Who is the Cubs #20 Prospect?

[CaliforniaRaisin]

The poll will be open for 48 hours. There is a tie breaker vote at the same time for #17 and #18.

 

Results so far:

 

1. Javier Baez

2. Kris Bryant

3. Albert Almora

4. Jorge Soler

5. CJ Edwards

6. Arismendy Alcantara

7. Pierce Johnson

8. Daniel Vogelbach

9. Christian Villanueva

10. Jeimer Candelario

11. Mike Olt

12. Kyle Hendricks

13. Arodys Vizcaino

14. Paul Blackburn

15. Rob Zastryzny

16. Corey Black

17. Neil Ramirez

18. Eloy Jimenez

19. Josh Vitters

[Tangled Up in Plaid]

Pineyro, Skulina, Maples.

[Cubswin11]

Maples

Dunston Jr.

Skulina

[craig]

Tseng, Rivero, Maples.

 

I'm going for the big-stuff big-arm guys.

 

Maples hasn't done much pitching yet. May always be a wild guy, so who knows. But guys with movement like that, and throw so fast so easily, don't grow on trees. He's got a chance to be one of the big surprises this year. Or, of course, to just be Chris Archer wild. It's a lot easier to coach and tweak a pitcher than a hitter, I think. I've got to imagine Johnson has spent a lot of time analyzing Maples's mechanics, and Maples arm is worth all the attention/help that Johnson can provide. Given that he's only pitched for one year, and he made tremendous progress, I'm still optimistic. He's only allowed 1 HR and had G/A well over 2 at Boise. So his anti-HR profile looks great. HR/K/BB, he's great at one, good at the second. 2/3 of the way to being a very good pitcher after only one actual pitching season.

 

My understanding is they're expecting to start Rivero this spring. I'll be interested to see how he looks as a rotation guy.

Edited February 22, 2014 by craig

[Tangled Up in Plaid]

My understanding is they're expecting to start Rivero this spring. I'll be interested to see how he looks as a rotation guy.

 

Hadn't heard that. Interesting.

[Rob]

Dunston, Rivero, Pineyro.

[craig]

I have to admit I don't really get the high support for Pineyro this early.

*He had a nice month at the beginning, but his overall season numbers were not that great. ERA's have been 3.29 and 4.26 the last two years.

*He'll turn 23 this year, so he's probably not very projectable for increasing velocity.

*He's got a strong fly-ball profile. For Daytona he somehow managed to allow only a couple of HR's despite all the flyballs, but over his career he's been HR-vulnerable. I'm not sure his HR-containment at Daytona is likely to continue long-term in the upper minors and majors, while allowing so many flyballs.

*His velocity is mediocre, certainly less than average for a big-league RHP. Yes, I understand he can occasionally pop a 94-mph change up, and he's probably a little faster than Hendricks. But his average working velocity is going to be less than the 91.7(?) big-league average for a starter. And even if he bumps it up a bit, it won't probably be faster than the 93+ average for big-league RH relievers.

*Washington traded him for Hairston.

 

I love his low-walk control. And his K rate has been solid. But I think his stuff might get increasingly exposed with each of the next three steps up. Hope I'm wrong, and he can be a serviceable 7th inning reliever, or 5th starter. But at least for me, I've got a lot of guys I like more. Hope he's one of the control overachievers who out-performs his stuff.

[Tangled Up in Plaid]

He basically has the same profile as Kyle Hendricks did at this time last year, with slightly better stuff.

[SouthSideRyan]

He basically has the same profile as Kyle Hendricks did at this time last year, with slightly better stuff.

 

Hendricks came in at #46 last year

[Guest]

I have to admit I don't really get the high support for Pineyro this early.

*He had a nice month at the beginning, but his overall season numbers were not that great. ERA's have been 3.29 and 4.26 the last two years.

*He'll turn 23 this year, so he's probably not very projectable for increasing velocity.

*He's got a strong fly-ball profile. For Daytona he somehow managed to allow only a couple of HR's despite all the flyballs, but over his career he's been HR-vulnerable. I'm not sure his HR-containment at Daytona is likely to continue long-term in the upper minors and majors, while allowing so many flyballs.

*His velocity is mediocre, certainly less than average for a big-league RHP. Yes, I understand he can occasionally pop a 94-mph change up, and he's probably a little faster than Hendricks. But his average working velocity is going to be less than the 91.7(?) big-league average for a starter. And even if he bumps it up a bit, it won't probably be faster than the 93+ average for big-league RH relievers.

*Washington traded him for Hairston.

 

I love his low-walk control. And his K rate has been solid. But I think his stuff might get increasingly exposed with each of the next three steps up. Hope I'm wrong, and he can be a serviceable 7th inning reliever, or 5th starter. But at least for me, I've got a lot of guys I like more. Hope he's one of the control overachievers who out-performs his stuff.

 

Most scouting reports I've seen have him working comfortably at 90-93. He topped out at 96 at Daytona.

[toonsterwu]

I'll admit, I am hesitant on Pineyro. There's a part of me that wonders if all the "safer than Black as a starter" comparisons (seems like that was the comparison made this winter here and elsewhere, primarily because they were both trade additions) is a bit over-stated. Yes, he has a better 3rd pitch as of now, but the breaking ball needs a lot of work. I mean, I think people forget, but in low A, the talk amongst some folks was that Ben Wells breaking ball "flashed" well and had potential. That pitch never came around, and it's no guarantee that Pineyro's will. I haven't heard anyone suggest the change as a potential plus pitch either, so he looks to be a guy who max end potential lacks a really plus pitch and is more a 4th/5th starter hope.

 

That said, the positive end sees a guy that has solid velocity, with the potential for 2 better than average secondary pitches, with solid command and a good performance record. He should be a starter in AA. His ceiling's better than a Hendricks (that's no knock on Hendricks, but I do think Pineyro's ceiling as a starter is higher), and I think he could pump mid-90's if thrust in the pen.

 

It's not that I'm not intrigued with the options here - it's just, there's enough to pick at that I feel okay with Pineyro as one of the three.

[craig]

...Most scouting reports I've seen have him working comfortably at 90-93. He topped out at 96 at Daytona.

 

Simple enough. That would explain why people are voting for him this high. My perception had been that he's not as fast as those numbers would suggest, which is why I was surprised the voting was that favorable. Hopefully my perception was misinformed, and his fastball is that fast.

[craig]

http://www.csnchicago.com/cubs/cubs-getting-close-look-cuban-pitcher-armando-rivero

 

Rivero piece. Sounds like he's looking good, and I liked the note that he's trying to learn English.

 

Also said that Vizcaino threw well again, and hasn't had any setbacks.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I'd seen a few places that Rivero might be stretched out as a starter? He's already 26, I'd rather just see him in the pen dominating again as fast as possible.

[Guest]

I'll admit, I am hesitant on Pineyro. There's a part of me that wonders if all the "safer than Black as a starter" comparisons (seems like that was the comparison made this winter here and elsewhere, primarily because they were both trade additions) is a bit over-stated. Yes, he has a better 3rd pitch as of now, but the breaking ball needs a lot of work. I mean, I think people forget, but in low A, the talk amongst some folks was that Ben Wells breaking ball "flashed" well and had potential. That pitch never came around, and it's no guarantee that Pineyro's will. I haven't heard anyone suggest the change as a potential plus pitch either, so he looks to be a guy who max end potential lacks a really plus pitch and is more a 4th/5th starter hope.

 

That said, the positive end sees a guy that has solid velocity, with the potential for 2 better than average secondary pitches, with solid command and a good performance record. He should be a starter in AA. His ceiling's better than a Hendricks (that's no knock on Hendricks, but I do think Pineyro's ceiling as a starter is higher), and I think he could pump mid-90's if thrust in the pen.

 

It's not that I'm not intrigued with the options here - it's just, there's enough to pick at that I feel okay with Pineyro as one of the three.

 

BA said Pineyro's change was above average "at times."

[craig]

I'd seen a few places that Rivero might be stretched out as a starter? He's already 26, I'd rather just see him in the pen dominating again as fast as possible.

 

I wonder what the Cubs thinking is.

1. Very unlikely he makes the team out of camp, even if other guys don't stay healthy or don't look good.

2. He might "start" some games just to get innings in. Given 3-4 years largely lost, they might simply want him throwing innings every 5th day, and getting to use all his stuff against real hitters. Developmental plan to accelerate readiness for big-league pen.

3. They talk lots of ideas that they don't end up pursuing; good chance he doesn't start at all.

4. There may also be a philosophical principle in play: give your best arms a chance in rotation, until they show you that they shouldn't stay there. Maybe Rivero has pitched too little to know what he can or can't do?

 

Maybe they already know. Perhaps his "rail-thin" frame already makes it obvious he can't do rotation. Maybe his repertoire is already observed to be too limited, or his control too erratic to handle innings. And even if those things aren't certain now, six weeks at Iowa might make it clear soon enough. But it ail be interesting to see how it goes.

[Guest]

I have no problem with Rivero starting just so he can rack up US professional innings.