Cubs add Chapman for Torres, et al. imb wishes we paid more

[David]

I couldn't care less about his past. I just want to win it all. Give me nine Barry bonds out there and if we win I'm good.

 

My issue is, timely hitting (much like today with rizzo) is gonna win us a World Series. Not some reliever.

 

It's a huge upgrade to the pen, no doubt, but hitting the ball, like we didn't do against the mets last year, is what's going to win us the chip

 

Timely hitting isn't something you build a roster for. It's just luck, for lack of a better term. Well timed hits.

[JennieGarthAlgar]

If Rizzo and Lester are OK with it (Im assuming they would be consulted) along with Joe, then I'm fine with it, too. Plus it'll piss off Dusty.

I'd be shocked if Theo was consulting Rizzo & Lester (or any players really) on any deal. Maddon, sure.

 

You may be right, but I think Lester asked for that before signing here (to be consulted on potential big deals). And with any other guy I'd say you are 100% correct but when its a guy who already had an incident with Rizzo I would lean towards he at least ran it past him.

Edited July 25, 2016 by JennieGarthAlgar

[c3ci1]

Wow some of you posting in this thread are making me real sad. Don't give me this "well some players are bad people and you don't know about it" horse [expletive]. That's such a piss poor excuse. When you DO actually know about it, that's when you make the conscious decision to not root for (or in the FO's case, acquire) someone. As for "Well Florida never charged him crap: hi have you ever seen an athlete sex/domestic abuse scandal? They are rich and famous and like most celebrities in their position, get away without any actual criminal charges most of the time. Even without the celebrity factor, stuff like this goes uncharged, un-ivestigated, untried, and unpunished the majority of the time. I'm out for the rest of this crap. Do better, people. You're smarter than that.

 

Did you root for Starlin the last few years?

 

Honestly I never felt genuinely comfortable with him being a Cub after that. I'm glad they traded him.

 

What was the Starlin situation? I don't recall any off field stuff, just an abrupt performance drop-off when there were a lot of new SS options coming around.

Edited July 25, 2016 by c3ci1

[Liam Neeson]

 

Did you root for Starlin the last few years?

 

Honestly I never felt genuinely comfortable with him being a Cub after that. I'm glad they traded him.

 

What was the Starlin situation? I don't recall any off field stuff, just an abrupt slump when there were a lot of new SS options coming around.

 

Rape allegation and the night club shooting event.

[ctcf]

 

Did you root for Starlin the last few years?

 

Honestly I never felt genuinely comfortable with him being a Cub after that. I'm glad they traded him.

 

I respect your morals. I really do. But in a way you should stop cheering for a team then. Because you are cheering for some bad guys, no doubt. And you don't know which ones those are, yes, but just knowing that there are bad guys in a group and you cheer for the group doesn't make it any better.

 

I suppose you could make the argument that all 25 guys on a roster are close to squeaky clean. But then you are being naive.

 

Buddy, this is still lazy, stupid logic. I guess I should also never have friends, because some of them might be bad. I don't know what secretly goes on in their lives. They could be rapists or pedophiles or murderers. WHO KNOWS! You have to go through life trusting people and even befriending them without knowing what kind of person they might truly be. That said, you probably SHOULDN'T go around trusting and befriending people you KNOW to be those kinds of people.

[ctcf]

double post Edited July 25, 2016 by ctcf

[Transmogrified Tiger]

 

Did you root for Starlin the last few years?

 

Honestly I never felt genuinely comfortable with him being a Cub after that. I'm glad they traded him.

 

What was the Starlin situation? I don't recall any off field stuff, just an abrupt performance drop-off when there were a lot of new SS options coming around.

 

Castro was accused of sexual assault in early 2012. Nothing ever came of it from a legal perspective, he was questioned by police and no charges were ever filed.

[ctcf]

I feel sad and gross and tired. I'm outta here. Good luck folks.

[bcl412]

Wasn't there more gray area with what happened with Castro?

 

If we win it all, even if he gets the final out I'm just going to be happy that Cub fans and the players I like are happy and just ignore the horrible person who throws really, really hard.

[Old Style]

If Rizzo and Lester are OK with it (Im assuming they would be consulted) along with Joe, then I'm fine with it, too. Plus it'll piss off Dusty.

I'd be shocked if Theo was consulting Rizzo & Lester (or any players really) on any deal. Maddon, sure.

 

You may be right, but I think Lester asked for that before signing here (to be consulted on potential big deals). And with any other guy I'd say you are 100% correct but when its a guy who already had an incident with Rizzo I would lean towards he at least ran it past him.

Didn't David Price and Big Papi hate each other before the Sox signed Price this offseason?

[Rob]

Even if Chapman wasn't a turd of a human being, I wouldn't be in favor of trading Torres for him.

 

This is extremely disappointing.

[minnesotacubsfan]

I'm not going to debate morals. He (with Wood, Stoop, Rondon, Montgomery) gives us a nice bullpen and that's good.

 

How much we have to give up for 4.5 years of him is the big question for me

[David]

I'm not going to debate morals. He (with Wood, Stoop, Rondon, Montgomery) gives us a nice bullpen and that's good.

 

How much we have to give up for 4.5 years of him is the big question for me

 

whoa whoa whoa on including wood with that group

 

 

beep, beep, beep, back the truck up

[David]

Even if Chapman wasn't a turd of a human being, I wouldn't be in favor of trading Torres for him.

 

This is extremely disappointing.

 

even with the rumored 4/60 extension?

[JennieGarthAlgar]

I bet that IF we extend him it wont be for 4 years. 2 maybe.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Chris Sale shredded an entire roster's worth of uniforms, without thinking twice about the 5-7 year old kids who were paid 2 cents an hour to make them, but that wouldn't stop me from cheering him on.

[David]

Chris Sale shredded an entire roster's worth of uniforms, without thinking twice about the 5-7 year old kids who were paid 2 cents an hour to make them, but that wouldn't stop me from cheering him on.

 

oh what the hell you horsefeathering weirdo

[David]

official MLB account is reporting it

 

[tweet]

[/tweet]

[Brian]

yeah MLB AtBat app just sent me a push notification about it

[Bryants Disco Ball]

 

Honestly I never felt genuinely comfortable with him being a Cub after that. I'm glad they traded him.

 

I respect your morals. I really do. But in a way you should stop cheering for a team then. Because you are cheering for some bad guys, no doubt. And you don't know which ones those are, yes, but just knowing that there are bad guys in a group and you cheer for the group doesn't make it any better.

 

I suppose you could make the argument that all 25 guys on a roster are close to squeaky clean. But then you are being naive.

 

Buddy, this is still lazy, stupid logic. I guess I should also never have friends, because some of them might be bad. I don't know what secretly goes on in their lives. They could be rapists or pedophiles or murderers. WHO KNOWS! You have to go through life trusting people and even befriending them without knowing what kind of person they might truly be. That said, you probably SHOULDN'T go around trusting and befriending people you KNOW to be those kinds of people.

 

Big difference between friends and athletes. You get a much better opportunity to decide if your friend is a good person or not.

[philosophizer75]

In this day and age where information on everything is at our very fingertips, I find it disconcerting that the whisper of an allegation is all it takes before people start weighing in on either side of the line. An individual's popularity and your own personal opinions and morals don't make someone guilty or innocent of an action/crime.

 

None of us were present when Aroldis Chapman went from being an athlete to being an athlete with baggage. How can you be so vehemently against him as a human based on nothing but what other people who you haven't met have said about him? Its terrifying to me that groupthink and mass public opinions (which can vary on a whim and have the capability of being vastly far from the truth) can affect or even decide what kind of reactions and recourse come down on a person.

[Rob]

Even if Chapman wasn't a turd of a human being, I wouldn't be in favor of trading Torres for him.

 

This is extremely disappointing.

 

even with the rumored 4/60 extension?

 

Ignoring the morality of the situation for the moment...

 

I don't see the 4/60 extension as adding significant value to the deal. 4/60 is more or less market value. And while the certainty of having him under contract for that without duking it out for his services is worth something, I don't see it as adding enough to tip the scales.

 

If it was something like 3/40 with a vesting 4th year based on appearances, maybe that would add enough value to get me over the hump.

[Bryants Disco Ball]

I feel better that is seems safe to assume it won't just be for two months. Torres for two months just isn't enough.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Even if Chapman wasn't a turd of a human being, I wouldn't be in favor of trading Torres for him.

 

This is extremely disappointing.

 

even with the rumored 4/60 extension?

 

I don't like the idea of trading our top prospect for a rental. But I do get the feeling that there are going to be some more players going back and forth.

 

Just looking over today's minor league games, EJM didn't play in SB's game this afternoon. And while everyone needs a day off here and there, they didn't play yesterday, so there's a possibility.

[David]

Even if Chapman wasn't a turd of a human being, I wouldn't be in favor of trading Torres for him.

 

This is extremely disappointing.

 

even with the rumored 4/60 extension?

 

Ignoring the morality of the situation for the moment...

 

I don't see the 4/60 extension as adding significant value to the deal. 4/60 is more or less market value. And while the certainty of having him under contract for that without duking it out for his services is worth something, I don't see it as adding enough to tip the scales.

 

If it was something like 3/40 with a vesting 4th year based on appearances, maybe that would add enough value to get me over the hump.

 

i think he's worth more than his WAR total (which is already really high for a reliever) would suggest when you consider that he is as dominant as he is and you can pick and choose and put him in your highest leverage situations, thus adding a lot of win probability. 4/60 would be his value without even taking that into account.