The Pitchers we can trade for....

[davell]

Dammit, he was the trade candidate I assumed we had the best shot at.

 

I don't have confidence Preller deals him. I've thought Atlanta was our top option, but now I'm doubting that too. I don't see Miller in our plans, but I kind of thought Teheran would be. Will they trade both? I kind of see them trading Miller and seeing if Teheran can rebuild value again.

 

That leaves Cleveland and I'm not sure they deal anyone either. Free Agent starting to seem much more likely to me, for our top acquisition and probably for our second guy as well.

[Post Count Padder]

Just spitballing here (or maybe skyballing), but with the talk of the Indians trading a starter, what would be the price tag on Kluber? He's a year older than Carrasco and more expensive but still has a pretty reasonable contract and his peripherals were solid again this year.

[Guest]

Just spitballing here (or maybe skyballing), but with the talk of the Indians trading a starter, what would be the price tag on Kluber? He's a year older than Carrasco and more expensive but still has a pretty reasonable contract and his peripherals were solid again this year.

 

Imagine if Arrieta were signed to a 5/36(plus 2 option years) deal, now imagine what you'd want in trade for Arrieta.

[davell]

Just spitballing here (or maybe skyballing), but with the talk of the Indians trading a starter, what would be the price tag on Kluber? He's a year older than Carrasco and more expensive but still has a pretty reasonable contract and his peripherals were solid again this year.

 

Schwarber, one of Javy or Soler, both of Edwards and Underwood, plus one of Almora/McKinney? With his contract, I've got no clue. They may want more than that for all I know.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

 

That's a neat tidbit, but I don't think Chapman belongs in this thread, given the title.

[Guest]

 

That's a neat tidbit, but I don't think Chapman belongs in this thread, given the title.

 

well, i'm pretty sure we CAN trade for him...we just probably shouldn't give up the guys it might take.

[Guest]

The coolest thing about Chapman is that he lives in a mansion but only inhabits one room.

 

His days as a starter are over.

[Guest]

Joe Ross? He's hitting the rumor rounds now.

 

Not sure why he'd be available but I like him quite a bit.

[Guest]

Joe Ross? He's hitting the rumor rounds now.

Sure, depending on what they want.

[Guest]

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I prefer Teheran to Miller, but outside of Grilli I'm not sure there's another compelling piece I'd want to add to Teheran to consider trading Soler.

[sneakypower]

maybe i'm unreasonable but i think i want a better pitcher than Miller or Teheran if i'm giving up Jorcules (Solercules?)

[MarkMero23]

Difference between Teheran and Miller is negotiable. Miller was significantly better last season (Almost a full run better in FIP). Career wise they've been pretty equal.

[Guest]

maybe i'm unreasonable but i think i want a better pitcher than Miller or Teheran if i'm giving up Jorcules (Solercules?)

Yeah, I want one of the Cleveland pitchers if I'm giving up Soler. I'm only interested in the Atlanta guys if they can be had for prospects.

[MarkMero23]

maybe i'm unreasonable but i think i want a better pitcher than Miller or Teheran if i'm giving up Jorcules (Solercules?)

I think you're overrating Soler quite a bit to think you'd do better than Miller and Teharan. Two very good cost controlled pitchers. I'm not even necessarily saying I'd do the trade, but you're not getting much better than that for Soler alone. He's talented but he's flawed.

[Guest]

maybe i'm unreasonable but i think i want a better pitcher than Miller or Teheran if i'm giving up Jorcules (Solercules?)

 

me too

[KrisBryantisaBeast]

I wonder what we would have to add with Soler to get both Miller and Teheren. If we got both it would then allow us to go all in on Heyward.

[Guest]

maybe i'm unreasonable but i think i want a better pitcher than Miller or Teheran if i'm giving up Jorcules (Solercules?)

I think you're overrating Soler quite a bit to think you'd do better than Miller and Teharan. Two very good cost controlled pitchers. I'm not even necessarily saying I'd do the trade, but you're not getting much better than that for Soler alone. He's talented but he's flawed.

 

are you saying miller AND teheran or miller OR teheran?

 

anyway, he's not necessarily saying they would do better. he's saying that if they can't, they shouldn't trade him.

[Guest]

I think you can logically say that Soler wasn't very productive last year, is always going to struggle with K's, has had recurring injuries, and is unlikely to ever be a defensive asset. With that in mind it'd be maximizing his value to get a player of Miller/Teheran's quality for him.

 

I also think you can logically point to Soler's performance/adjustment after returning from injury(.333/.451/.857/1.308, he also hit better in August than in any preceding month), along with his minor league performance and general prospect pedigree, as indicators that he is an all-star waiting to break out over a full season, and one that is only 23 years old and controlled through 2020. In that light, a solid but flawed pitcher like Miller or Teheran doesn't seem like quite enough.

 

Whether the Cubs(and any trading partners) lean towards the former or the latter will dictate if Soler is dealt. If it's the latter he's not getting traded for less than a big difference maker, a well above average player under team control for a while. If it's the former then I would guess he'll be dealt somewhat early in the offseason, or once the team can lock down an OF so they only have to fill one OF spot post-trade.

[Guest]

I wonder what we would have to add with Soler to get both Miller and Teheren. If we got both it would then allow us to go all in on Heyward.

 

is there even room in the rotation for both of them?

 

i don't know that i put teheran ahead of hendricks or hammel at this point.

[RammyFanny]

I know I shouldn't, but I still do the selective starting/endpoints thing with Soler and get scared at the thought of dealing him.

 

From 8/1 through the playoffs, he hit .303/.403/.560 in his final 37 games. I know he sucked the majority of the year, but it was still his first full season and I get scared once we trade him he goes full Stanton.

 

(Edit: I see TT pretty much just posted this)

[Guest]

I also think you can logically point to Soler's performance/adjustment after returning from injury(.333/.451/.857/1.308, he also hit better in August than in any preceding month), along with his minor league performance and general prospect pedigree, as indicators that he is an all-star waiting to break out over a full season, and one that is only 23 years old and controlled through 2020. In that light, a solid but flawed pitcher like Miller or Teheran doesn't seem like quite enough.

 

also this

 

http://baseballsavant.com/apps/hit_leader.php?game_date=&abs=70&sort=3,1&type=batter

 

and this

 

http://baseballsavant.com/apps/hit_leader.php?game_date=&abs=100&sort=3,1&type=batter

 

 

although i'm sure kyle will come in and poo poo it soon

 

edit - ugh just noticed those link to the same thing. won't let me direct link to the sort by avg. velo

Edited December 1, 2015 by David

[sneakypower]

maybe i'm unreasonable but i think i want a better pitcher than Miller or Teheran if i'm giving up Jorcules (Solercules?)

I think you're overrating Soler quite a bit to think you'd do better than Miller and Teharan. Two very good cost controlled pitchers. I'm not even necessarily saying I'd do the trade, but you're not getting much better than that for Soler alone. He's talented but he's flawed.

i just don't prize high-end pitching all that highly; Teheran seemed cool to add at the was-bad-at-everything-in-2015 discount

 

the consistent narrative i've been touting is just adding Heyward and having a relatively unassailable lineup that threatens for most runs in the league and even the steady but uninspiring, quality start machines like Hendricks/Leake/Hammel win a ton of games

 

Jason Heyward

Kris Bryant

Anthony Rizzo

Kyle Schwarber

Jorge Soler

Addison Russell

Castro / Baez

Montero / Contreras

 

yup, that lineup for sure wins the division like 4 of the next 5-6 seasons

[JennieGarthAlgar]

Does anyone feel there may be a benefit to waiting till mid-season to trade one of Baez or Soler in terms of increasing their value/buying low from a team that is out of the race early? Obviously there is a risk that there values will depreciate but it will allow us to give both a much needed half season to really understand further what they are worth/their potential impact to the team. If just one of them breaks out, they could be the centerpiece to getting a TOR instead of having to be packaged together.

 

So... you would be OK with letting Javy or Jorge tear up the first half and then ... trade them off? I mean... why? If either of those two "breaks out" and even sniff their potential then theres very, very few pitchers I would trade them for. Not to mention I would expect us to be another legitimate contender if either of them are playing well, so why risk messing with the clubhouse to bring in a guy who throws every 5th day?

 

I guess I could part with Jorge only because he is so cemented in a corner OF spot that we could reasonably replace. But if/when Javy breaks out you plug him in the lineup every day and if anyone suggests trading him you go right ahead and kick them in their parent's faces.

Edited December 1, 2015 by JennieGarthAlgar

[Clem Fandango]

If they want Soler, but they need to add more names into the mix with Teheran or Miller, what about one (or more) of their top prospects? I know he had a bad year this year, but I'd love to have Toussaint in the system. I also like Mallex Smith a bit as a sleeper CF option.

[JennieGarthAlgar]

If they want Soler, but they need to add more names into the mix with Teheran or Miller, what about one (or more) of their top prospects? I know he had a bad year this year, but I'd love to have Toussaint in the system. I also like Mallex Smith a bit as a sleeper CF option.

 

Because trading your top prospects doesn't fit the rebuilding playbook? Wouldn't that be like Beane asking for Theo to include Edwards or Almora in the Russell deal last year? Yeah, you can ask, but no, we aren't interested in trading any of our Top 10 or whatever, lets get the deal done with cash or lower level lottery tickets