Petition to not spend resources on more relievers

[jersey cubs fan]

They all suck anyway.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Denied

[davell]

It'd depend on the price tag of Soriano and if it'd keep us from adding other stuff prior to the deadline. If Grimm and Ramirez aren't out long, I don't know if spending a bunch on Soriano makes sense(isnt he wanting 10+ per still?). I know the pen is frustrating as all [expletive] right now, but if both are back within a month(plus Wada), is it a good idea to spend that heavily on Soriano? Again, no idea if its reasonable to expect Ramirez back in that time frame or not.

[treebird]

i am not optimistic about ramirez at all, certainly not in the next month.

[CyHawk_Cub]

I'm just going to assume Ramirez is done for the year. Shoulder issues just worry the #### out of me. Didn't Grimm suffer from forearm pain or something? Should we be anticipating TJS for him soon too? #### pitchers...but too bad we still need them.

[Cubswin11]

I'm just going to assume Ramirez is done for the year. Shoulder issues just worry the #### out of me. Didn't Grimm suffer from forearm pain or something? Should we be anticipating TJS for him soon too? #### pitchers...but too bad we still need them.

Grimm is already pitching in EXST, I believe. But yeah, Ramirez is dead in my eyes

[Clem Fandango]

i am not optimistic about ramirez at all, certainly not in the next month.

 

Same. Shoulder injuries never seem to end well. They always seem to lead to surgery or vastly diminished stuff for those who avoid it. Obviously hoping for the best, but any sort of shoulder injury never leaves me thinking things are going to come up roses in the end.

 

That said, spending millions of dollars on Soriano because of a handful of games is a bit of a knee jerk reaction. He hasn't exactly been a shut down reliever himself for a couple years now. ERA's the past two seasons have been 3.11 and 3.19 with FIP's of 3.65 and 3.08. That's fine and well for a middle reliever, and certainly represents an upgrade over Schlitter and the like, but he's gonna ask for closer money, he's 35, and his velocity has gone down each year since 2009. It was 91.2 last year. If he continues the trend, I'd prefer to spend several million dollars on a guy who can consistently hit higher than that. He also barely threw his two seamer and cutter last season . He was primarily a 4 seamer and slider pitcher. According to Pitch f/x, when he was with the Rays and Yankees his cutter usage was up in the upper 40% and 50%. It was 5% last season. I doubt that was organizational philosophy (his last year with the Yankees, cutter usage was down to 11.4%, which carried over to his Nationals stint in 2013 [11.9%]). Pitch f/x says his cutter is still decent, but his slider has negative value (and has for the past 3 seasons), yet he's throwing his cutter less and his slider more. His cutter averaged 89.5 last season, perhaps the loss in velocity has led to a lack of faith in his cutter. Either way, he's basically a two pitch pitcher now, and only one of them is of any value (4 seamer).

 

Yes, Soriano represents an upgrade over guys like Schlitter, but they are there because of some injuries to Grimm and Wada and Ramirez. While I'm not as optimistic about Ramirez, Grimm and Wada should have better odds for decent results (knock on wood), and Wada should be back very soon which will almost certainly remove Schlitter from the roster and get rid of one headache. We shouldn't throw in the towel and go to drastic measures like signing a 35 year old guy who is going to need to report to extended spring training for at least a week or so before getting back into game action for $10 mil if that's indeed what he's demanding. Let's see what Wada can do when he gets brought back, and wait for the returns on Grimm and/or Ramirez before looking for bullpen help. Perhaps by then Vogelbach has boosted his value up and he can be packaged with other expendables for a reliever if need be

[Sammy Sofa]

I don't want to spend this kind of money on relievers, but I'm also very scared that Ramirez is basically dead.

[Guest]

Getting Grimm and Wada healthy in the short term should help. Hopefully in the intermediate term someone from the minors like Rivero or maybe Edwards looks good enough to add to the mix.

 

While on the topic of the pen though, I'd really like to see Rosscup's role continue to grow. As long as he's throwing strikes he's gonna be real good, and he's throwing strikes now. I'd rather him be the 3rd reliever in the pecking order behind Rondon/Strop than any of the other present options.

[Neuby]

wrong thread Edited April 24, 2015 by Neuby

[toonsterwu]

I lean this way as well, for now. Soriano really struggled at times with the Nationals, and unless he comes cheap ... I don't know if I want to spend big on him. You don't need to spend big on the pen, as the Dodgers finally realized with their new leadership. I mean, if we were one solid pen piece away and adding someone that felt a bit safer ... I might feel differently, but the options on the table right now aren't great. I mean, let's work through our options at this early stage. Honestly ... give Edwin Jackson more run out of the pen if need be. If Michael Jensen keeps performing well and has his old power stuff, give him a look. If absolutely necessary, there's always James Russell (I.C.E.)

 

I'm a bit more concerned about how our starters aren't going deep enough, with only Arrieta averaging more than 6IP per start. If Lester settles in, things look a bit better, but that's a lot of pressure on a pen that's banged up.

[Clem Fandango]

Some of those starts not going deep have totally been a result of Maddon pulling guys early, keeping pitch counts low. Perhaps he's saving their arms for the long haul, but I don't think letting them reach 100 pitches will kill them in the end. He pulled Hendricks at 90 pitches today. He gave up a runner or two but he has to gain the resiliency to get out of jams like that if he's going to succeed, and I would've been much more comfortable giving him the opportunity to get out of the jam as opposed to bringing in Jaxon or Schlitter or Coke to bail him out. And his last start he had gone 6 while giving up 2 earned runs and he got pulled after 81 pitches. He could've potentially reached the 8th inning before reaching 100 pitches. I think it's time to take the kid gloves off of Hendricks. He threw 147 innings in 2012. 166 in 2013, and 180 in 2014. He's on an appropriate schedule to reach 200 innings this year. He doesn't need to be babied.

 

Sorry, went on a mini rant there.

[KaiserCesar]

I have to think Maddon is playing to the roster with pulling the starters early. It's seems he's trying to limit innings whenever he has a lot of relievers available and the pitcher has gone through the order 3 times already since it's the best opportunity to do so.

 

He made comments about saving players for the postseason when talking about the benefits of having three catchers, so that leads me to suspect the long-term workload is always part of his calculus.

[Little Slide Rooter]

not sure what you mean by resources. Nobody's looking to dangle Schwarber here. But if we can get, say Soriano for cheap, or Broxton for something we'd never miss, we could use the upgrade. Who knows when Ramirez and Grimm will be back, and there's really nothing in Iowa that promises to be any better than Schlitter and Coke.

[jersey cubs fan]

Motion passes