4/26 Cubs (wood) @ bewers (estrada) 6 pm, CSN tv

[Guest]

I blame them. A lot. They haven't been very good at finding good MLB plaers.

 

Partly because they haven't tried to find many good big leaguers.

[d_money]

The Cubs are on pace for a 49-113 record.

Somebody tell Jed/Theo the Cubs only get 1 1st round pick (not 2) no matter how bad the record

[Bryants Disco Ball]

I blame them. A lot. They haven't been very good at finding good MLB plaers.

 

Actually, considering we have owners who can't even run the team like a small market one, I've enjoyed their work and the fact that they have been creative in trying to restock the system through signing guys and flipping them. Which they have done a strong job with. Not every GM would have even thought of the concept, much less be able to pull it off multiple times.

 

Obviously, the trade to get Travis Wood was nice. The pickup of Luis Valbuena for nothing was impressive. The signings of role players such as David DeJesus and Dioner Navarro were cool.

 

The list is never going to be standout impressive considering they have no real money to spend, but I wonder what another GM would have been able to do with the resources provided the last few years? I'm confident that without Theo and Jed, we are even worse off than we are now.

 

Edit to add: Again, I'm a Theo guy. So I realize I'm bias.

[treebird]

I blame them. A lot. They haven't been very good at finding good MLB plaers.

 

Actually, considering we have owners who can't even run the team like a small market one, I've enjoyed their work and the fact that they have been creative in trying to restock the system through signing guys and flipping them. Which they have done a strong job with. Not every GM would have even thought of the concept, much less be able to pull it off multiple times.

 

Obviously, the trade to get Travis Wood was nice. The pickup of Luis Valbuena for nothing was impressive. The signings of role players such as David DeJesus and Dioner Navarro were cool.

 

The list is never going to be standout impressive considering they have no real money to spend, but I wonder what another GM would have been able to do with the resources provided the last few years? I'm confident that without Theo and Jed, we are even worse off than we are now.

 

Edit to add: Again, I'm a Theo guy. So I realize I'm bias.

 

you are basically giving them credit for getting one okay player per year. this is the faintest of faint praise.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Who did we actually get in "the system" from sign and flips?

 

Pineyro, Vizcaino. I'm spacing. Where there more? Strop and Arrieta were major leaguers.

 

They committed almost $100m in free agents two offseasons ago. They have not been nearly as broke as you are implying.

[Tangled Up in Plaid]

I'm at the point where I'm just going to assume they suck forever so I can have a pleasant surprise in 7 or 8 years if they finally become competitive.

[Guest]

The Cubs are on pace for a 49-113 record.

Somebody tell Jed/Theo the Cubs only get 1 1st round pick (not 2) no matter how bad the record

 

What's crazy is there is actually a team with a worse record than them.

[Bryants Disco Ball]

Who did we actually get in "the system" from sign and flips?

 

Pineyro, Vizcaino. I'm spacing. Where there more? Strop and Arrieta were major leaguers.

 

They committed almost $100m in free agents two offseasons ago. They have not been nearly as broke as you are implying.

 

Sorry. I shouldn't have just said in the system. But to get not only prospects but major leaguers in Strop and Arrieta who still have multiple years of control in the flipped trades actually makes it even better.

 

These have nothing to do with signing Major League guys as you previously asked, but I would like to add that I think they did a good job getting Corey Black for Soriano and Castillo and Leal for Campana. The Matt Garza trade at least appears to have the chance to be solid. They have made some potentially impact international signings.

 

For a front offic getting no support from the owners, they have been pretty darn good.

[Bryants Disco Ball]

Who did we actually get in "the system" from sign and flip

 

They committed almost $100m in free agents two offseasons ago. They have not been nearly as broke as you are implying.

 

Wait. So now we are trying to say the Cubs have been able to spend money and are not broke?

[UMFan83]

God the hate is so strong now. What happens when a couple of top prospects flame out? Pitchforks or widespread Pirates style apathy? Edited April 27, 2014 by UMFan83

[SouthSideRyan]

Valbuena's under team control for 3 years, I doubt he's going anywhere. That's also one of the reasons that freaking out about him playing v. Olt is premature/silly.

 

Valbuena is a FA After 2016, and if that's truly the new target for thinking about contending he doesn't seem to fit.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Who did we actually get in "the system" from sign and flip

 

They committed almost $100m in free agents two offseasons ago. They have not been nearly as broke as you are implying.

 

Wait. So now we are trying to say the Cubs have been able to spend money and are not broke?

 

Sort of. It would be awesome if they had more money and hadn't boxed themselves in with a lot of terrible financial systems, *and* Epstein and Hoyer have done a very meh job with the money they've had to spend.

 

It's one thing to go on about Strop and Arrieta and Pineyro for the cost of Hammel and Hairston. But throw in the cost of Baker, and Fujikawa, and Navarro, and we really spent way too much for what we got.

 

 

The vast majority of the prospects they've acquired have been from trading off players they inherited.

[SouthSideRyan]

It was a violent post, but I think I agreed with what he was saying: They should be playing Luis at second and Olt at third almost every day. Olt has a high chance of sucking, but in this horrid season there is no reason for him to be sitting on the bench. Ever.

 

Why?

 

Because Mike Olt was, at one time a short while ago, a top prospect. And despite having struggles to make contact and not playing every day, he still leads the team in homers.

 

So, I'd ask you: Why not?

 

Then why aren't you campaigning for Vitters and Brett Jackson to be in here over Nate and Bonifacio?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

God the hate is so strong now. What happens when a couple of top prospects flame out? Pitchforks or widespread Pirates style apathy?

 

Both. Mostly apathy, but the pockets of hatred will be strong.

[Bryants Disco Ball]

It was a violent post, but I think I agreed with what he was saying: They should be playing Luis at second and Olt at third almost every day. Olt has a high chance of sucking, but in this horrid season there is no reason for him to be sitting on the bench. Ever.

 

Why?

 

Because Mike Olt was, at one time a short while ago, a top prospect. And despite having struggles to make contact and not playing every day, he still leads the team in homers.

 

So, I'd ask you: Why not?

 

Then why aren't you campaigning for Vitters and Brett Jackson to be in here over Nate and Bonifacio?

 

Great point. I'd be all for that. I would much rather have a Vitters, Lake, Jackson outfield for this season than a Nate, Bonafacio and Sweeny one.

[Bryants Disco Ball]

Who did we actually get in "the system" from sign and flip

 

They committed almost $100m in free agents two offseasons ago. They have not been nearly as broke as you are implying.

 

Wait. So now we are trying to say the Cubs have been able to spend money and are not broke?

 

Sort of. It would be awesome if they had more money and hadn't boxed themselves in with a lot of terrible financial systems, *and* Epstein and Hoyer have done a very meh job with the money they've had to spend.

 

It's one thing to go on about Strop and Arrieta and Pineyro for the cost of Hammel and Hairston. But throw in the cost of Baker, and Fujikawa, and Navarro, and we really spent way too much for what we got.

 

 

The vast majority of the prospects they've acquired have been from trading off players they inherited.

 

Can we at least meet in the middle and agree that Theo and Jed have been damn good at the trading part?

[SouthSideRyan]

I'm actually one of the more positive guys toward the rebuild. But I was watching the Cards-Pirates game today, and when the Cards loaded the bases the fans all got up and started to cheer for a key moment in the game.

 

It made me realize we don't even have a chance to do that anymore, because none of these games or moments matter. And I did start getting bitter at ownership while watching it. They need to show big improvement next year. They have to.

Don't get your hopes up. One would think they'd try to improve this year. I was optimistic that they'd be better this but I'm not any longer.

 

I know this isn't right considering the Cubs have been popular forever and haven't won in a century, but I start to wonder if another horrid year, coupled with another horrid two months next year, would start to have a huge impact on the fan base coming out to games. Like, a very noticeable one. Not just the expected decrease.

 

I don't even know what I'm talking about. I hate the Brewers. I hate that the Cubs are so bad. I hate that the Brewers get to beat up on the Cubs 19 times a year and we just have to sit back and watch it happen.

 

What do you consider a "noticeable" decline? This year we will finish off our dropoff of 1 million plus fans since 08(and possiby 1M since 09)

[Bryants Disco Ball]

I'm actually one of the more positive guys toward the rebuild. But I was watching the Cards-Pirates game today, and when the Cards loaded the bases the fans all got up and started to cheer for a key moment in the game.

 

It made me realize we don't even have a chance to do that anymore, because none of these games or moments matter. And I did start getting bitter at ownership while watching it. They need to show big improvement next year. They have to.

Don't get your hopes up. One would think they'd try to improve this year. I was optimistic that they'd be better this but I'm not any longer.

 

I know this isn't right considering the Cubs have been popular forever and haven't won in a century, but I start to wonder if another horrid year, coupled with another horrid two months next year, would start to have a huge impact on the fan base coming out to games. Like, a very noticeable one. Not just the expected decrease.

 

I don't even know what I'm talking about. I hate the Brewers. I hate that the Cubs are so bad. I hate that the Brewers get to beat up on the Cubs 19 times a year and we just have to sit back and watch it happen.

 

What do you consider a "noticeable" decline? This year we will finish off our dropoff of 1 million plus fans since 08(and possiby 1M since 09)

 

A decline in which it looks like a slightly better version than a Pirates home crowd from a few years ago.

[jersey cubs fan]

I've never agreed with the 'Let's just spend money to spend money' thinking, but whatever it is they have to do this offseason to at make this team respectable in 2015, they damn well better do.

 

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

 

This isn't a thing. This was never a thing. You aren't being brave by disagreeing with a line of thinking that never existed. People wanted them to spend more money to help win more games, because losing this many games sucks [expletive] balls. And losing this many games was inevitable when they got into the taking a dive business.

 

It is amazing how easy it is to lose lots of games if you actively try to avoid winning.

[SouthSideRyan]

I'm actually one of the more positive guys toward the rebuild. But I was watching the Cards-Pirates game today, and when the Cards loaded the bases the fans all got up and started to cheer for a key moment in the game.

 

It made me realize we don't even have a chance to do that anymore, because none of these games or moments matter. And I did start getting bitter at ownership while watching it. They need to show big improvement next year. They have to.

 

It made sense to me that they didn't want to spend big on anyone except Tanaka this past offseason, but with the top prospects on track to begin arriving at the end of this year and all the money they *should* have, they better go big this offseason.

 

I've been fine with the "suck hard until we're ready" strategy, because I was much more annoyed with the old, expensive crappy 2009-2011 teams than the teams the past couple years. But if this offseason resembles last offseason, that's just a "suck hard and hope for a miracle" strategy.

 

I'm still confused why people are ok with us passing on Ellsbury.

 

And the 09 cubs were tied for first on august 5th

[SouthSideRyan]

I'm actually one of the more positive guys toward the rebuild. But I was watching the Cards-Pirates game today, and when the Cards loaded the bases the fans all got up and started to cheer for a key moment in the game.

 

It made me realize we don't even have a chance to do that anymore, because none of these games or moments matter. And I did start getting bitter at ownership while watching it. They need to show big improvement next year. They have to.

 

A team can rebuild without sucking this badly for 3 years in a row. As far as improvement next year, yeah I mean every season we think next year has to be better. At this rate, it isn't getting there. And given the ongoing delays with the renovations at Wrigley I think that timeline for attempting to be competitive is just being pushed back further and further.

 

Well technically at this rate next year probably will be better

[Bryants Disco Ball]

I've never agreed with the 'Let's just spend money to spend money' thinking, but whatever it is they have to do this offseason to at make this team respectable in 2015, they damn well better do.

 

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

 

This isn't a thing. This was never a thing. You aren't being brave by disagreeing with a line of thinking that never existed. People wanted them to spend more money to help win more games, because losing this many games sucks [expletive] balls. And losing this many games was inevitable when they got into the taking a dive business.

 

It is amazing how easy it is to lose lots of games if you actively try to avoid winning.

 

OK. That's cool. I apologize for stating it like that.

[jersey cubs fan]

 

Can we at least meet in the middle and agree that Theo and Jed have been damn good at the trading part?

Why?

 

Management's job is to maximized the team's chances of winning. Trading veterans for prospects is just a very small part of that. Anybody can succeed in building up a "system" when that is the only focus.

[SouthSideRyan]

The Cubs are on pace for a 49-113 record.

Somebody tell Jed/Theo the Cubs only get 1 1st round pick (not 2) no matter how bad the record

 

What's crazy is there is actually a team with a worse record than them.

 

One we still couldn't win a series from

[Bryants Disco Ball]

 

Can we at least meet in the middle and agree that Theo and Jed have been damn good at the trading part?

Why?

 

Management's job is to maximized the team's chances of winning. Trading veterans for prospects is just a very small part of that. Anybody can succeed in building up a "system" when that is the only focus.

 

Not just prospect trades. We were able to get Strop and Arrieta for Feldman and Travis Wood for Sean Marshall. Rizzo for Cashner is still one I'd do. Nobody will be able to convince me that Theo/Jed haven't been good in the overall trading department.

 

I'm not sure that just any GM would have been able to do so well no matter what your criteria is.