Mets fans thoughts on potential trade

[ConstableRabbit]

Why wouldn't we be excited? :S

Because pitchers get hurt. A lot.

[jersey cubs fan]

Mets fans are in a kinda fun bit of denial where they adore the fact that all their assets are tied in pitching even while Harvey blows out his arm and Syndergaard gets punked in AAA.

 

You don't think the Mets have good young pitching? Even if you want to foolishly disregard Harvey and Syndergaard, they have 4 other guys who have already had success in the majors and are under control until 2020.

 

Wheeler

Niese

Gee

Degrom

 

Plus 2 more top 100 pitching prospects in Rafael Montero and Steven Matz. So all in all you're looking at:

 

Harvey

Wheeler

Syndergaard

Niese

Degrom

Gee

Montero

Matz

 

Why wouldn't we be excited? :S

http://cdn.newsday.com/polopoly_fs/1.2688890.1297803756!/httpImage/image.JPG_gen/derivatives/display_600/image.JPG

[Ding Dong Johnson]

[Letsgomets55]

So because so the big bad TJ boogeyman, pitching is no longer valuable?

[Guest]

1) Niese is not under control until 2020, he's already 27 years old and is the replaceable, mid-rotation kind of guy our front office picks up basically for free every offseason. That's when he's at his best.

 

2) Gee is not under control until 2020, he's already 28 years old, and is a worse version of the replaceable, mid-rotation kind of guy our front office picks up basically for free every offseason. That's when he's at his best.

 

3) Harvey is injured. Most of the time, guys come back from TJS okay, but sometimes they don't. They usually don't in the first year. So you are burning a full year of control this year and potentially another next year getting him back up to speed. Plus he's not under control until 2020.

 

4) Wheeler is pretty good, but not yet great by any means.

 

5) DeGrom is hardly proven after 11 starts.

 

6) Syndergaard has blown up hard in AAA this year.

 

Plus, you know, pitchers get hurt. A lot. Including several guys on the list above.

[ConstableRabbit]

So because so the big bad TJ boogeyman, pitching is no longer valuable?

No, it's just less valuable than having position players who have a [expletive] of power. And are young and under team control or team-friendly contracts for several years.

[KingCubsFan]

I don't trade Starlin for any pitcher-led deal.

Certainly not one led by pitching prospects. Maybe for an established MLB starter. Remember when Theo traded Hanley Ramirez for Josh Beckett? Any trade for one of our young position players would have to be for someone like that, i.e. Chris Sale, Strasburg, Bumgarner, etc.

[Letsgomets55]

1) Niese is not under control until 2020, he's already 27 years old and is the replaceable, mid-rotation kind of guy our front office picks up basically for free every offseason. That's when he's at his best.

 

2) Gee is not under control until 2020, he's already 28 years old, and is a worse version of the replaceable, mid-rotation kind of guy our front office picks up basically for free every offseason. That's when he's at his best.

 

3) Harvey is injured. Most of the time, guys come back from TJS okay, but sometimes they don't. They usually don't in the first year. So you are burning a full year of control this year and potentially another next year getting him back up to speed. Plus he's not under control until 2020.

 

4) Wheeler is pretty good, but not yet great by any means.

 

5) DeGrom is hardly proven after 11 starts.

 

6) Syndergaard has blown up hard in AAA this year.

 

Plus, you know, pitchers get hurt. A lot. Including several guys on the list above.

 

Considering the Cubs just got a top 5 prospect for a couple of rental pitchers shows you that teams still highly value pitching.

 

Haha you are undervaluing Niese by a lot. Samardzija is a much better comp for him than a guy like Hammel who you randomly picked up. He is under team control until 2019. We have a cheap team options on him for 2017, 2018. Young lefty who's cost controlled for a while is a huge asset. Harvey was a top 5 pitcher in baseball before he got hurt. He put up a 6 WAR last year despite missing a month and a half. Considering the success rate of TJ these days, he's the last person I'm worried about. Won't comment on Degrom and Wheeler. Small sample size, but they're both awesome from what we've seen so far.

 

Syndergaard is pitching in the PCL. Vegas is one of the best hitters parks in the minors. We all expected him to struggle at first. Plus he's battled through some nagging injuries. Despite that, his peripherals are great. He's striking out batters, not giving up HRs and hitting upper 90s on the gun. One bad month in the PCL won't take away from the fact that he's a top 10 prospect.

[Guest]

DeGrom is a 26 year old rookie. You know how many 26 year old rookies are actually "awesome" over extended stays in the majors?

[Guest]

Also, comparing Niese to Samardzija is laughable.

[jersey cubs fan]

Considering the Cubs just got a top 5 prospect for a couple of rental pitchers shows you that teams still highly value pitching.

 

Samardzija is more of a longterm lease than a rental.

[Guest]

So because so the big bad TJ boogeyman, pitching is no longer valuable?

 

Correct, when large swatches of pitchers are prone to have career altering/ending injuries(shoulder) or fixable injuries that make them out for a year and less effective for a while after(elbow), they don't have as much value when the league average ERA is 1.62 or whatever it is.

[Letsgomets55]

Also, comparing Niese to Samardzija is laughable.

 

How so? Niese is two years younger and their numbers are not that far off.

[Guest]

Also, comparing Niese to Samardzija is laughable.

 

How so? Niese is two years younger and their numbers are not that far off.

First off, stuff. Whether he has done it for extended times or not, Shark has the stuff of a #1 pitcher. Niese isn't close to that level.

 

Second, 2014 performance - Niese has never sniffed that level of success, a sign that Shark is starting to show results from that level of stuff.

 

Third, health - Shark has never missed significant time due to injury and has many fewer miles on his arm than most pitchers. Niese has never been able to stay healthy and has recent injury history.

 

Fourth, did I mention stuff yet?

[Guest]

Jon Niese is a perfectly fine pitcher, he's basically a touch above league average and has been for a little while. He's essentially a right handed Travis Wood, his stuff is not good enough to break into the next tier of starters, but he's been consistent for the value he provides.

 

What he is not is on the same plane as a pitcher like Samardzija, who for his flaws has elite velocity and stuff, and is shortly going to have his 3rd consecutive season that is better than any season Niese has ever had.

[Derwood]

Also, comparing Niese to Samardzija is laughable.

 

How so? Niese is two years younger and their numbers are not that far off.

 

2014:

 

Shark: 2.3 bWAR, 3.02 FIP, 141 ERA+

Niese: 1.7 bWAR, 3.62 FIP, 118 ERA+

[jersey cubs fan]

Also, comparing Niese to Samardzija is laughable.

 

How so? Niese is two years younger and their numbers are not that far off.

 

2014:

 

Shark: 2.3 bWAR, 3.02 FIP, 141 ERA+

Niese: 1.7 bWAR, 3.62 FIP, 118 ERA+

 

See, you just compared them, they are comparable.

[Derwood]

Also, comparing Niese to Samardzija is laughable.

 

How so? Niese is two years younger and their numbers are not that far off.

 

2014:

 

Shark: 2.3 bWAR, 3.02 FIP, 141 ERA+

Niese: 1.7 bWAR, 3.62 FIP, 118 ERA+

 

See, you just compared them, they are comparable.

 

but I laughed while I was typing

[Soul]

So because so the big bad TJ boogeyman, pitching is no longer valuable?

 

Just valued differently. Especially by the fan base of a team like the Cubs (remember, Wood & Prior meltdown happened here).

 

And especially in an era when elite hitting seems to be in short supply, and solid pitching seems to be easier to acquire by comparison.

[jersey cubs fan]

Mets fan should be more aware of Generation K scenario.

 

Talented pitching prospects are nice and all, but a farm system based on pitching prospects is destined to disappoint.

[ConstableRabbit]

you are undervaluing Niese by a lot. Samardzija is a much better comp for him than a guy like Hammel

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lx9jb1SPMr1qdrpdr.gif

[Letsgomets55]

Also, comparing Niese to Samardzija is laughable.

 

How so? Niese is two years younger and their numbers are not that far off.

 

2014:

 

Shark: 2.3 bWAR, 3.02 FIP, 141 ERA+

Niese: 1.7 bWAR, 3.62 FIP, 118 ERA+

 

Right, everyone knows Samardzija is having a career year. I can use the same logic to say Niese is better than Strasburg

 

2014:

 

Niese: 1.7 bWAR, 3.62 FIP, 118 ERA+

Strasburg: 0.7 bWAR, 3.28 FRO, 107 ERA+

 

Samardzija is 2 years older and just had the best three months of his career. You can't just look at 2014.

[imb]

Also, comparing Niese to Samardzija is laughable.

 

How so? Niese is two years younger and their numbers are not that far off.

 

2014:

 

Shark: 2.3 bWAR, 3.02 FIP, 141 ERA+

Niese: 1.7 bWAR, 3.62 FIP, 118 ERA+

 

Right, everyone knows Samardzija is having a career year. I can use the same logic to say Niese is better than Strasburg

 

2014:

 

Niese: 1.7 bWAR, 3.62 FIP, 118 ERA+

Strasburg: 0.7 bWAR, 3.28 FRO, 107 ERA+

 

Samardzija is 2 years older and just had the best three months of his career. You can't just look at 2014.

 

I like a lot of the Mets pitchers, so don't take me as a hater. But Niese has had 47 good starts in his life.

[Bobson Dugnutt]

Also, comparing Niese to Samardzija is laughable.

 

How so? Niese is two years younger and their numbers are not that far off.

 

2014:

 

Shark: 2.3 bWAR, 3.02 FIP, 141 ERA+

Niese: 1.7 bWAR, 3.62 FIP, 118 ERA+

 

Right, everyone knows Samardzija is having a career year. I can use the same logic to say Niese is better than Strasburg

 

2014:

 

Niese: 1.7 bWAR, 3.62 FIP, 118 ERA+

Strasburg: 0.7 bWAR, 3.28 FRO, 107 ERA+

 

Samardzija is 2 years older and just had the best three months of his career. You can't just look at 2014.

 

OK. This is Shark's third season as a starter. In those three seasons, he has had a better fWAR than Niese's career high three times.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Mets fans are in a kinda fun bit of denial where they adore the fact that all their assets are tied in pitching even while Harvey blows out his arm and Syndergaard gets punked in AAA.

 

You don't think the Mets have good young pitching?...

Why wouldn't we be excited? :S

 

You totally have good young pitching. It's like having a fortune tied up in poorly stored gasoline.