Cubs add Chapman for Torres, et al. imb wishes we paid more

[JennieGarthAlgar]

I've said my piece and I'm truly sorry if its outraged anyone. I don't condone violence against women, or anyone really. I only suggest people actually look at the facts before coming to a judgement and saying someone "beats women" as if this is a trend and he just can't help himself. And also that I believe in second chances, as does Theo (whom everyone here trusts explicitly). Thats all. He wouldn't get a 3rd chance from me.

 

your inability or refusal to distinguish between having someone on your favorite team and wanting them cut into tiny pieces and shot into space is maybe as infuriating as your willingness to post pictures of a woman as justification for "IT WASN'T THAT BAD OF A CHOKING."

 

Seriously, your post should [expletive] off.

 

Cops were called to the scene -- but say they saw no evidence of injuries or even redness anywhere around her neck and chest.

In fact, the woman signed an affidavit that night saying she did not want to press charges against Chapman.

 

THIS MAN DESERVES TO DIE!

[jersey cubs fan]

That doesn't do anything for me. Aroldis did not take responsibility for his actions.

 

http://deadspin.com/aroldis-chapman-still-says-he-did-nothing-wrong-1775469754

 

“I didn’t do anything,” he said. “People are thinking that it’s something serious; I have not put my hands on anyone, didn’t put anyone in danger. Since I didn’t do anything like that, I’m not thinking about it. If I didn’t do anything, why should I think about it? That is in the past. Now, I’m thinking about more important things: my family, kids, my career.”

 

I mean, he literally says "I regret that I did not exercise better judgment and for that I am truly sorry". It's just words on a page so it doesn't undo anything that he did, but a small part of the irritation with Chapman was his lack of remorse. A professional hobby of mine is giving and evaluating apologies, and that's a pretty good one.

 

Really? He apologized for a lack of judgement, not for what he did. That's a classic no apologies apology. It's garbage.

[UMFan83]

So, anyways... Am I right that Eloy is pretty much the consensus number 1 in our org at this point of the season? Even if Gleyber was still around?

 

It depends, Happ is more polished, closer to the majors and plays a premium position. But I think Eloy's ceiling is much higher.

[Derwood]

This is an odd torch to bear

[Elrhino]

people always say that parents are the worst thing about youth sports. I put them at a tie with having to coach and pretend to be supportive of [expletive] kids. aroldis is that [expletive] kid.

 

I'll put aside the incident from December involving his girlfriend. I don't know what happened there ... will never know, because police didn't press charges and evidence wasn't brought out in court. It certainly doesn't look good, to say the least. I certainly wouldn't condone what has been reported.

 

But all the other stupid stuff that's been linked to him .... yeah, nothing surprising there. He's not like other kids in Latin America who get put into baseball camps as teenagers, put through the minor league systems in America for several years and given time to acclimate and adjust to being an American professional athlete. He's not even like other Cubans like Abreu who come to America in their mid-late 20s (or 30s in El Duque's case). Chapman lived in abject poverty in Cuba until he defected when he was 20, signed with the Reds and handed a $30 million contract at 21, and spent a whole whopping 3 months in their minor league system before being called up to the major leagues. All of his family, friends and support system were still left behind in Cuba. He has to be the face of the franchise in Cincinatti when he can't speak the language and probably didn't know where Cincinnati was on map a few months earlier (no one does). Meanwhile, every poor life decision he makes is reported in national media. I don't know too many people who are handling that well.

 

I know it's all cool to be "more morally outraged on the internet than thou" and all, but I think his situation is a little different than some American suburban brat who's a pain in the ass in little league because he's been told he's entitled to everything his entire life.

[Andy]

I've said my piece and I'm truly sorry if its outraged anyone. I don't condone violence against women, or anyone really. I only suggest people actually look at the facts before coming to a judgement and saying someone "beats women" as if this is a trend and he just can't help himself. And also that I believe in second chances, as does Theo (whom everyone here trusts explicitly). Thats all. He wouldn't get a 3rd chance from me.

 

your inability or refusal to distinguish between having someone on your favorite team and wanting them cut into tiny pieces and shot into space is maybe as infuriating as your willingness to post pictures of a woman as justification for "IT WASN'T THAT BAD OF A CHOKING."

 

Seriously, your post should [expletive] off.

 

Cops were called to the scene -- but say they saw no evidence of injuries or even redness anywhere around her neck and chest.

In fact, the woman signed an affidavit that night saying she did not want to press charges against Chapman.

 

THIS MAN DESERVES TO DIE!

You are doing a spectacularly awful job of making your point.

[UMFan83]

 

oh I'm about 99% certain he had to do this as part of the terms of the trade. I bet the Cubs insisted upon a jointly-approved, jointly-issued statement.

 

 

That might have been a Cubs condition, but Chapman had no incentive to agree to it. He never asked to be traded and from what I've read liked playing with the Yankees even if they weren't going to the postseason. Even if he was looking to finish the season with a contender, he could have said no to the condition because he didn't want to bring more attention to the situation or was put off that he was asked to do something highly unusual.

Edited July 25, 2016 by UMFan83

[jersey cubs fan]

you can't just put aside the one incident that defines his negatives. That's the whole point. And poverty doesn't explain away domestic violence.

[UMFan83]

This is an odd torch to bear

 

I know right? So what if he was so angry he went into his garage and fired his shotgun 8 times to scare the horsefeathers out of her, there are no marks on her! Who doesn't use gunshots in the general vicinity of a loved one in order to intimidate them?

Edited July 25, 2016 by UMFan83

[Ding Dong Johnson]

people always say that parents are the worst thing about youth sports. I put them at a tie with having to coach and pretend to be supportive of [expletive] kids. aroldis is that [expletive] kid.

 

I'll put aside the incident from December involving his girlfriend. I don't know what happened there ... will never know, because police didn't press charges and evidence wasn't brought out in court. It certainly doesn't look good, to say the least. I certainly wouldn't condone what has been reported.

 

But all the other stupid stuff that's been linked to him .... yeah, nothing surprising there. He's not like other kids in Latin America who get put into baseball camps as teenagers, put through the minor league systems in America for several years and given time to acclimate and adjust to being an American professional athlete. He's not even like other Cubans like Abreu who come to America in their mid-late 20s (or 30s in El Duque's case). Chapman lived in abject poverty in Cuba until he defected when he was 20, signed with the Reds and handed a $30 million contract at 21, and spent a whole whopping 3 months in their minor league system before being called up to the major leagues. All of his family, friends and support system were still left behind in Cuba. He has to be the face of the franchise in Cincinatti when he can't speak the language and probably didn't know where Cincinnati was on map a few months earlier (no one does). Meanwhile, every poor life decision he makes is reported in national media. I don't know too many people who are handling that well.

 

I know it's all cool to be "more morally outraged on the internet than thou" and all, but I think his situation is a little different than some American suburban brat who's a pain in the ass in little league because he's been told he's entitled to everything his entire life.

so, so far from the point...

[jersey cubs fan]

 

oh I'm about 99% certain he had to do this as part of the terms of the trade. I bet the Cubs insisted upon a jointly-approved, jointly-issued statement.

 

 

That might have been a Cubs condition, but Chapman had no incentive to agree to it. He never asked to be traded and from what I've read liked playing with the Yankees even if they weren't going to the postseason. Even if he was looking to finish the season with a contender, he could have said no to the condition because he didn't want to bring more attention to the situation or was put off that he was asked to do something highly unusual.

His incentive was to show he was willing to play nice with teams still unsure about how to deal with guys in this situation. It's going to be that much easier for his next team to justify signing him when they can point to formal apologies (especially when people somehow eat them up as going beyond what was required of him).

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I mean, he literally says "I regret that I did not exercise better judgment and for that I am truly sorry". It's just words on a page so it doesn't undo anything that he did, but a small part of the irritation with Chapman was his lack of remorse. A professional hobby of mine is giving and evaluating apologies, and that's a pretty good one.

 

Really? He apologized for a lack of judgement, not for what he did. That's a classic no apologies apology. It's garbage.

 

It could be better, but could be far worse, so above average. He's apologizing for his actions with the active 'sorry' and not for their effect or interpretation on or by others, that's the important thing in these cases, because again, they are all 100% empty talk.

[UMFan83]

 

oh I'm about 99% certain he had to do this as part of the terms of the trade. I bet the Cubs insisted upon a jointly-approved, jointly-issued statement.

 

 

That might have been a Cubs condition, but Chapman had no incentive to agree to it. He never asked to be traded and from what I've read liked playing with the Yankees even if they weren't going to the postseason. Even if he was looking to finish the season with a contender, he could have said no to the condition because he didn't want to bring more attention to the situation or was put off that he was asked to do something highly unusual.

His incentive was to show he was willing to play nice with teams still unsure about how to deal with guys in this situation. It's going to be that much easier for his next team to justify signing him when they can point to formal apologies (especially when people somehow eat them up as going beyond what was required of him).

 

valid point

[JennieGarthAlgar]

This is an odd torch to bear

 

I know right? So what if he was so angry he went into his garage and fired his shotgun 8 times to scare the [expletive] out of her, there are no marks on her!

 

I'm not defending what he did, I just find it unfair to label him the way he's been labeled based on what we know. People are making it seem like he nearly killed someone. What he did was wrong and [expletive] crazy, no doubt about it. Too much alcohol can make good people do bad things. I just don't know if that makes him a 100% evil person, but I don't know enough. I'll take a self-imposed break from the board, I hope you all will find it in your hearts to give me a second chance.

[jersey cubs fan]

I mean, he literally says "I regret that I did not exercise better judgment and for that I am truly sorry". It's just words on a page so it doesn't undo anything that he did, but a small part of the irritation with Chapman was his lack of remorse. A professional hobby of mine is giving and evaluating apologies, and that's a pretty good one.

 

Really? He apologized for a lack of judgement, not for what he did. That's a classic no apologies apology. It's garbage.

 

It could be better, but could be far worse, so above average. He's apologizing for his actions with the active 'sorry' and not for their effect or interpretation on or by others, that's the important thing in these cases, because again, they are all 100% empty talk.

The problem is he's not apologizing at all for his actions, but for his lack of better judgement (and for that, and that alone, is he truly sorry)

[UMFan83]

This is an odd torch to bear

 

I know right? So what if he was so angry he went into his garage and fired his shotgun 8 times to scare the [expletive] out of her, there are no marks on her!

 

I'm not defending what he did, I just find it unfair to label him the way he's been labeled based on what we know. People are making it seem like he nearly killed someone. What he did was wrong and bat [expletive] crazy, no doubt about it. Too much alcohol can make good people do bad things. I just don't know if that makes him a 100% evil person, but I don't know enough. I'll take a self-imposed break from the board, I hope you all will find it in your hearts to give me a second chance.

 

Sorry I cannot dismiss firing a shotgun off to intimidate something you're fighting with as something drunk people just do sometimes.

 

I completely believe in second chances, but I also completely believe that if you do something so dumb and so violent it is a cross you should have to bear for a good while. It doesn't get erased from your record after 8 months because you apologized a couple of times.

[jersey cubs fan]

This is an odd torch to bear

 

I know right? So what if he was so angry he went into his garage and fired his shotgun 8 times to scare the [expletive] out of her, there are no marks on her!

 

I'm not defending what he did, I just find it unfair to label him the way he's been labeled based on what we know. People are making it seem like he nearly killed someone. What he did was wrong and bat [expletive] crazy, no doubt about it. Too much alcohol can make good people do bad things. I just don't know if that makes him a 100% evil person, but I don't know enough. I'll take a self-imposed break from the board, I hope you all will find it in your hearts to give me a second chance.

100% evil is a bit beyond the threshold I require to think somebody isn't good people.

[David]

 

I know right? So what if he was so angry he went into his garage and fired his shotgun 8 times to scare the [expletive] out of her, there are no marks on her!

 

I'm not defending what he did, I just find it unfair to label him the way he's been labeled based on what we know. People are making it seem like he nearly killed someone. What he did was wrong and bat [expletive] crazy, no doubt about it. Too much alcohol can make good people do bad things. I just don't know if that makes him a 100% evil person, but I don't know enough. I'll take a self-imposed break from the board, I hope you all will find it in your hearts to give me a second chance.

 

Sorry I cannot dismiss firing a shotgun off to intimidate something you're fighting with as something drunk people just do sometimes.

 

I completely believe in second chances, but I also completely believe that if you do something so dumb and so violent it is a cross you should have to bear for a good while. It doesn't get erased from your record after 8 months because you apologized a couple of times.

 

was it an actual shotgun? that's even crazier than what i pictured.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I've had people close to me who may as well have been Chapman's girlfriend. one of them took more than a decade before she had enough and left and confided in others about everything that had happened to her. she didn't always have red marks or bruises or black eyes, in fact I can't remember a single time when I saw any on her. she also had police show up one time and insist that no charges be filed. that doesn't mean her ex wasn't a huge piece of garbage. I don't know what Aroldis is like at home, but I'm not at all ready to give him the benefit of doubt.

[Cubbie Swagger]

As David touched on, there are plenty of pro athletes who aren't very good people. I'd be willing to bet there are a few players on the Cubs roster that have put their hands on a woman in their life. You root for them. But, it's Aroldis that was the subject of a highly publicized police investigation, so he's the one that we hate.

 

To me it's kinda like the steroid issue. We'll never know who got away with it, and they certainly aren't better people than the ones that got caught.

 

This is pro sports, and the goal is to win. You have to compartmentalize your personal feelings and morals.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

 

Really? He apologized for a lack of judgement, not for what he did. That's a classic no apologies apology. It's garbage.

 

It could be better, but could be far worse, so above average. He's apologizing for his actions with the active 'sorry' and not for their effect or interpretation on or by others, that's the important thing in these cases, because again, they are all 100% empty talk.

The problem is he's not apologizing at all for his actions, but for his lack of better judgement (and for that, and that alone, is he truly sorry)

 

I realize that I've brought this upon myself, but the separation you're making between his 'judgment' and his 'actions' is perplexing. They're inextricable.

 

But I'll leave it with again reiterating that any apology is not going to come across as 100% sincere, one because it probably isn't, and two because even if it was it can't be in this medium. No statement, statement, statement with different words, it's going to be criticized as insincere no matter what. Given that curve, it avoided some of the worst problems that come with these apologies, so it's pretty good for what it is. Chapman was and remains not a good person, and people remain justified in not liking his acquisition.

[Derwood]

 

I'm not defending what he did, I just find it unfair to label him the way he's been labeled based on what we know. People are making it seem like he nearly killed someone. What he did was wrong and bat [expletive] crazy, no doubt about it. Too much alcohol can make good people do bad things. I just don't know if that makes him a 100% evil person, but I don't know enough. I'll take a self-imposed break from the board, I hope you all will find it in your hearts to give me a second chance.

 

Sorry I cannot dismiss firing a shotgun off to intimidate something you're fighting with as something drunk people just do sometimes.

 

I completely believe in second chances, but I also completely believe that if you do something so dumb and so violent it is a cross you should have to bear for a good while. It doesn't get erased from your record after 8 months because you apologized a couple of times.

 

was it an actual shotgun? that's even crazier than what i pictured.

 

Yes, but the garage didn't press charges, so...

[Banedon]

Cool, he's sorry. He didn't say what he did. He didn't say he'd done anything or taken any action to prevent further issues in the future. Maybe some anger management counseling...

 

Handling the acquisition properly would've been to have not made it.

 

If you want to be upset at acquiring Chapman, feel free. I've said more than once that's more than justified. But at least acknowledge that there's not going to be a response that makes it right for you. The statement talks about working with his girlfriend to improve their relationship and raise their son together. That's just talk, but you can fake your way through anger management too. There was never going to be a meaningful sentiment behind a statement like this, but for what it is it hits the right notes.

 

All true except for the part about the right notes. I don't think it hit any notes.

[David]

As David touched on, there are plenty of pro athletes who aren't very good people. I'd be willing to bet there are a few players on the Cubs roster that have put their hands on a woman in their life. You root for them. But, it's Aroldis that was the subject of a highly publicized police investigation, so he's the one that we hate.

 

To me it's kinda like the steroid issue. We'll never know who got away with it, and they certainly aren't better people than the ones that got caught.

 

This is pro sports, and the goal is to win. You have to compartmentalize your personal feelings and morals.

 

you're real bad at this, plz don't reference me

[jersey cubs fan]

 

To me it's kinda like the steroid issue. We'll never know who got away with it, and they certainly aren't better people than the ones that got caught.

 

To me, it's very very different.