The White Sox

[Castros trade value]

I've never been one to shed a year when that team goes bad, so this has been quite an enjoyable season. That said, I was listening to WSCR this morning and a White Sox fan called in and offered up the following:

 

The White Sox were 24-24 in late May, just off a sweep of the Marlins and were about to begin a series with the Cubs. The Cubs went on to beat them down in three straight games and set the White Sox on a spin they never came out of. Since that time when they were .500, they have gone an astounding 16 and 42. That's right, they've lost 42 of their last 58 games since the start of the Cubs series.

 

That's a special kind of bad. I know things have been tough here as we rebuild but at least we are not living through that kind of season. :stickman:

Edited August 1, 2013 by Castro's trade value

[bukie]

They now have a worse record than the Marlins, a feat once thought only possible in myths and legends.

[Castros trade value]

They now have a worse record than the Marlins, a feat once thought only possible in myths and legends.

 

That is really hard to do. They're not even fun bad, they're just [expletive] terrible and awful and all of that.

[Guest]

Marlins started 16-44 and are 25-21 since then. There was a time that Miami looked more likely than Houston to finish with the worst record, now Houston is the overwhelming favorite.

[Castros trade value]

http://dailyupperdecker.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/hawk-150x150.jpg"You've got to be bleeping me!"

[sneakypower]

They now have a worse record than the Marlins, a feat once thought only possible in myths and legends.

but...they have a much higher payroll

 

???

[PackLandVA]

They're not even fun bad, they're just [expletive] terrible and awful and all of that.

 

I beg to differ. They are exceptionally fun bad! I love it every day! :twisted:

[SouthSideRyan]

They now have a worse record than the Marlins, a feat once thought only possible in myths and legends.

but...they have a much higher payroll

 

???

 

Imagine how much worse the Marlins would be if they spent another 70 million.

[XZero771679666304]

They now have a worse record than the Marlins, a feat once thought only possible in myths and legends.

but...they have a much higher payroll

 

???

 

Imagine how much worse the Marlins would be if they spent another 70 million.

 

If last year is any indication, they wouldn't be much better.

[apete6]

They're not even fun bad, they're just [expletive] terrible and awful and all of that.

 

I beg to differ. They are exceptionally fun bad! I love it every day! :twisted:

 

Yeah, this is enjoyable. Apparently they haven't been this bad since 1980, so this is the worst White Sox team in my lifetime. I'd be lying if I said I didn't like it. The Sox have always been competitive.

[UMFan83]

The best part is they are kind of doing this halfass rebuild, and are kind of straddling the line between a complete gut of the team, and entertaining dreams of competing next year. Their farm system sucks, their offense sucks, their management sucks. They might be bad (or at best mediocre) for awhile.

[Thed Hoyerstein]

They're not even fun bad, they're just [expletive] terrible and awful and all of that.

 

I beg to differ. They are exceptionally fun bad! I love it every day! :twisted:

 

Yeah, this is enjoyable. Apparently they haven't been this bad since 1980, so this is the worst White Sox team in my lifetime. I'd be lying if I said I didn't like it. The Sox have always been competitive.

 

2007? They've had just as many playoff appearances in the past 20 years as have the Cubs. Granted, it's pathetic for both sides of town, but they haven't been exponentially, 2005 withstanding, better than the Cubs in our lifetime (assuming early 80's on).

[UMFan83]

They're not even fun bad, they're just [expletive] terrible and awful and all of that.

 

I beg to differ. They are exceptionally fun bad! I love it every day! :twisted:

 

Yeah, this is enjoyable. Apparently they haven't been this bad since 1980, so this is the worst White Sox team in my lifetime. I'd be lying if I said I didn't like it. The Sox have always been competitive.

 

2007? They've had just as many playoff appearances in the past 20 years as have the Cubs. Granted, it's pathetic for both sides of town, but they haven't been exponentially, 2005 withstanding, better than the Cubs in our lifetime (assuming early 80's on).

 

Yeah but we have more in the last 15 years

 

00-05-08 vs. 98-03-07-08 so HA

[apete6]

Cubs have had more playoff appearances and really good teams, but the Sox have been more consistently competitive.

 

The White Sox haven't finished in last place in their division since 1989 and before that, 1976. Since 1990, the White Sox have finished lower than 3rd in their division only once (2007) and been more than 5 games below .500 only 3 times.

 

Since 1990, The Cubs have finished last 5 times and been below 3rd in the division 15 times and more than 5 games below .500 13 times. Pretty damn bad.

[XZero771679666304]

Yeah, the Sox are in pretty dire shape. They have a few good starters, but their offense is old and bad and there is nothing on the farm to draw from or deal for help. It used to be that they always seemed to have help coming up from the minors, but that's a dry well right now. What they need is a purge/rebuild, though I hope they try and avoid it because that will prolong their mediocrity. I thought Hahn was smart, but maybe last season's improbable success has clouded their perception of where the franchise is. I think they are at least 2-3 years away from competition.

[Thed Hoyerstein]

Cubs have had more playoff appearances and really good teams, but the Sox have been more consistently competitive.

 

The White Sox haven't finished in last place in their division since 1989 and before that, 1976. Since 1990, the White Sox have finished lower than 3rd in their division only once (2007) and been more than 5 games below .500 only 3 times.

 

Since 1990, The Cubs have finished last 5 times and been below 3rd in the division 15 times and more than 5 games below .500 13 times. Pretty damn bad.

 

It's weird that you pick out arbitrary stats like 5 games under .500, no lower than third in their division, and a starting point of 1990, which eliminates the '89 Cubs and the terrible Sox teams of the 80's.

 

I mean, if you're 4 games under .500, finish 3rd and 16 games out of first, are you really competitive?

 

Another arbitrary stat- there's only been 7 instances since 1980 where the White Sox have either won their division or finished no further than 5 games behind.

 

Recently, there's no doubt that they've been more consistent along with 2005 title, but they haven't really had the consistent playoff appearances as a whole.

[Sammy Sofa]

Hey, I'll agree that it seemed like the White Sox were more competitive in the 90's; not that it necessarily ended well for them (it usually didn't), but I definitely remember it seeming like they were at least in the hunt for more of the season than the Cubs were.

[Sammy Sofa]

Yeah, the Sox are in pretty dire shape. They have a few good starters, but their offense is old and bad and there is nothing on the farm to draw from or deal for help. It used to be that they always seemed to have help coming up from the minors, but that's a dry well right now. What they need is a purge/rebuild, though I hope they try and avoid it because that will prolong their mediocrity. I thought Hahn was smart, but maybe last season's improbable success has clouded their perception of where the franchise is. I think they are at least 2-3 years away from competition.

 

I wonder how much of it is Hahn and how much of it is Kenny still running the show.

[apete6]

Cubs have had more playoff appearances and really good teams, but the Sox have been more consistently competitive.

 

The White Sox haven't finished in last place in their division since 1989 and before that, 1976. Since 1990, the White Sox have finished lower than 3rd in their division only once (2007) and been more than 5 games below .500 only 3 times.

 

Since 1990, The Cubs have finished last 5 times and been below 3rd in the division 15 times and more than 5 games below .500 13 times. Pretty damn bad.

 

It's weird that you pick out arbitrary stats like 5 games under .500, no lower than third in their division, and a starting point of 1990, which eliminates the '89 Cubs and the terrible Sox teams of the 80's.

 

I mean, if you're 4 games under .500, finish 3rd and 16 games out of first, are you really competitive?

 

Another arbitrary stat- there's only been 7 instances since 1980 where the White Sox have either won their division or finished no further than 5 games behind.

 

Recently, there's no doubt that they've been more consistent along with 2005 title, but they haven't really had the consistent playoff appearances as a whole.

 

Start and endpoints were pretty arbitrary. I picked 1990 as that was when Frank Thomas came in, the Sox changed their uniforms, etc... Kind of dumb, but a nice round year. I would say that a 79-83 season is a hell of a lot better than a 65 win season. If we went to just seasons under .500, the results would have been basically the same.

 

No, the Sox aren't a dynasty or anything, but its pretty obvious that they have been overall more competitive than the Cubs. They have had 12 85+ win teams since 1990 compared to the Cubs' 6.

[PackLandVA]

In 2012, the White Sox were fundamentally sound. They played excellent defense, they ran the bases well and were pretty good at situational baseball. They were a veteran team with a 1st year manager that almost won the division.

 

Fast forward 1 year and they are not fundamentally sound. They are terrible on defense, run the bases awful and are poor at situational baseball. They may be the worst team in the league.

 

I know the players on the field are usually mostly responsible for their play, but at what point is the manager and/or coaching staff MORE responsible?? This is essentially the same team from last year. The biggest difference is Ventura inherited a team from Ozzie, possibly a team that was fundamentally sound. And in 1 year, their play has gotten significantly worse. If it were just production, the age/ability of all those vets could maybe be blamed. But they are just a completely different team (aside from pitching). I really think Ventura's easy going approach has allowed the team to underachieve. They don't field well, can't hit the right cutoff man, run the bases terribly, can't move runners over or get them in from 3rd with less than 2 outs, etc.

 

How did all of this change so dramatically from one year to the next with essentially the same team if it isn't the coaching???

[NewUserName]

In 2012, the White Sox were fundamentally sound. They played excellent defense, they ran the bases well and were pretty good at situational baseball. They were a veteran team with a 1st year manager that almost won the division.

 

Fast forward 1 year and they are not fundamentally sound. They are terrible on defense, run the bases awful and are poor at situational baseball. They may be the worst team in the league.

 

I know the players on the field are usually mostly responsible for their play, but at what point is the manager and/or coaching staff MORE responsible?? This is essentially the same team from last year. The biggest difference is Ventura inherited a team from Ozzie, possibly a team that was fundamentally sound. And in 1 year, their play has gotten significantly worse. If it were just production, the age/ability of all those vets could maybe be blamed. But they are just a completely different team (aside from pitching). I really think Ventura's easy going approach has allowed the team to underachieve. They don't field well, can't hit the right cutoff man, run the bases terribly, can't move runners over or get them in from 3rd with less than 2 outs, etc.

 

How did all of this change so dramatically from one year to the next with essentially the same team if it isn't the coaching???

I always thought that once you got past all the Ozzie drama and crap, that he was actually a decent manager. There is just no way I would want all the other stuff that came with him.

[Little Slide Rooter]

If not for one magical October run, would Kenny Williams legacy be any better if not worse than that of Jim Hendry? The overall results including the mess he left behind are really not all that different.

[PackLandVA]

If not for one magical October run.......

 

And if memory serves correct, the amazing October was preceded by a disastrous August/September in which a 13-14 game lead was whittled down to 1 1/2 with 2 or 3 to play. That season was close to becoming the greatest choke of all time.

[neely crenshaw]

Sad part is that Hahn will get blamed and be fired and kenny will stay put as prez...

 

bottom line is they are in trouble for a long time. They have very little coming up, they won't spend their way out of it and almost anyone that has come up seems to have bottomed out far below expectations other than Sale.

On top of that who could they possibly deal to even start to re-stock? Rios..maybe.

[UMFan83]

Rios + $1 million to the Rangers for a PTBNL

 

Also, apparently Hahn said the White Sox are going to try to compete next year.