Bulls 2015-16 Regular Season Thread 2.0

[UMFan83]

Pray for Jimmy

[dawson1989]

 

Based on watching only 1 Lakers game, Russell looks like a disaster.

 

He's improved steadily all season. Definitely not good but he's been decent since January started. Look at his supporting cast. He's got the biggest ball hog in the league and a bunch of trash. On an average team he'd be getting a few more assists and a few more open shots a game.

[Ryne Ween]

I don't know what to say about this team anymore. I recognize they were down a number of key guys, but they built a 20 pt lead in the 3rd quarter.

 

Hoiberg is so bad it's totally unlike anything I've ever seen in my life. He's like Trestman but without the offensive guru narrative.

 

They have a 20pt lead and he literally just stands there as they cough the game up. It makes absolutely no sense how bad he is. I'm at a loss. I didn't know a coach could be this horrible.

 

They did not, and I specifically paid attention to this , run a single offensive play in the last 6 minutes of the game.

 

the team defense is hilariously bad. They don't help and defend. They just foul. They just foul or give up good looks. It's one or the other.

 

The whole lot of this group the whole cabal of them needs to be fired immediately. They took a perennially tough out, top of the conference team team and turned it into a laughingstock joke that can't beat bad teams even when they are having a bad night.

 

They fired Thibs because he didn't respect the front office trying to coach from a skybox. They replaced him with an overmatched incompetent, intimidated child. And the results are predictable.

 

Fire Reinsdorfs kid, fire gar and pax and fire Hoiberg.

 

Hoiberg is and will always be a failure. If you don't see that now then it's just prolonging the pain. He sucks.

 

We had a great coach. We fired him because he was too good for us. We replaced him with a clown. The results are predictable.

[Sammy Sofa]

Well, the players all hated Thibs by the end, too, so there's that.

[Ryne Ween]

I don't believe that narrative. I believe that Gar was undermining him with the players and it may have had some effect of them tuning him out.

 

But they played hard all year, played much better than this year. Butlers comments earlier this year were basically "I want you to be more like thibs"

 

Thibs developed Butler Taj and Noah. I believe those guys would understand how important he was to their development.

 

I don't buy the players turning on Thibs. Plus who gives a horsefeathers. Players always hated Sloan. I'm sure players hate Popavich. Who cares. Thibs is a top 2-3 coach in the NBA and we fired him for no reasons.

 

He will get whatever job he wants next year and he will succeed in it.

[Sammy Sofa]

Believe whatever you want; they looked pretty done with him by the end of last season.

 

Hoiberg very well could be all wrong for this team, but the Thibodeau era ran its course and was clearly burnt out by the time he was bounced.

 

And Butler said nothing like, "I want the coach to be more like Thibs." He basically called Hoiberg out for being too laid back and called out the rest of the team for mostly playing like horsefeathers. There's a huge middle ground between being a pushover like Hoiberg and a freak like Thibodeau.

[dawson1989]

I don't believe that narrative. I believe that Gar was undermining him with the players and it may have had some effect of them tuning him out.

 

But they played hard all year, played much better than this year. Butlers comments earlier this year were basically "I want you to be more like thibs"

 

Thibs developed Butler Taj and Noah. I believe those guys would understand how important he was to their development.

 

I don't buy the players turning on Thibs. Plus who gives a [expletive]. Players always hated Sloan. I'm sure players hate Popavich. Who cares. Thibs is a top 2-3 coach in the NBA and we fired him for no reasons.

 

He will get whatever job he wants next year and he will succeed in it.

 

Thibs is a decent coach but top 2-3 in the league he certainly isn't. Pop, Kerr, Rivers, Carlisle ... then a group that Thibs is probably in.

[Sammy Sofa]

Thibodeau is way too one-sided to be considered one of the very best coaches in the game. He has his obvious strengths and is a good coach, but come on.

[Ryne Ween]

I don't believe that narrative. I believe that Gar was undermining him with the players and it may have had some effect of them tuning him out.

 

But they played hard all year, played much better than this year. Butlers comments earlier this year were basically "I want you to be more like thibs"

 

Thibs developed Butler Taj and Noah. I believe those guys would understand how important he was to their development.

 

I don't buy the players turning on Thibs. Plus who gives a [expletive]. Players always hated Sloan. I'm sure players hate Popavich. Who cares. Thibs is a top 2-3 coach in the NBA and we fired him for no reasons.

 

He will get whatever job he wants next year and he will succeed in it.

 

Thibs is a decent coach but top 2-3 in the league he certainly isn't. Pop, Kerr, Rivers, Carlisle ... then a group that Thibs is probably in.

 

Kerr has coached one year with an amazing amount of talent. Luke Walton is going as well or better. Jury out on Kerr vs thibs. Difficult to compare.

 

Rivers has had the most talented team in the NBA about a half dozen times over the last 10 seasons. He also had Thinbs next to him when he was making finals appearances. I consider him way overrated.

 

Carlisle is good I guess. Not sure how to rate him vs thibs because he's basically thibs with 10 more years of chances to win. Also he's enjoyed more talent than thibs has had as a head coach.

 

 

Bottom line I think thibs is arguable the second name of pick to coach my team. He instantly brings credibility to your team. He makes 3 journeymen on your team into 3-year contract caliber players. He instills a defensive philosophy that results in half of his heavy minute players being considered too defenders in the league (out of nowhere) and his offense results in pretty solid guard play. Everybody rebounds better than they had historically.

[UMFan83]

Where is this revisionist history [expletive] about the Bulls always playing hard under Thibs last year coming from?

 

This is the exact same horsefeathers they were doing last year. Losing to bad teams, uncharacteristically breaking down defensively, effort questioned, chemistry questioned. They even had a nearly identical stretch of malice in Jan-Feb last year as well.

 

I think this team, while possessing talent, is just poorly constructed.

[Cubswin11]

I don't believe that narrative. I believe that Gar was undermining him with the players and it may have had some effect of them tuning him out.

 

But they played hard all year, played much better than this year. Butlers comments earlier this year were basically "I want you to be more like thibs"

 

Thibs developed Butler Taj and Noah. I believe those guys would understand how important he was to their development.

 

I don't buy the players turning on Thibs. Plus who gives a [expletive]. Players always hated Sloan. I'm sure players hate Popavich. Who cares. Thibs is a top 2-3 coach in the NBA and we fired him for no reasons.

 

He will get whatever job he wants next year and he will succeed in it.

 

Thibs is a decent coach but top 2-3 in the league he certainly isn't. Pop, Kerr, Rivers, Carlisle ... then a group that Thibs is probably in.

Rivers shouldn't be anywhere close to being grouped with the top tier of coaches in the league. Off the top of my head Pop, Kerr, Carlisle, Vogel, Van Gundy, Spo, Stevens and Budenholzer are all better.

Edited February 6, 2016 by Cubswin11

[Sammy Sofa]

Where is this revisionist history [expletive] about the Bulls always playing hard under Thibs last year coming from?

 

This is the exact same [expletive] they were doing last year. Losing to bad teams, uncharacteristically breaking down defensively, effort questioned, chemistry questioned. They even had a nearly identical stretch of malice in Jan-Feb last year as well.

 

I think this team, while possessing talent, is just poorly constructed.

 

That's part of it, though as we've brought up multiple times, you've had key players regress or stagnate. Nobody was counting on Rose being anywhere near this bad if he could stay even remotely healthy, for McDermott to basically remain a non-entity and for Mirotic to not move forward at all from what he started to show last season. A healthy Rose and Mirotic seemed like good bets to keep this team chugging along with the other key parts they have, but now it's basically just Jimmy and a couple of decent older dudes and then a bunch of bodies most nights.

 

Like I said, Hoiberg very well could be a bad hire, but right now he's coaching a Frankenstein's monster of a team that's not really consistently good at anything. And I don't think Thibs being here would make much of a difference in the overall picture. The defense would be better at times, but the offense would be even worse.

[David]

Where is this revisionist history [expletive] about the Bulls always playing hard under Thibs last year coming from?

 

This is the exact same [expletive] they were doing last year. Losing to bad teams, uncharacteristically breaking down defensively, effort questioned, chemistry questioned. They even had a nearly identical stretch of malice in Jan-Feb last year as well.

 

I think this team, while possessing talent, is just poorly constructed.

 

That's part of it, though as we've brought up multiple times, you've had key players regress or stagnate. Nobody was counting on Rose being anywhere near this bad if he could stay even remotely healthy, for McDermott to basically remain a non-entity and for Mirotic to not move forward at all from what he started to show last season. A healthy Rose and Mirotic seemed like good bets to keep this team chugging along with the other key parts they have, but now it's basically just Jimmy and a couple of decent older dudes and then a bunch of bodies most nights.

 

Like I said, Hoiberg very well could be a bad hire, but right now he's coaching a Frankenstein's monster of a team that's not really consistently good at anything. And I don't think Thibs being here would make much of a difference in the overall picture. The defense would be better at times, but the offense would be even worse.

 

Best sports related post I've seen from you.

[muntjack]

but the offense would be even worse.

 

There is virtually no offense being run at all, so I'm not sure how anyone can say it would be worse under another coach. The player's would be worse at basic PnR? Isos? That's all they've been running out there, all season long. I agree that Hoiberg has a mess in his kitchen, but he's also a lousy chef.

[dawson1989]

I don't believe that narrative. I believe that Gar was undermining him with the players and it may have had some effect of them tuning him out.

 

But they played hard all year, played much better than this year. Butlers comments earlier this year were basically "I want you to be more like thibs"

 

Thibs developed Butler Taj and Noah. I believe those guys would understand how important he was to their development.

 

I don't buy the players turning on Thibs. Plus who gives a [expletive]. Players always hated Sloan. I'm sure players hate Popavich. Who cares. Thibs is a top 2-3 coach in the NBA and we fired him for no reasons.

 

He will get whatever job he wants next year and he will succeed in it.

 

Thibs is a decent coach but top 2-3 in the league he certainly isn't. Pop, Kerr, Rivers, Carlisle ... then a group that Thibs is probably in.

 

Kerr has coached one year with an amazing amount of talent. Luke Walton is going as well or better. Jury out on Kerr vs thibs. Difficult to compare.

 

Rivers has had the most talented team in the NBA about a half dozen times over the last 10 seasons. He also had Thinbs next to him when he was making finals appearances. I consider him way overrated.

 

Carlisle is good I guess. Not sure how to rate him vs thibs because he's basically thibs with 10 more years of chances to win. Also he's enjoyed more talent than thibs has had as a head coach.

 

 

Bottom line I think thibs is arguable the second name of pick to coach my team. He instantly brings credibility to your team. He makes 3 journeymen on your team into 3-year contract caliber players. He instills a defensive philosophy that results in half of his heavy minute players being considered too defenders in the league (out of nowhere) and his offense results in pretty solid guard play. Everybody rebounds better than they had historically.

 

Hahahahahahaha ... if he was the second best coach he wouldn't be unemployed

[Ryne Ween]

Where is this revisionist history [expletive] about the Bulls always playing hard under Thibs last year coming from?

 

This is the exact same [expletive] they were doing last year. Losing to bad teams, uncharacteristically breaking down defensively, effort questioned, chemistry questioned. They even had a nearly identical stretch of malice in Jan-Feb last year as well.

 

I think this team, while possessing talent, is just poorly constructed.

 

Last years team was a few plays away from probably getting to the ECF with a shot at a finals appearance. This years team will get its doors blown off in the first playoff series (if they get one). It's a huge regression with a more talented and seasoned group.

 

You can deny it but I'm not sure. Watching these games it's obvious they lack a solid coach. Hoiberg was certainly not deserving of getting a 5 year deal to coach a premier NBA team with a number of talented veteran players. It was a horrible reach of a hire.

 

The front office has gotten very lucky 4 times. 1.7%, Noah creating himself into an all-world energy player, they needed a coach at a time Thibs was the unanimous best available prospect, and then Butler developing into an all star. And remember they had to pressure themselves out of taking Beasley.

 

Basically those 4 things have enabled a terrible front office to have a 15 year run. They had so many opportunities to make this team a championship team and they continuously either were too conservative to make deals (too many to mention), too dumb to do the obvious (afflalo over Doug) or they just whiffed and settled (boozer).

 

They have done so little with so many opportunities for so long.

 

On the coaching side their myopic view of basketball finally has destroyed them. They grab a young ex bull player who they felt would do as instructed and everything would go great.

 

Fire Paxson right now. Fire Gar. Let the new guy come in and fire Hoiberg.

[Ryne Ween]

 

Thibs is a decent coach but top 2-3 in the league he certainly isn't. Pop, Kerr, Rivers, Carlisle ... then a group that Thibs is probably in.

 

Kerr has coached one year with an amazing amount of talent. Luke Walton is going as well or better. Jury out on Kerr vs thibs. Difficult to compare.

 

Rivers has had the most talented team in the NBA about a half dozen times over the last 10 seasons. He also had Thinbs next to him when he was making finals appearances. I consider him way overrated.

 

Carlisle is good I guess. Not sure how to rate him vs thibs because he's basically thibs with 10 more years of chances to win. Also he's enjoyed more talent than thibs has had as a head coach.

 

 

Bottom line I think thibs is arguable the second name of pick to coach my team. He instantly brings credibility to your team. He makes 3 journeymen on your team into 3-year contract caliber players. He instills a defensive philosophy that results in half of his heavy minute players being considered too defenders in the league (out of nowhere) and his offense results in pretty solid guard play. Everybody rebounds better than they had historically.

 

Hahahahahahaha ... if he was the second best coach he wouldn't be unemployed

 

He will be the lakers coach next year. Hell have a young talented core and they will be better then the Bulls for the next decade and he wil get to live in LA instead of Deerfield and he will never need to look at Gars face or Paxsons enormous bald head again.

[Sammy Sofa]

You're really ignoring how messed up the current team is. Noah's dead, no Duleavy, Rose is one of the worst players in basketball, Mirotic is just a guy; Thibs isn't a sorcerer who would have just magically fixed that.

[Derwood]

And the team has 18 power forwards

[muntjack]

Butler

Boozer

Belinelli

Deng

Noah

Hamilton

Robinson

Taj

Teague

Hinrich

Nazr

Cook

 

Thibs won 45 games and a playoff series with that roster. Keep in mind that's 8.6 PPG Jimmy. That team was 23rd in Ortg. Now they are 25th. Thibs has faults but he makes players better and holds players accountable. Hoiberg can not get upset or he will literally die.

[Ryne Ween]

You're really ignoring how messed up the current team is. Noah's dead, no Duleavy, Rose is one of the worst players in basketball, Mirotic is just a guy; Thibs isn't a sorcerer who would have just magically fixed that.

 

Are the advanced stats still saying rose sucks? To me (despite some horrendous play in key possessions and the Utah game) he's been playing quite well recently.

 

Pau has been playing great, Taj is ok, Butler has been an elite player. The team has some talent. Look at the other rosters in the east. We should be right behind Toronto and Cleveland. We are on a nosedive trajectory.

 

We are gonna get slaughtered tonight by Minnesota. This road trip has been a boon for the lower half of the western conference. When these jerks get back to Chicago I doubt anybody is still caring about this season.

[Sammy Sofa]

Are the advanced stats still saying rose sucks? To me (despite some horrendous play in key possessions and the Utah game) he's been playing quite well recently.

 

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rosede01.html#advanced::none

 

He improved in January to a little above average. That seems as about a realistic expectation as anyone should have for him at this point.

 

Pau has been playing great, Taj is ok, Butler has been an elite player. The team has some talent.

 

Yeah, you just listed almost all of it. It's a stank team. It likely wouldn't be much better with Thibs, if at all (especially since, again, the team hated him by the time he was fired).

[davell]

Rose is 224th in PER in the league, 56th among PG's. The last time I looked at it, I think his PER was in the mid 10's, it's now in the mid 12's. He certainly has played much better in 2016, than he did at the beginning of the season. I'm not sure how to factor PER(and am way too lazy to try) but if you look at him as a 16-17 PER type at this stage of his career, you're looking at him as a bottom half of the league starter. And I'd say that's probably what he's viewed as now.

[Sammy Sofa]

Butler

Boozer

Belinelli

Deng

Noah

Hamilton

Robinson

Taj

Teague

Hinrich

Nazr

Cook

 

Thibs won 45 games and a playoff series with that roster. Keep in mind that's 8.6 PPG Jimmy. That team was 23rd in Ortg. Now they are 25th. Thibs has faults but he makes players better and holds players accountable. Hoiberg can not get upset or he will literally die.

 

You don't think Thibs typically had Bulls teams better suited to his defensive strengths? What would he do this year, tie Noah to himself for some kind of human puppet trickery? Construct a decent SF out of clay and give it life with lightning?

 

Again, everyone was done with him; I think the idea that a FO could turn players on a coach as opposed to the players simply being fed up with the coach is silly. Thibs very much looks like a more talented Scott Skiles to me; any team he gets better win it all because otherwise (or, maybe even despite that) he'll probably be gone after 4-5 years because his team is sick of him. There's tough coaches, and then there's the hardass freaks that don't have a long shelf life with a team.

[Sammy Sofa]

Rose is 224th in PER in the league, 56th among PG's. The last time I looked at it, I think his PER was in the mid 10's, it's now in the mid 12's. He certainly has played much better in 2016, than he did at the beginning of the season. I'm not sure how to factor PER(and am way too lazy to try) but if you look at him as a 16-17 PER type at this stage of his career, you're looking at him as a bottom half of the league starter. And I'd say that's probably what he's viewed as now.

 

Pretty much. There's little reason at this point to expect him to break out again.