. The only point that matters is that the monetary discrepancy between the two is a huge issue in any scenario where we're pursuing Bryce Harper and every dollar towards the high end of the LT matters.

 

I do find it odd though, that in your scenario of how we're acquiring guys..... You've got us acquiring Realmuto for an Almora led package, when Robles wasn't enough to get it done in reality.

 

All of this is a completely moot point, because we have much larger needs than at C and it's the height of stupidity to waste ours on that, when there's better ways to use them up out there.

 

Robles keeps choosing to run into walls every year, Realmuto lost a year a service time since then...Almora, Montgomery, Caratini (in which case go grab one of the many floating backup Cs for cheap, which they should do anyway), Mills, and Marquez for Realmuto and Conley

 

Doesn’t that offseason cover the needs? Harper, first division SP, more reliever depth, better lineup, better bench...We’re quibbling about potentially being a couple million over the LT for a year to acquire Harper, Realmuto, and Stroman in one offseason when natural FA losses will cover both those guys’ ‘19 and ‘20 salaries

I don't know that you could prove Stroman is better than Monty right now.

[Sammy Sofa]

Most of these are seemingly just moves for the sake of making moves. There's not enough improvement to justify them.

[Cubswin11]

Most of these are seemingly just moves for the sake of making moves. There's not enough improvement to justify them.

Any time you can add 2 guys that aren’t certain to be better than the players they are replacing that are controlled for less years and cost more than the players they are replacing (that also put you so close to the max LT you can’t do other meaningful moves) while using up assets to get them that could be used for other actual needs and better player fits for the current team or, you know, keep them because they’re already plenty good players you gotta do it.

[Sammy Sofa]

- It’s basically a 3 move offseason with a couple reliever signings most notable because the Cubs make them.

 

What in the world.

 

Simple was a goal - I think this really simplifies and consolidates the roster

 

What in the world x 2.

 

Why would you possibly care about "simplifying" and "consolidating" the roster.

[davell]

It's not a bad offseason. Never said it was. It's good. Even very good. (Although we're not going to be able to dump Chatwood and I don't see us moving Q)But, it's too much. We're not going over the max end of the LT. Don't see ANY team doing that, with the upcoming CBA war. That's ammo for the players union.

 

It also would make it extremely tough to ever get back under the max, because new needs always pop up and all that. Plus the rising costs of our youngsters.

 

On top of that, I honestly don't see the Marlins trading Realmuto. They've said they want to build around him. It's the Marlins, so hard to trust them. But, this FO seems dumb too, so they very well could hold onto him.

 

Again, none of that even matters. It's too much hassle for us to go down that road. Especially when we have a very good C already.

 

 

Keep it simpler. We don't need and won't have THAT much movement, because we've got an excellent team already.

 

- I don’t necessarily believe they end up over the max with that main group of players (Bryant, Harper, Baez, Realmuto, Rizzo, Stroman, Darvish, Lester, Hendricks, Edwards) between ‘19-‘21 in this scenario

 

- It’s basically a 3 move offseason with a couple reliever signings most notable because the Cubs make them. Simple was a goal - I think this really simplifies and consolidates the roster before the inevitable Bryant extension and sticks to my “ride the wave the next three years” plan with a better cast around Bryant

 

- I think for sure the Marlins trade Realmuto. No one’s building around a soon to be 28 YO C with 3 years before FA. I think you can trade for him and offer a 5/60 extension after 2019

 

My main point though is I don't see it necessary to trade out Willy and Q for Realmuto and Stroman. The talent level is close enough to where those moves aren't warranted.

 

Again, I'm evidently one of the few here that thinks adding Stroman is a decent enough idea. But, not at the expense of losing Quintana. Plus, I will keep bringing up Chatwood. Because moving him is going to hurt far worse than what I think you're thinking it will.

[davell]

It's not a bad offseason. Never said it was. It's good. Even very good. (Although we're not going to be able to dump Chatwood and I don't see us moving Q)But, it's too much. We're not going over the max end of the LT. Don't see ANY team doing that, with the upcoming CBA war. That's ammo for the players union.

 

It also would make it extremely tough to ever get back under the max, because new needs always pop up and all that. Plus the rising costs of our youngsters.

 

On top of that, I honestly don't see the Marlins trading Realmuto. They've said they want to build around him. It's the Marlins, so hard to trust them. But, this FO seems dumb too, so they very well could hold onto him.

 

Again, none of that even matters. It's too much hassle for us to go down that road. Especially when we have a very good C already.

 

 

Keep it simpler. We don't need and won't have THAT much movement, because we've got an excellent team already.

 

- I don’t necessarily believe they end up over the max with that main group of players (Bryant, Harper, Baez, Realmuto, Rizzo, Stroman, Darvish, Lester, Hendricks, Edwards) between ‘19-‘21 in this scenario

 

- It’s basically a 3 move offseason with a couple reliever signings most notable because the Cubs make them. Simple was a goal - I think this really simplifies and consolidates the roster before the inevitable Bryant extension and sticks to my “ride the wave the next three years” plan with a better cast around Bryant

 

- I think for sure the Marlins trade Realmuto. No one’s building around a soon to be 28 YO C with 3 years before FA. I think you can trade for him and offer a 5/60 extension after 2019

 

My main point though is I don't see it necessary to trade out Willy and Q for Realmuto and Stroman. The talent level is close enough to where those moves aren't warranted.

 

Again, I'm evidently one of the few here that thinks adding Stroman is a decent enough idea. But, not at the expense of losing Quintana. Plus, I will keep bringing up Chatwood. Because moving him is going to hurt far worse than what I think you're thinking it will.

[Cubswin11]

- It’s basically a 3 move offseason with a couple reliever signings most notable because the Cubs make them.

 

What in the world.

 

Simple was a goal - I think this really simplifies and consolidates the roster

 

What in the world x 2.

 

Why would you possibly care about "simplifying" and "consolidating" the roster.

If I have learned one thing watching the Cubs the last 4 years it’s that having depth and interchangeable parts is bad and it needs to be consolidated by trading out 2-3 players for 1 player who has about the same value of every player being traded out for him.

[Sammy Sofa]

The anal retentive GM is the new market inefficiency, in that it's a really horsefeathering inefficient way to put together a team.

[Cubswin11]

If I have learned one thing watching the Cubs the last 4 years it’s that having depth and interchangeable parts is bad and it needs to be consolidated by trading out 2-3 players for 1 player who has about the same value of every player being traded out for him.

 

I’m not understanding. The pitching staff is deeper, the lineup is deeper, the bench is better, and in many scenarios we’ve talked about maxing the LT for a few years anyway.

How does trading out Monty, Q, Chatwood, Willy And Almora for Stroman and Realmuto make us deeper?

 

None of those moves are Bryce dependent either so Bryce doesn’t count as added depth because he could be added if those moves aren’t made.

[davell]

My main point though is I don't see it necessary to trade out Willy and Q for Realmuto and Stroman. The talent level is close enough to where those moves aren't warranted.

 

Again, I'm evidently one of the few here that thinks adding Stroman is a decent enough idea. But, not at the expense of losing Quintana. Plus, I will keep bringing up Chatwood. Because moving him is going to hurt far worse than what I think you're thinking it will.

 

They could not resign Hamels and voila

 

But, we like Cole lol.

[Cubswin11]

How does trading out Monty, Q, Chatwood, Willy And Almora for Stroman and Realmuto make us deeper?

 

None of those moves are Bryce dependent either so Bryce doesn’t count as added depth because he could be added if those moves aren’t made.

 

We saw the after roster for those moves, right? That team is loaded through 2021. Quintana’s an oversight I let whirlpool for discussion’s sake, still not sure how to handle it actually

Our 6th starter is Smyly? Mills? I just don’t think that roster projects to be anything better than just doing the simpler moves of signing Bryce, Hamels, backup C and a RP while trading off Kintzler/Duensing for savings (a guy like Maples should be enough to attach to move them), then trade Almora and some other stuff for a nice bullpen arm.

[Aaron_Kennelly]

I apologize for ever calling David Stearns a Galaxy Brain.

[Tim]

I'm really starting to wonder if we go after Bryce or Machado unless we can get a relative bargain. I think we may see an offseason that goes something like this...

 

Exercise options on:

 

Hamels

Quintana

Strop

 

Trade:

 

Chatwood, Duensing, Kintzler for whatever savings can be had (assume we can save $6M while paying the rest) for lottery tickets

LaStella for relief prospect?

 

Sign:

 

Yasmani Grandal

Justin Wilson

Jesse Chavez

 

 

Lineup: Contreras / Rizzo / Baez / Russell / Bryant / Zobrist / Heyward / Schwarber

Bench: Happ / Almora / Grandal / Bote

Rotation: Hamels / Lester / Hendricks / Darvish / Quintana

Swing: Montgomery / Smyly

Bullpen: Morrow / Strop / Edwards / Cishek / Wilson / Chavez

Shuttle: Maples / Mekkes / Webster / Norwood / Alzolay / etc

 

 

That might be a disappointing outcome for us, but it would be enough below max luxury tax that they could make in-season moves. The starting pitching is seven deep. The bullpen could use one more guy and they could sign someone else to join the crew, but there's a lot of quality depth building up in AAA. Signing Grandal would encourage Joe to give more rest to Willson and Grandal might be able to help him improve his framing, for whatever that's worth. Hopefully Russell's nagging injuries this year have been the reason for his performance, much like Zobrist last year. Bote replaces LaStellas as the last man on the bench, though they may keep Tommy since they love his fit in the pinch hitting role.

 

I'd call that the "If it ain't broke" offseason.

 

----------------------

 

On another note...I could see them falling in love with what Murphy has brought to the offense and prioritizing extending him this offseason.

[Cubswin11]

I'm really starting to wonder if we go after Bryce or Machado unless we can get a relative bargain. I think we may see an offseason that goes something like this...

 

Exercise options on:

 

Hamels

Quintana

Strop

 

Trade:

 

Chatwood, Duensing, Kintzler for whatever savings can be had (assume we can save $6M while paying the rest) for lottery tickets

LaStella for relief prospect?

 

Sign:

 

Yasmani Grandal

Justin Wilson

Jesse Chavez

 

 

Lineup: Contreras / Rizzo / Baez / Russell / Bryant / Zobrist / Heyward / Schwarber

Bench: Happ / Almora / Grandal / Bote

Rotation: Hamels / Lester / Hendricks / Darvish / Quintana

Swing: Montgomery / Smyly

Bullpen: Morrow / Strop / Edwards / Cishek / Wilson / Chavez

Shuttle: Maples / Mekkes / Webster / Norwood / Alzolay / etc

 

 

That might be a disappointing outcome for us, but it would be enough below max luxury tax that they could make in-season moves. The starting pitching is seven deep. The bullpen could use one more guy and they could sign someone else to join the crew, but there's a lot of quality depth building up in AAA. Signing Grandal would encourage Joe to give more rest to Willson and Grandal might be able to help him improve his framing, for whatever that's worth. Hopefully Russell's nagging injuries this year have been the reason for his performance, much like Zobrist last year. Bote replaces LaStellas as the last man on the bench, though they may keep Tommy since they love his fit in the pinch hitting role.

 

I'd call that the "If it ain't broke" offseason.

 

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On another note...I could see them falling in love with what Murphy has brought to the offense and prioritizing extending him this offseason.

I entirely understand this and can see, but still just go get Bryce horsefeathering Harper and figure it out from there.

 

 

But if your plan is the rough plan I’d hope they’d add a premium bullpen arm (Ottavino or Miller preferably).

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Yasmani Grandal is going to get starting money from someone and won’t sign with the Cubs to platoon with Willson. I mean, he’s got the 4th best WAR amongst catchers in baseball this season.

[Tim]

Yasmani Grandal is going to get starting money from someone and won’t sign with the Cubs to platoon with Willson. I mean, he’s got the 4th best WAR amongst catchers in baseball this season.

Replace him with next best option, then.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Our 6th starter is Smyly? Mills? I just don’t think that roster projects to be anything better than just doing the simpler moves of signing Bryce, Hamels, backup C and a RP while trading off Kintzler/Duensing for savings (a guy like Maples should be enough to attach to move them), then trade Almora and some other stuff for a nice bullpen arm.

 

Smyly, Mills, and Alzolay serve as starters 6-8, and the FO can grab someone really cheap with experience in a long man/flex role in that $1.5 range like Zach McCallister.

 

—

 

What reliever are we shooting for with Almora? I don’t hate Joe Jimenez of the Tigers if I have to name someone not Rasiel Iglesias. Stanek from the Rays, maybe? Matt Strahm? I like the previously mentioned Conley from the Marlins too :wink:

 

James Pazos from Seattle (would need to get something more in return for Almora).

 

San Diego wouldn’t want a CF in return but I like Kirby Yates.

[Bertz]

I don't expect big moves on the pitching side. I think they bring back Cole, and otherwise focus on depth. The main goal basically being not caught with their pants down again like they did this summer. Basically I'm expecting something like this

 

- Exercise Cole's option

- Sign Bryce

- Trade Happ to someone who is willing to both eat Chatwood's salary, and give us a back an Alzolay-esque fun young starter who we can stash at Iowa

 

The team can't really move on from Lester or Darvish, and they probably shouldn't move on from Q, so it becomes about having depth and options. If the rotation had had a strong year, I think Montgomery would have been moved this winter, but instead he comes into the year ticketed as the Wilson replacement, but also sticks around for additional starter depth. Smyly is the long guy and designated 6th starter. And then Alzolay plus the guy who comes back in the Happ trade hang out in Iowa. That basically gives us 9 guys we're comfortable having start, probably overkill but after this year probably necessary to truly have peace of mind.

[Bull]

I agree with the “if it ain’t broke” sentiment. I don’t see a need for sweeping changes. If you can upgrade quality cheaply (in terms of assets not necessarily cash) do it. Trying not to give up draft picks is a priority (a secondary priority to adding a generational talent).

 

I think it’s hilarious how many have bemoaned the failures of this 95 win team. A handful of minor moves takes this from an elite team to a team that continues to be so so elite it can weather the loss of Its number 2 pitcher, MVP caliber 3Rd baseman and closer for several months and still win 95 games.

[JennieGarthAlgar]

I think the "if it aint broke dont fix it" plan looks fine now but once we get back to the World Series and get our butts kicked by the Astros or Red Sox we will all be here agreeing that we need Bryce and more