2014 Roster Discussion

[Guest]

If Javy isn't interested in an early extension a la Castro/Rizzo, then they still have until (at least) after the 2020 season to come up with the money to sign him.

 

I mean, is this seriously a thing we're discussing? If you want go full-FUD just say you're worried that the payroll will never go up ever, just say that so we don't have this cycle of strawmen where good players are evil and even if we did want them, none of them will come to Chicago because the team will win 65 games in perpetuity.

[SouthSideRyan]

-I fear that we see no increased revenues from the renovations for at least 5 years because all the monetizing is used to fund the rest of the renovations.

-I fear that lowered ratings due to a shitty team means we don't get nearly the boost we were all hoping from on the WGN portion of our TV deal.

-I fear that by time our Comcast contract comes up, the sports bubble has somewhat burst, and we don't get nearly the boost we're all hoping from on that portion of our deal.

-I fear that we're in payroll hell for another 5 years and nothing that happens this offseason short of a Tanaka signing is going to convince me otherwise.

[KingCubsFan]

It's going to be very interesting to watch the same people who act like paying premium for talent is the devil handle what happens if Baez or another of the prospects truly hits his ceiling and wants to get paid like a superstar.

 

Will tying up all the payroll still be the worst thing to do in the history of ever, or will it somehow be more acceptable because we developed the player?

 

Apples and oranges. By the time Javy is due to become a free agent one would hope that we are then trying to sustain our success, not add a high dollar free agent to a steaming pile of dung. The financial situation should also be much improved by then.

 

I'm just curious how it's apples to oranges...talent is talent, no? Adding a good player is not any different than retaining one; both help you get closer to your goal of winning. Adding Ellsbury to the current pile of offensive crap makes it less bad, doesn't it?

No, it's completely different. You're trying to compare a mid 20's superstar shortstop in this hypothetical to Ellsbury , who is 31 and whose value is derived mainly from speed and defense. If the Cubs ever had a player like that, and we're faced with signing him to a huge 7 year deal or letting him walk, I'd let him walk. Particularly if you're in the Red Sox situation and you have a guy like Jackie Bradley ready to take over.

[Guest]

The speed aging worse thing is probably a myth.

 

That said, it's still apples to oranges.

[Guest]

-I fear that we're in payroll hell for another 5 years and nothing that happens this offseason short of a Tanaka signing is going to convince me otherwise.

 

Do you think that the Tanaka interest is just for show? Or is it a "FA doesn't want our money" thing on top of a limited payroll?

[USSoccer]

-I fear that we're in payroll hell for another 5 years and nothing that happens this offseason short of a Tanaka signing is going to convince me otherwise.

 

Do you think that the Tanaka interest is just for show? Or is it a "FA doesn't want our money" thing on top of a limited payroll?

 

It doesn't matter if its for show or not. I'm sure they want to sign him, but as N&G said, why would he sign here? What would compel him to come here as opposed to a team poised to content with better facilities?

 

Interest is great, but they have to turn that interest into results.

[Guest]

-I fear that we're in payroll hell for another 5 years and nothing that happens this offseason short of a Tanaka signing is going to convince me otherwise.

 

Do you think that the Tanaka interest is just for show? Or is it a "FA doesn't want our money" thing on top of a limited payroll?

 

It doesn't matter if its for show or not. I'm sure they want to sign him, but as N&G said, why would he sign here? What would compel him to come here as opposed to a team poised to content with better facilities?

 

Interest is great, but they have to turn that interest into results.

Lots and lots of money. The Ricketts seem to find a pot of gold when they need to.

[Guest]

-I fear that we're in payroll hell for another 5 years and nothing that happens this offseason short of a Tanaka signing is going to convince me otherwise.

 

Do you think that the Tanaka interest is just for show? Or is it a "FA doesn't want our money" thing on top of a limited payroll?

 

It doesn't matter if its for show or not. I'm sure they want to sign him, but as N&G said, why would he sign here? What would compel him to come here as opposed to a team poised to content with better facilities?

 

Interest is great, but they have to turn that interest into results.

 

It completely matters within the context of the discussion between SSR and TT....

[UK1679666180]

-I fear that we're in payroll hell for another 5 years and nothing that happens this offseason short of a Tanaka signing is going to convince me otherwise.

 

Do you think that the Tanaka interest is just for show? Or is it a "FA doesn't want our money" thing on top of a limited payroll?

 

It doesn't matter if its for show or not. I'm sure they want to sign him, but as N&G said, why would he sign here? What would compel him to come here as opposed to a team poised to content with better facilities?

 

Interest is great, but they have to turn that interest into results.

Lots and lots of money. The Ricketts seem to find a pot of gold when they need to.

 

Compared to teams who have shown to spend more? At best for the Cubs, they're in the same area code with NYY and LAD. Still (minus the White Sox) I don't see a less desirable destination for Tanaka and his wife, given location, team performance, market size, and culture.

 

The only time they've wrestled some funds together was when they purchased the team.

[UK1679666180]

-I fear that we're in payroll hell for another 5 years and nothing that happens this offseason short of a Tanaka signing is going to convince me otherwise.

 

Do you think that the Tanaka interest is just for show? Or is it a "FA doesn't want our money" thing on top of a limited payroll?

 

It doesn't matter if its for show or not. I'm sure they want to sign him, but as N&G said, why would he sign here? What would compel him to come here as opposed to a team poised to content with better facilities?

 

Interest is great, but they have to turn that interest into results.

 

It completely matters within the context of the discussion between SSR and TT....

 

Before it becomes a semantics argument, we need to find out what SSR considers "payroll hell", if it's 85-100 mil regardless of where the team is talent-wise b/c of lack of funding, I would tend to agree with that.

[jersey cubs fan]

-I fear that we're in payroll hell for another 5 years and nothing that happens this offseason short of a Tanaka signing is going to convince me otherwise.

 

Do you think that the Tanaka interest is just for show? Or is it a "FA doesn't want our money" thing on top of a limited payroll?

 

It doesn't matter if its for show or not. I'm sure they want to sign him, but as N&G said, why would he sign here? What would compel him to come here as opposed to a team poised to content with better facilities?

 

Interest is great, but they have to turn that interest into results.

 

It completely matters within the context of the discussion between SSR and TT....

 

Wait, this is going all over the place. SSR said he fears payroll will remain low for 5 years and that the only thing that would convince him otherwise is if they sign Tanaka. Their level of interest in Tanaka, or his reasons for not picking the Cubs do not matter in this context. The context of the discussion is that the Cubs have to prove they are willing to spend for him to believe they are willing to spend and the only way to do that is to actually spend, not just hint that they have an interest in spending.

[USSoccer]

-I fear that we're in payroll hell for another 5 years and nothing that happens this offseason short of a Tanaka signing is going to convince me otherwise.

 

Do you think that the Tanaka interest is just for show? Or is it a "FA doesn't want our money" thing on top of a limited payroll?

 

It doesn't matter if its for show or not. I'm sure they want to sign him, but as N&G said, why would he sign here? What would compel him to come here as opposed to a team poised to content with better facilities?

 

Interest is great, but they have to turn that interest into results.

 

It completely matters within the context of the discussion between SSR and TT....

 

No, it doesn't.

[Guest]

-I fear that we're in payroll hell for another 5 years and nothing that happens this offseason short of a Tanaka signing is going to convince me otherwise.

 

Do you think that the Tanaka interest is just for show? Or is it a "FA doesn't want our money" thing on top of a limited payroll?

 

It doesn't matter if its for show or not. I'm sure they want to sign him, but as N&G said, why would he sign here? What would compel him to come here as opposed to a team poised to content with better facilities?

 

Interest is great, but they have to turn that interest into results.

Lots and lots of money. The Ricketts seem to find a pot of gold when they need to.

 

Compared to teams who have shown to spend more? At best for the Cubs, they're in the same area code with NYY and LAD. Still (minus the White Sox) I don't see a less desirable destination for Tanaka and his wife, given location, team performance, market size, and culture.

 

The only time they've wrestled some funds together was when they purchased the team.

The spent a lot of money on Edwin Jackson last year because they thought he could help now and in the future.

[UK1679666180]

The spent a lot of money on Edwin Jackson last year because they thought he could help now and in the future.

 

They gave him market value without a bidding war, Tanaka is completely different. One guy at 13 mil per since they bought the team is not an indication they're going well above teams that have shown they'll spend anything they want.

[Guest]

Wait, this is going all over the place. SSR said he fears payroll will remain low for 5 years and that the only thing that would convince him otherwise is if they sign Tanaka. Their level of interest in Tanaka, or his reasons for not picking the Cubs do not matter in this context. The context of the discussion is that the Cubs have to prove they are willing to spend for him to believe they are willing to spend and the only way to do that is to actually spend, not just hint that they have an interest in spending.

 

They do because he's asking SSR if he THINKS it's all for show. If SSR doesn't think the interest is fake and does think they will make Tanaka a real offer, why does it need to be signed to be proof of them not being in payroll hell for 5 years?

 

If he thinks they are willing and ready to spend a lot of money on Tanaka, that should be enough for him not to think they are going to be in payroll hell for years.

[jersey cubs fan]

The spent a lot of money on Edwin Jackson last year because they thought he could help now and in the future.

 

They gave him market value without a bidding war, Tanaka is completely different. One guy at 13 mil per since they bought the team is not an indication they're going well above teams that have shown they'll spend anything they want.

I don't get what you're saying. Obviously they have chosen not to spend a lot of money, but I think the point is they have also shown they do have the ability to spend money when they want to. And we all know they actually do have the money to spend.

[UK1679666180]

The spent a lot of money on Edwin Jackson last year because they thought he could help now and in the future.

 

They gave him market value without a bidding war, Tanaka is completely different. One guy at 13 mil per since they bought the team is not an indication they're going well above teams that have shown they'll spend anything they want.

I don't get what you're saying. Obviously they have chosen not to spend a lot of money, but I think the point is they have also shown they do have the ability to spend money when they want to. And we all know they actually do have the money to spend.

 

What CubinNY said was they could throw boatloads of cash to outspend everyone else in getting Tanaka, as you mentioned having the ability to and the willingness or two separate stories. I highly doubt they'll outspend everyone else to sway him from other more desirable cities. I predict the Cubs will be lumped with most of teams and either LAD or NYY having one extreme offer that blows away the others, it doesn't hurt his US agent is the same one that has Kershaw and Greinke as theirs.

[jersey cubs fan]

Wait, this is going all over the place. SSR said he fears payroll will remain low for 5 years and that the only thing that would convince him otherwise is if they sign Tanaka. Their level of interest in Tanaka, or his reasons for not picking the Cubs do not matter in this context. The context of the discussion is that the Cubs have to prove they are willing to spend for him to believe they are willing to spend and the only way to do that is to actually spend, not just hint that they have an interest in spending.

 

They do because he's asking SSR if he THINKS it's all for show. If SSR doesn't think the interest is fake and does think they will make Tanaka a real offer, why does it need to be signed to be proof of them not being in payroll hell for 5 years?

 

If he thinks they are willing and ready to spend a lot of money on Tanaka, that should be enough for him not to think they are going to be in payroll hell for years.

I think what SSR made clear was that barring an actual signing, reports of interest are meaningless to him.

[USSoccer]

Wait, this is going all over the place. SSR said he fears payroll will remain low for 5 years and that the only thing that would convince him otherwise is if they sign Tanaka. Their level of interest in Tanaka, or his reasons for not picking the Cubs do not matter in this context. The context of the discussion is that the Cubs have to prove they are willing to spend for him to believe they are willing to spend and the only way to do that is to actually spend, not just hint that they have an interest in spending.

 

They do because he's asking SSR if he THINKS it's all for show. If SSR doesn't think the interest is fake and does think they will make Tanaka a real offer, why does it need to be signed to be proof of them not being in payroll hell for 5 years?

 

If he thinks they are willing and ready to spend a lot of money on Tanaka, that should be enough for him not to think they are going to be in payroll hell for years.

 

Because interest in a player is meaningless unless they actually end up paying the guy. I'm sure they are interested, but it doesn't matter in the least bit with respect to what it means about the payroll unless they can back up the interest with enough money to turn interest into results.

[XZero771679666304]

Wait, this is going all over the place. SSR said he fears payroll will remain low for 5 years and that the only thing that would convince him otherwise is if they sign Tanaka. Their level of interest in Tanaka, or his reasons for not picking the Cubs do not matter in this context. The context of the discussion is that the Cubs have to prove they are willing to spend for him to believe they are willing to spend and the only way to do that is to actually spend, not just hint that they have an interest in spending.

 

They do because he's asking SSR if he THINKS it's all for show. If SSR doesn't think the interest is fake and does think they will make Tanaka a real offer, why does it need to be signed to be proof of them not being in payroll hell for 5 years?

 

If he thinks they are willing and ready to spend a lot of money on Tanaka, that should be enough for him not to think they are going to be in payroll hell for years.

 

Because interest in a player is meaningless unless they actually end up paying the guy. I'm sure they are interested, but it doesn't matter in the least bit with respect to what it means about the payroll unless they can back up the interest with enough money to turn interest into results.

 

If they are prepared to pay him a ton of money, that absolutely has implications as far as potential future payroll goes. It would mean there is at least money there to be spent.

 

If they offer Tanaka the biggest contract and he turns them down for non-monetary reasons (which I think is a distinct possibility), I will be disappointed, but it will alleviate at least some of my fear that there just isn't any money there.

[Guest]

Jeff Passan previews the 2014 Cubs, spends most of his time ripping Ricketts: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/no--29-cubs--cheap-club-looks-like-it-s-on-verge-of-another-woeful-year-165308395.html

[USSoccer]

Wait, this is going all over the place. SSR said he fears payroll will remain low for 5 years and that the only thing that would convince him otherwise is if they sign Tanaka. Their level of interest in Tanaka, or his reasons for not picking the Cubs do not matter in this context. The context of the discussion is that the Cubs have to prove they are willing to spend for him to believe they are willing to spend and the only way to do that is to actually spend, not just hint that they have an interest in spending.

 

They do because he's asking SSR if he THINKS it's all for show. If SSR doesn't think the interest is fake and does think they will make Tanaka a real offer, why does it need to be signed to be proof of them not being in payroll hell for 5 years?

 

If he thinks they are willing and ready to spend a lot of money on Tanaka, that should be enough for him not to think they are going to be in payroll hell for years.

 

Because interest in a player is meaningless unless they actually end up paying the guy. I'm sure they are interested, but it doesn't matter in the least bit with respect to what it means about the payroll unless they can back up the interest with enough money to turn interest into results.

 

If they are prepared to pay him a ton of money, that absolutely has implications as far as potential future payroll goes. It would mean there is at least money there to be spent.

 

If they offer Tanaka the biggest contract and he turns them down for non-monetary reasons (which I think is a distinct possibility), I will be disappointed, but it will alleviate at least some of my fear that there just isn't any money there.

 

I understand that. The problem is, is that the only definitive proof that they have the money to spend, is to actually spend it. Otherwise, you can claim whatever you want to try and appease these kinds of concerns.

[Guest]

Wait, this is going all over the place. SSR said he fears payroll will remain low for 5 years and that the only thing that would convince him otherwise is if they sign Tanaka. Their level of interest in Tanaka, or his reasons for not picking the Cubs do not matter in this context. The context of the discussion is that the Cubs have to prove they are willing to spend for him to believe they are willing to spend and the only way to do that is to actually spend, not just hint that they have an interest in spending.

 

They do because he's asking SSR if he THINKS it's all for show. If SSR doesn't think the interest is fake and does think they will make Tanaka a real offer, why does it need to be signed to be proof of them not being in payroll hell for 5 years?

 

If he thinks they are willing and ready to spend a lot of money on Tanaka, that should be enough for him not to think they are going to be in payroll hell for years.

I think what SSR made clear was that barring an actual signing, reports of interest are meaningless to him.

 

It's not about reports...he's asking him if he thinks the Cubs' efforts with Tanaka are legitimate and serious or not. If he does, then he shouldn't need Tanaka to actually decide to sign here to feel that there's money to be spent.

 

If he doesn't believe the Cubs efforts will be legit, then different story. I'm pretty sure that was TT's point in asking that.

[A New Era]

I have absolutely no doubt the Rickett's will give Theo the money for Tanaka. I don't like Kaplan but I trust he has his sources. The only thing that will stop Tanaka from coming here now is Tanaka himself. If he just likes the idea of playing for the Yankees, Dodgers, Mariners more, that is going to be the factor. Not money.

 

I just have to trust that Theo and Jed make a really really good impression. That's all that is going to save us now. Is the charisma and and smart negotiating skills.

[jersey cubs fan]

If they offer Tanaka the biggest contract and he turns them down for non-monetary reasons (which I think is a distinct possibility), I will be disappointed, but it will alleviate at least some of my fear that there just isn't any money there.

 

You'll never know if that is the case though, and any reports suggesting it to be the case will be suspect.

 

That is why the only thing that matters is if they actually do sign the guy. We can hear about interest and offers, and the willingness to spend, but as long as the actual spending does not go up, I don't see any way to take solace in the notion that they would theoretically spend more in a different world.

 

The money is there. That much is obvious. The willingness to allow it to be spent is the question.