Cubs Mets deal inevitable?

[SouthSideRyan]

Top 5 position players for reference:

 

2014

1. Buxton - injury issues since '13, hasn't replicated that success since.

2. Bogaerts - who knows what happened here

3. Taveras - DEAD

5. Baez - well, he's less dead than Taveras

6. Sano - hitting pretty crappily at AA

 

2013

1. Profar - out for his 2nd consecutive season

3. Taveras - Yep, still dead

4. Myers - terrible last year, back to mashing this year

8. Bogaerts - see above

9. Sano - see above

 

Lost it.

 

Yeah, that was my motivation more than anything else.

[SABR Gamer]

So now its time to play Baseball Mogul wanna be GM. What deal do YOU do with the Mets!!!!!?!?!

 

And YES I am a fan of flipping castro to another team, and have La Stella hold down 2b till Javy gets right.

 

btw... whats La Stella's timeline?

 

You gotta give something to get something, right!?!

 

Anyways....

 

Castro, Almora, and Gleyber Torres

 

for...

 

Syndergaard, Matz, and one of the Torres Relievers

So...a top 10-15 shortstop on a great contract, a top 50 and a top 75 prospect for two pitching prospects and a reliever?

 

I'm going to go with no.

 

Syndergaard is #11 in all of MLB in 2015 rankings

Matz is #65

 

Almora is #56

Torres isnt even on the top 100 list.

 

This is not a big strech.

 

Yeah, how a player has played this year clearly doesn't matter. Obviously the baseball world still thinks Gleyber is not a top-100 guy...lol.

 

And Almora?

 

Is meh, but I already think Starlin + Gleyber > Thor + Matz. Pitchers...

[The-Kris-Bryant]

Top 5 position players for reference:

 

2014

1. Buxton - injury issues since '13, hasn't replicated that success since.

2. Bogaerts - who knows what happened here

3. Taveras - DEAD

5. Baez - well, he's less dead than Taveras

6. Sano - hitting pretty crappily at AA

 

2013

1. Profar - out for his 2nd consecutive season

3. Taveras - Yep, still dead

4. Myers - terrible last year, back to mashing this year

8. Bogaerts - see above

9. Sano - see above

 

2012

1. Harper - there we go

3. Trout - there we go

6. Montero - oops

7. Profar - see above

9. Machado - stud

 

Previous years sprinkle in Domonic Brown, some more Monetro, and Desmond Jennings, but yeah.

Any particular reason you skipped:

 

1. Kris Bryant 3b Cubs

2. Byron Buxton of Twins

3. Addison Russell ss Cubs

4. Carlos Correa ss Astros

5. Corey Seager ss Dodgers

 

Verdicts still out on all of them. But the same should be said for the '13 and '14 lists. This being said, I'm not sure why they're fixating on lists where most of the guys still have a chance (with one obvious exception,) when they could go back a few years and find that for every Joe Mauer , there's an Ian Stewart. For every Felix Hernandez, there's an Edwin Jackson.

the jury is still out on all of them...

 

Except Taveras unfortunately

[Banedon]

It sounds like it may not matter...the Mets don't wanna trade their young pitching...

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/harper-mets-starting-show-cracks-article-1.2221585

 

The other point made is that this team is locked in at positions all around the diamond, with the obvious exception of shortstop.

 

“That’s really about the only place where we could make a change,” a Mets decision-maker said. “And we’ve been down that road already and nothing’s really changed.”

 

In other words, the Mets aren’t trading for Troy Tulowitzki, even if the Rockies decided they were ready to deal him, due to the injury risk, the $100 million-plus he’s owed on his contract and all the young pitching Colorado would ask for in return.

 

If anything, the Mets seem more determined now than ever to hold onto their best young pitchers, now that Noah Syndergaard made an impressive major-league debut here on Tuesday night, and Steven Matz is dominating hitters in Triple-A.

 

“We’ve waited this long for them,” said one Mets’ person. “It would seem almost foolish to trade them now.”

[sontensei]

It sounds like it may not matter...the Mets don't wanna trade their young pitching...

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/harper-mets-starting-show-cracks-article-1.2221585

 

The other point made is that this team is locked in at positions all around the diamond, with the obvious exception of shortstop.

 

“That’s really about the only place where we could make a change,” a Mets decision-maker said. “And we’ve been down that road already and nothing’s really changed.”

 

In other words, the Mets aren’t trading for Troy Tulowitzki, even if the Rockies decided they were ready to deal him, due to the injury risk, the $100 million-plus he’s owed on his contract and all the young pitching Colorado would ask for in return.

 

If anything, the Mets seem more determined now than ever to hold onto their best young pitchers, now that Noah Syndergaard made an impressive major-league debut here on Tuesday night, and Steven Matz is dominating hitters in Triple-A.

 

“We’ve waited this long for them,” said one Mets’ person. “It would seem almost foolish to trade them now.”

 

Yeah they dont, they probably would deal Colon but thats about it. Perhaps if the money and injury risk was a bit lower they would consider? who knows.

[Guest]

do not take that to imply that i agree with that dumb post

 

oh you guys with your insane who needs pitching thingy. i don't get it. castro's pretty decent, he's definitely the best shortstop born in monte christi in 1990 or something like that.

[UK1679666180]

This type of trade is as common as a prospect for prospect trade.

 

I'm just hoping the Cubs are buyers mid Summer.

 

The main debate I'm struggling with is whether or not the Cubs are good enough to be trading prospects to improve the current club.Im leaning towards keeping the farm and going with what they have.

[SouthSideRyan]

This type of trade is as common as a prospect for prospect trade.

 

I'm just hoping the Cubs are buyers mid Summer.

 

The main debate I'm struggling with is whether or not the Cubs are good enough to be trading prospects to improve the current club.Im leaning towards keeping the farm and going with what they have.

 

Because 2022 is what's most important.

[Tracer Bullet]

i don't see why they're not proven enough...Syndergaard and Matz have proven full well they're very good at getting hitters out (2.4 WAR ZiPS projection for 26 GS, 2.2 WAR for 25 GS)

 

also, Castro's currently sitting at replacement level despite .330 BABIP

 

When you're giving up big time position assets and are seemingly able to pull 2 win pitchers out of a hat, that projection(and the fact that it's a projection) isn't probably enough.

 

I mean sure, if they wanted to trade Thor and Matz in a package for Castro you're starting to get somewhere, but most Met-based conversations are still trying to figure out why Niese isn't enough for him.

 

You're so pot-committed on Castro, you just can't get away from your hand, can you?

 

I'd ask you the same thing.

 

if the Mets front office has an aneurysm and offers you Thor straight up for Castro, you take it. You take it and you hide your shame because of your "who needs pitching?" nonsense.

Yeah [expletive] no dude

Just when I'm starting to think about keeping Tapatalk, you make this post.

 

it really was the perfect post. almost unreadable on the forum but in tapatalk, it looks beautiful even down to the visible curse word.

[Guest]

You're not helping the case for tapatalk there.

[Tracer Bullet]

do not take that to imply that i agree with that dumb post

 

oh you guys with your insane who needs pitching thingy. i don't get it. castro's pretty decent, he's definitely the best shortstop born in monte christi in 1990 or something like that.

 

the gulf between "who needs pitching" and what you're proposing is larger than mother russia you commie

[UK1679666180]

It's about the names likely to be available and what they will cost as well as how good the Cubs will be even with them.

 

Is Cue to worth possibly losing him next year to a higher bidder? Same with Kazmir. Is Harang worth anything? Is Hamels worth the idiocy from Philly plus his contract?

 

Solid hyperbole though.

[imb]

well now its a mute point

[Guest]

It's about the names likely to be available and what they will cost as well as how good the Cubs will be even with them.

 

Is Cue to worth possibly losing him next year to a higher bidder? Same with Kazmir. Is Harang worth anything? Is Hamels worth the idiocy from Philly plus his contract?

 

Solid hyperbole though.

I think it will depend on how much improvement we see from Bryant/Soler/Russell as the season goes along. If they're rocking, then the team is probably good enough to be serious contenders with an upgrade at 4/5 in the rotation. I'm assuming "Cue" is Cueto - yes, he's worth a trade. But I'd pretty much hate the idea of facing Baez 19 times a year if he gets things figured out. If they're willing to do Almora & CJ? Sure, bring him on!

[Guest]

do not take that to imply that i agree with that dumb post

 

oh you guys with your insane who needs pitching thingy. i don't get it. castro's pretty decent, he's definitely the best shortstop born in monte christi in 1990 or something like that.

 

the gulf between "who needs pitching" and what you're proposing is larger than mother russia you commie

 

what am i proposing? i'm confused. of course i want there to be a huge gulf between what you rascals think and what actually happens.

[UK1679666180]

It's about the names likely to be available and what they will cost as well as how good the Cubs will be even with them.

 

Is Cue to worth possibly losing him next year to a higher bidder? Same with Kazmir. Is Harang worth anything? Is Hamels worth the idiocy from Philly plus his contract?

 

Solid hyperbole though.

I think it will depend on how much improvement we see from Bryant/Soler/Russell as the season goes along. If they're rocking, then the team is probably good enough to be serious contenders with an upgrade at 4/5 in the rotation. I'm assuming "Cue" is Cueto - yes, he's worth a trade. But I'd pretty much hate the idea of facing Baez 19 times a year if he gets things figured out. If they're willing to do Almora & CJ? Sure, bring him on!

I cant see Baez being the key piece for him. That's not even what Texas gave up for Garza.

 

If they give up anything between what Texas gave up for Garza and what Oakland gave up for Samardzija and Hammel (which I think it would closer to), I don't think it would be worth it.

 

I imagine Kazmir's trade value is similar to Garza's.

[SouthSideRyan]

It's about the names likely to be available and what they will cost as well as how good the Cubs will be even with them.

 

Is Cue to worth possibly losing him next year to a higher bidder? Same with Kazmir. Is Harang worth anything? Is Hamels worth the idiocy from Philly plus his contract?

 

Solid hyperbole though.

 

Nobody's talking about giving up Bryant-Russell-Soler here.

 

It's like you've forgotten what it's like to root for a team that isn't terrible. Oh, no we'll have to give up a non-elite prospect or 2 to improve our chances of winning a World Series. The horror.

[Guest]

Perhaps my issue is that I still look at Baez as an elite prospect.

[SouthSideRyan]

The Garza trade turned out to be 3 relievers and the 3B version of Andy Shipman. I think we can go a long ways past that and not affect our future chances.

[Rob]

Maybe we should trade Rizzo for pitching. We can always reacquire Bryan LaHair to hold the fort until Vogelbach is ready.

[TruffleShuffle]

Castro for Snydergaard wouled do it for me.

 

Even when Thor's elbow explodes in the next year?

 

Why is that going to happen?

Because pitchers

 

syndergaard did spend time on the DL last season with a flexor strain in his elbow (often a precursor to TJS), but the chances that derwood actually knew this when he posted is roughly on par with the chances of derwood not getting explosive diarrhea after eating fast food.

[SouthSideRyan]

Hmmmm, Truffle poop joke, or Derwood not washing his hands after joke...

[TruffleShuffle]

i don't see why they're not proven enough...Syndergaard and Matz have proven full well they're very good at getting hitters out (2.4 WAR ZiPS projection for 26 GS, 2.2 WAR for 25 GS)

 

also, Castro's currently sitting at replacement level despite .330 BABIP

 

When you're giving up big time position assets and are seemingly able to pull 2 win pitchers out of a hat, that projection(and the fact that it's a projection) isn't probably enough.

 

I mean sure, if they wanted to trade Thor and Matz in a package for Castro you're starting to get somewhere, but most Met-based conversations are still trying to figure out why Niese isn't enough for him.

 

You're so pot-committed on Castro, you just can't get away from your hand, can you?

 

Such is the luxury of believing in Castro, the above average shortstop getting paid peanuts until we're both dead.

 

And I've only been talking about this in terms of absolute value, others have touched on it but isn't the point of making that trade getting better immediately too? ROS who's better, Castro or Thor? ZiPS doesn't see a huge difference either way. So then you're left to compare ROS with Wood/Wada/etc v. whoever plays 2B(Baez/Alcantara/TLS), while also keeping in mind that there's not as much buffer for Russell slumping/failing. There's enough moving pieces that depending on how you want to round the Cubs come out ahead, but we're not talking about big gains here, certainly not enough to make such a seismic change to the current and immediate future roster.

 

This is why Castro for pitching prospects is really a bad proposition. Baez for Syndergaard would make a lot more sense as you offload similar bust risk and future control, and you actually upgrade the team in the short run too. I'm not sure if that's my preferred move to make with the chips they have, but it's a lot more agreeable than throwing away Castro's future value for a short term upgrade you have to squint to see.

 

i think this is pretty underrated in the discussion of castro. baez is pretty clearly not somebody who can be counted on at this stage, la stella isn't a SS, alcantara could probably play a lousy SS, but basically if russell gets hurt or craps the bed, you're stuck with hoping that baez doesn't hit like the black hole he was last season. considering that russell is 21 years old and is sporting a 4% walk rate and a 41% strikeout rate, i'd really prefer to not have him be the best realistic option at shortstop.

[sontensei]

not sure what it takes but thor was mega impressive. i was at that game behind home plate. that dude is the real deal. if we can get him its worth it even if he needs TSJ in 2 years. ofc dont give away the entire farm, but he is the type of guy who reminds me of wood/prior in terms of nasty.

[RammyFanny]

not sure what it takes but thor was mega impressive. i was at that game behind home plate. that dude is the real deal. if we can get him its worth it even if he needs TSJ in 2 years. ofc dont give away the entire farm, but he is the type of guy who reminds me of wood/prior in terms of nasty.

That's how they lure you in.