Discuss NLDS vs. Dusty Baker's Nationals

nobull · October 13, 2017

Banned for loving Dusty?

Harsh....but fair.
It must really rankle you Dusty Busters that Dusty Baker is more successful than you'll ever be. He's better paid, more well-liked, probably had more and better gals then you, and when it's all said and done and it's in the history books he will be remembered as a good manager. And no one will remember you.

And on top of this, he's ruining your Cubs. And he'll probably finish out his contract - your protests are going to go totally unheeded. la (laugh aloud), it's such a waste of energy!

It's kinda sad, when I put it in these real life terms, isn't it? I feel for you.

Me, I give Dusty credit when it's due, like with Neifi today, and I'd rather elevate than denigrate anyway, makes me happier. To point out every little flaw doesn't do it for me either.

What it comes down to for me, is that when y'all can't even give credit to the guy when a move he makes turns out well, that's just sad.

Oh, also, this is great

http://www.northsidebaseball.com/archive/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29866&p=848659#p848659

Congrats Dusty you did it again. LOSE THE BIG GAME!!!!

LeonDurham · October 13, 2017

Let's face it. The Cubs were lucky to win this game.

Wild pitch strikeout, catcher interference, throw the ball away, Werth loses it in the lights, Contreras picks off a guy - probably out, but I thought it was a tough overturn. Any one of these improbable occurrences doesn't happen, then who knows. This is not even mentioning how they left 14 guys on base, outhit them 14-9, and outhomered them 2-0.

We can kill Dusty. Dusty isn't the greatest manager out there. He seems to ignore analytics. Overuses his pitchers. But his teams perform for him.

Rally Monkey game, Bartman game, and now this one. It's gotta sting. He seems to be hit with bad luck. It's tough to blame him for this one.

Brian707 · October 13, 2017

Congrats Dusty you did it again. LOSE THE BIG GAME!!!!

David · October 13, 2017

Let's face it. The Cubs were lucky to win this game.

Wild pitch strikeout, catcher interference, throw the ball away, Werth loses it in the lights, Contreras picks off a guy - probably out, but I thought it was a tough overturn. Any one of these improbable occurrences doesn't happen, then who knows. This is not even mentioning how they left 14 guys on base, outhit them 14-9, and outhomered them 2-0.

We can kill Dusty. Dusty isn't the greatest manager out there. He seems to ignore analytics. Overuses his pitchers. But his teams perform for him.
Rally Monkey game, Bartman game, and now this one. It's gotta sting. He seems to be hit with bad luck. It's tough to blame him for this one.

you mean he has managed very talented teams

Hunter · October 13, 2017

Let's face it. The Cubs were lucky to win this game.

Wild pitch strikeout, catcher interference, throw the ball away, Werth loses it in the lights, Contreras picks off a guy - probably out, but I thought it was a tough overturn. Any one of these improbable occurrences doesn't happen, then who knows. This is not even mentioning how they left 14 guys on base, outhit them 14-9, and outhomered them 2-0.

We can kill Dusty. Dusty isn't the greatest manager out there. He seems to ignore analytics. Overuses his pitchers. But his teams perform for him.
Rally Monkey game, Bartman game, and now this one. It's gotta sting. He seems to be hit with bad luck. It's tough to blame him for this one.

The Nationals made a lot of dumb decisions. Wieters moves up on pitches way too much, hence getting interference called, and getting knocked in the head. Werth is just horribly awful in the outfield, He is a Schwarber equalizer on defense. No reason to be leaning too far off base in that situation = don't get picked off. Both teams were terrible with LOB, 15 and 19.

cl smooth · October 13, 2017

was there a convincing argument as to why dusty started jayson werth over howie kendrick in this series? Edited October 13, 2017 by cl smooth

Post Count Padder · October 13, 2017

I don't know if this makes me a horsefeathers fan or not, but I went to a concert last night because I already had tickets and I also knew I'd be a nervous wreck watching the game.

Having spent the night checking Twitter and stress-drinking PBRs, I'm not sure it was any better. This team, man.

:flythew:

Hunter · October 13, 2017

Werth is even worse on defense than I thought. His UZR/150 is -15.1 for this season. Guy hasn't caught a a single 40% chance or lower catch in 4 seasons. and is career 21% rating on Even catches in the 40%-60%.

LeonDurham · October 13, 2017

Let's face it. The Cubs were lucky to win this game.

Wild pitch strikeout, catcher interference, throw the ball away, Werth loses it in the lights, Contreras picks off a guy - probably out, but I thought it was a tough overturn. Any one of these improbable occurrences doesn't happen, then who knows. This is not even mentioning how they left 14 guys on base, outhit them 14-9, and outhomered them 2-0.

We can kill Dusty. Dusty isn't the greatest manager out there. He seems to ignore analytics. Overuses his pitchers. But his teams perform for him.
Rally Monkey game, Bartman game, and now this one. It's gotta sting. He seems to be hit with bad luck. It's tough to blame him for this one.

The Nationals made a lot of dumb decisions. Wieters moves up on pitches way too much, hence getting interference called, and getting knocked in the head. Werth is just horribly awful in the outfield, He is a Schwarber equalizer on defense. No reason to be leaning too far off base in that situation = don't get picked off. Both teams were terrible with LOB, 15 and 19.

Can you point to an egregiously bad decision he made that cost him the game? The most idiotic thing he did to me was challenging the first play- that was Marc Trestman like. But many people would argue Joe managed the game as poorly as Dusty. If the pickoff doesn't happen and Wade blows up in the 8th, that decision to blow the whole pen and then put him in the 7th would be second guessed forever. You can also point to game 7 last year.

But Dusty's players fucked up over and over.

Everyone loves to blame managers because everyone can second guess them. Most people have such limited understanding of basketball or football Xs and Os that they can't be second guessed to the same degree. But in the end, baseball managers are most important for team morale and motivation. Their in game decision making is overrated. Not to say its not important, but overrated in general.

David · October 13, 2017

I don't know if this makes me a horsefeathers fan or not, but I went to a concert last night because I already had tickets and I also knew I'd be a nervous wreck watching the game.

Having spent the night checking Twitter and stress-drinking PBRs, I'm not sure it was any better. This team, man.

:flythew:

Even I wouldn't miss game five for a concert

jersey cubs fan · October 13, 2017

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Hunter · October 13, 2017

Let's face it. The Cubs were lucky to win this game.

Wild pitch strikeout, catcher interference, throw the ball away, Werth loses it in the lights, Contreras picks off a guy - probably out, but I thought it was a tough overturn. Any one of these improbable occurrences doesn't happen, then who knows. This is not even mentioning how they left 14 guys on base, outhit them 14-9, and outhomered them 2-0.

We can kill Dusty. Dusty isn't the greatest manager out there. He seems to ignore analytics. Overuses his pitchers. But his teams perform for him.
Rally Monkey game, Bartman game, and now this one. It's gotta sting. He seems to be hit with bad luck. It's tough to blame him for this one.

The Nationals made a lot of dumb decisions. Wieters moves up on pitches way too much, hence getting interference called, and getting knocked in the head. Werth is just horribly awful in the outfield, He is a Schwarber equalizer on defense. No reason to be leaning too far off base in that situation = don't get picked off. Both teams were terrible with LOB, 15 and 19.

Can you point to an egregiously bad decision he made that cost him the game? The most idiotic thing he did to me was challenging the first play- that was Marc Trestman like. But many people would argue Joe managed the game as poorly as Dusty. If the pickoff doesn't happen and Wade blows up in the 8th, that decision to blow the whole pen and then put him in the 7th would be second guessed forever. You can also point to game 7 last year.

But Dusty's players horsefeathers up over and over.

Everyone loves to blame managers because everyone can second guess them. Most people have such limited understanding of basketball or football Xs and Os that they can't be second guessed to the same degree. But in the end, baseball managers are most important for team morale and motivation. Their in game decision making is overrated. Not to say its not important, but overrated in general.

In this series? There are quite a few times he could have pinch-hit Kendrick or Lind and he didn't. Nats fans were screaming over it. Werth should have been replaced in the outfield several times and wasn't. The whole Strasburg saga could have horribly backfired on them. Pitching an injured Scherzer on such short rest and after he went long in his last game, wasn't helpful.

Joe made a few bad decisions, like putting Carl in, but when no one else can throw strikes, what do you do? Also, Baker having a hissy fit every time something went wrong doesn't help. It was just like 2003. Stuff starts to unwind and instead of rallying his guys, he's over there smacking on the railing and hiding his toothpick.

biittner77 · October 13, 2017

Dusty Baker wrote

"When you're fishing for striped bass, you don't use a bobber unless you're using a spoon lure. You know what I mean?"

Transmogrified Tiger · October 13, 2017

Jayson Werth got as many plate appearances as Rendon, and 18 more than Lind, Kendrick, and Goodwin combined

He let the Nationals blow a lead in the late innings without Madson or Doolittle pitching

He stacked the back half of the lineup with right handed hitters + Wieters (despite options like Lind and Goodwin) and never pinch hit for them, making it really easy to plan around in the late innings. Strop retiring 11 of 13 hitters in the series is not an accident.

minnesotacubsfan · October 13, 2017

Let's face it. The Cubs were lucky to win this game.

Wild pitch strikeout, catcher interference, throw the ball away, Werth loses it in the lights, Contreras picks off a guy - probably out, but I thought it was a tough overturn. Any one of these improbable occurrences doesn't happen, then who knows. This is not even mentioning how they left 14 guys on base, outhit them 14-9, and outhomered them 2-0.

We can kill Dusty. Dusty isn't the greatest manager out there. He seems to ignore analytics. Overuses his pitchers. But his teams perform for him.
Rally Monkey game, Bartman game, and now this one. It's gotta sting. He seems to be hit with bad luck. It's tough to blame him for this one.

The Nationals made a lot of dumb decisions. Wieters moves up on pitches way too much, hence getting interference called, and getting knocked in the head. Werth is just horribly awful in the outfield, He is a Schwarber equalizer on defense. No reason to be leaning too far off base in that situation = don't get picked off. Both teams were terrible with LOB, 15 and 19.

Can you point to an egregiously bad decision he made that cost him the game? The most idiotic thing he did to me was challenging the first play- that was Marc Trestman like. But many people would argue Joe managed the game as poorly as Dusty. If the pickoff doesn't happen and Wade blows up in the 8th, that decision to blow the whole pen and then put him in the 7th would be second guessed forever. You can also point to game 7 last year.

But Dusty's players horsefeathers up over and over.

Everyone loves to blame managers because everyone can second guess them. Most people have such limited understanding of basketball or football Xs and Os that they can't be second guessed to the same degree. But in the end, baseball managers are most important for team morale and motivation. Their in game decision making is overrated. Not to say its not important, but overrated in general.

Bringing in Scherzer was boneheaded

Andy · October 13, 2017

I would love to hear what people killing Joe for bullpen management last night would've done instead. When half the guys he puts in can't find the plate, his options become very limited.

Joe has had bad moments (most of Game 7 comes to mind, still love you Joe), but I don't think last night had any of them.

Bote McBoteface · October 13, 2017

There are way too many examples of Dusty horsefeathering up this series to actually name them all. Joe wasn't perfect either, but im almost certain that if these two teams had traded managers prior to the series, they would have also traded outcomes.

jersey cubs fan · October 13, 2017

I would love to hear what people killing Joe for bullpen management last night would've done instead. When half the guys he puts in can't find the plate, his options become very limited.

Joe has had bad moments (most of Game 7 comes to mind, still love you Joe), but I don't think last night had any of them.

There was an argument to be made not to even use Carl at all, but at least he had the quick hook.

Sammy Sofa · October 13, 2017

I would love to hear what people killing Joe for bullpen management last night would've done instead. When half the guys he puts in can't find the plate, his options become very limited.

Joe has had bad moments (most of Game 7 comes to mind, still love you Joe), but I don't think last night had any of them.
There was an argument to be made not to even use Carl at all, but at least he had the quick hook.

Yeah, that was the biggest miracle of them all; for once Joe didn't wait until it was 3-4 AB's too late to pull a struggling beloved reliever.

biittner77 · October 13, 2017

There are way too many examples of Dusty horsefeathering up this series to actually name them all. Joe wasn't perfect either, but im almost certain that if these two teams had traded managers prior to the series, they would have also traded outcomes.

In some ways, I almost feel bad for Nat's fans. Not too long ago it was us throwing away great seasons and not able to get past the first round of the playoffs.

In other news, seems like everyone can't wait to predict Dodgers in 3 (see what they did there? How very droll)

Banedon · October 13, 2017

Jayson Werth got as many plate appearances as Rendon, and 18 more than Lind, Kendrick, and Goodwin combined

He let the Nationals blow a lead in the late innings without Madson or Doolittle pitching

He stacked the back half of the lineup with right handed hitters + Wieters (despite options like Lind and Goodwin) and never pinch hit for them, making it really easy to plan around in the late innings. Strop retiring 11 of 13 hitters in the series is not an accident.

Prior to game 5:

Did he consider sitting Werth in favor or another outfielder with the season on the line tonight?

“Well, I did consider it,” Baker said. “But, you know, Jayson has been a big-game guy most of his career. So, not being sentimental or anything, but trying to be a realist.

“Again, law of averages is on Jayson’s side, big time, again. You know, I’ve been Jayson, and so I might have had a fit if I wasn’t playing tonight.”

Hunter · October 13, 2017

Prior to game 5:

Did he consider sitting Werth in favor or another outfielder with the season on the line tonight?

“Well, I did consider it,” Baker said. “But, you know, Jayson has been a big-game guy most of his career. So, not being sentimental or anything, but trying to be a realist.

“Again, law of averages is on Jayson’s side, big time, again. You know, I’ve been Jayson, and so I might have had a fit if I wasn’t playing tonight.”

/facepalm

imb · October 13, 2017

Mojo: secretly zz thorn calling out the Dusty busters

i hope that guy is dead now irl

LeonDurham · October 13, 2017

Prior to game 5:

Did he consider sitting Werth in favor or another outfielder with the season on the line tonight?

“Well, I did consider it,” Baker said. “But, you know, Jayson has been a big-game guy most of his career. So, not being sentimental or anything, but trying to be a realist.

“Again, law of averages is on Jayson’s side, big time, again. You know, I’ve been Jayson, and so I might have had a fit if I wasn’t playing tonight.”

/facepalm

We know the "law of averages thing" is dumb and defies logic.

But Werth did go 2/4 with 2 walks last night. He wasn't the reason they lost. And he may not be a good defender, but that was a freak play. He lost it in the lights, which could've happened to a gold glover. It wasn't like Schwarbs butchering a ball.

Also, putting Scherzer in was not dumb. Everyone was expecting it because he's their second best pitcher. And he actually got 2 outs easily. If Weiters doesn't have a passed ball, was it still a horrible decision?

Ding Dong Johnson · October 13, 2017

I'm absolutely not buying Werth losing that ball in the lights. the replay showed him tracking the ball remarkably well the whole way. he just whiffed