Marmol to Dodgers for Guerrier, July 2 Slot Madness Ensues

[Guest]

Pundits seem to be neutral to positive on the Cubs side of the trade, which is weird, because I'm not happy with it either. Maybe we just expected too much out of Feldman.

 

Pundits are stupid.

 

Except when they agree with you.

 

Obviously, I meant the good ones.

[mul21]

Yeah, even if I can rationalize the Feldman and Torreyes deals, I've got nothing for sending the Dodgers IFA money in a Marmol/Guerrier swap. I couldn't give two [expletive] about saving payroll, when our payroll is already squarely in the middle of the pack.

 

Maybe we're so strapped for cash and poor now that we had to save money in the deal in order to actually pay for all these IFAs we are signing.

Ricketts=McCourt basically? With the forethought to at least have a competent FO.

 

No way. The money is getting dumped back into other areas of the franchise and just isn't available for player payroll right now. I'd be dumbfounded if that turned out to be the case.

[Guest]

I wasn't happy with the Feldman return. Have no idea why we didn't just cut Marmol instead of giving up a small IFA piece. But I HATE giving up Torreyes for a relatively small amount of IFA space. Hell, even after these moves I'm not sure we have enough IFA money left to get Jimenez and Moreno without still paying the damn penalty next year. The only potential bright spot I see is it opens 2B up for Alcantara and SS for Baez at Tennessee. But they could have figured that out without dealing Torreyes. [expletive].

 

The Feldman return is the thing I'm least happy about. Given the choice between Torreyes and 600k in IFA money(plus several mil saved on Marmol's deal), I'm pretty ambivalent. If that money is put towards someone who they believe in(and obviously has a greater ceiling than Torreyes) and it seems like it is, then that's an okay deal for me, if a bit odd. I think Torreyes' value is a bit distorted here. He didn't make BA's Top 30 before the season. He has no defensive, positional, power, or speed value. He had one thing, a great hit tool, and that has abandoned him at higher levels. He's closer to MiLB roster fill than he is to being an MLB starter.

 

Pundits seem to be neutral to positive on the Cubs side of the trade, which is weird, because I'm not happy with it either. Maybe we just expected too much out of Feldman.

 

Yeah, it's possible I'm not giving Arrieta his full due, but he has been around quite a while. I was hoping for someone like Steve Johnson as part of the deal, I would've loved to give him an extended audition as a pen arm instead of Strop.

[Guest]

CHICAGO – The Chicago Cubs today acquired two international signing bonus slots (slot numbers two and three) from the Houston Astros for minor league infielder Ronald Torreyes.

 

Torreyes was originally acquired by the Cubs with left-handed pitcher Travis Wood and outfielder Dave Sappelt from Cincinnati for left-handed pitcher Sean Marshall on December 23, 2011. Torreyes batted .260 (58-for-223) with two home runs and 25 RBI in 64 games with Double-A Tennessee this season.

[Guest]

OAKLAND – The Chicago Cubs today acquired right-handed pitcher Matt Guerrier from the Los Angeles Dodgers for right-handed pitcher Carlos Marmol. The Dodgers also acquired international signing bonus slot number four from the Cubs as part of the deal. Guerrier is expected to report to the Cubs later this week.

 

Guerrier, 34, has gone 25-33 with 112 holds, six saves and a 3.54 ERA (229 ER/582.1 IP) in 513 major league appearances, all but three in relief, in all or part of 10 seasons with the Minnesota Twins (2004-10) and Dodgers (2011-13). He went 2-3 with three holds and a 4.80 ERA (16 ER/30.0 IP) in 34 relief outings with Los Angeles this season before being designated for assignment on Sunday.

 

The 6-foot-3, 185-pound Guerrier broke into the majors with the Twins in 2004 and had a breakout campaign in 2007 when he went 2-4 with 14 holds and a 2.35 ERA (23 ER/88.0 IP) in 73 appearances. In 2009, he set career bests with 79 appearances and 33 holds, tied for most in the majors, while going 5-1 with a 2.36 ERA (20 ER/76.1 IP). Guerrier signed a three-year contract with the Dodgers prior to the 2011 season. He posted a 3.86 ERA (6 ER/14.0 IP) last season while limited to 16 outings due to right elbow tendinitis.

 

Marmol, 30, went 2-4 with two saves and a 5.86 ERA (18 ER/27.2 IP) in 31 relief appearances this season before being designated for assignment on June 25. He struck out 32 and walked 21 batters in 27.2 innings pitched, an average of 10.4 strikeouts and 6.8 walks per nine innings.

 

The righthander originally signed with the Cubs as a non-drafted free agent on July 3, 1999. Signed as a catcher, Marmol converted to a pitcher prior to the 2003 season and made his big league debut in 2006. A National League All-Star in 2008 as a set-up man, Marmol holds the franchise mark with 82 career holds. Marmol became the closer in late 2009 and compiled 117 saves, third most in team history. Overall, he went 23-32 with a 3.50 ERA (211 ER/542.1 IP) in 483 appearances with the Cubs, 470 in relief.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Pundits seem to be neutral to positive on the Cubs side of the trade, which is weird, because I'm not happy with it either. Maybe we just expected too much out of Feldman.

 

Pundits are stupid.

 

Except when they agree with you.

 

Obviously, I meant the good ones.

 

Correct. Blind squirrels, nuts, etc.

[Rob]

I think last year's Maholm trade had people expecting a bit too much out of a Feldman deal this time.

[ctcf]

I wasn't happy with the Feldman return. Have no idea why we didn't just cut Marmol instead of giving up a small IFA piece. But I HATE giving up Torreyes for a relatively small amount of IFA space. Hell, even after these moves I'm not sure we have enough IFA money left to get Jimenez and Moreno without still paying the damn penalty next year. The only potential bright spot I see is it opens 2B up for Alcantara and SS for Baez at Tennessee. But they could have figured that out without dealing Torreyes. [expletive].

 

The Feldman return is the thing I'm least happy about. Given the choice between Torreyes and 600k in IFA money(plus several mil saved on Marmol's deal), I'm pretty ambivalent. If that money is put towards someone who they believe in(and obviously has a greater ceiling than Torreyes) and it seems like it is, then that's an okay deal for me, if a bit odd. I think Torreyes' value is a bit distorted here. He didn't make BA's Top 30 before the season. He has no defensive, positional, power, or speed value. He had one thing, a great hit tool, and that has abandoned him at higher levels. He's closer to MiLB roster fill than he is to being an MLB starter.

 

Pundits seem to be neutral to positive on the Cubs side of the trade, which is weird, because I'm not happy with it either. Maybe we just expected too much out of Feldman.

 

I think we all did. Looking at the guy objectively, he's not that valuable of a piece.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Yeah, even if I can rationalize the Feldman and Torreyes deals, I've got nothing for sending the Dodgers IFA money in a Marmol/Guerrier swap. I couldn't give two [expletive] about saving payroll, when our payroll is already squarely in the middle of the pack.

 

Maybe we're so strapped for cash and poor now that we had to save money in the deal in order to actually pay for all these IFAs we are signing.

Ricketts=McCourt basically? With the forethought to at least have a competent FO.

 

No way. The money is getting dumped back into other areas of the franchise and just isn't available for player payroll right now. I'd be dumbfounded if that turned out to be the case.

 

I was actually joking. But the fact that it seems plausible to some people says a lot about how badly things have gone lately on the financial front :(

[Guest]

Cubs get:

- Jake Arrieta

- Pedro Strop

- Matt Guerrier

- $963,100 in International Bonus Pool money (total)

 

Cubs lose:

- Scott Feldman (to BAL)

- Carlos Marmol (to LAD)

- Steve Clevenger (to BAL)

- Ronald Torreyes (to HOU)

 

Is the only part of Marmol's contract we're paying the #4 slot? If so, we saved a truckload of money in these deals.

 

Edit:

 

Didn't realize Guerrier was that expensive.

 

I got $999,100 in bonus money.

 

$273,200 + $150,900 (Baltimore 3 & 4) + $468,400 + $316,300 (Houston 2 & 3) - $209,700 (Cubs 4 to LA).

 

I wonder if the Cubs get a 5% overage on acquired pools too.

 

Yours looks right. I probably typo'd somewhere.

 

Edit:

 

Nevermind. MLBTR is saying $963,100 too.

 

Yeah, Twitter consensus is $963,100. Wonder where I erred.

 

EDIT: Baltimore's 3rd slot is $237,200, not $273,200. $963,100 is right.

[Guest]

I think last year's Maholm trade had people expecting a bit too much out of a Feldman deal this time.

 

But that team option is huge.

[Tyrant]

It's like 10-12 starts from Scott Feldman. I don't know what people were reasonably expecting.

[ctcf]

I think last year's Maholm trade had people expecting a bit too much out of a Feldman deal this time.

 

But that team option is huge.

 

Exactly.

[Little Slide Rooter]

It's like 10-12 starts from Scott Feldman. I don't know what people were reasonably expecting.

 

Another 21 year old top prospect coming off of TJS.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I think last year's Maholm trade had people expecting a bit too much out of a Feldman deal this time.

 

But that team option is huge.

 

I'd rather have the return from the Campana trade than what we got for Feldman.

[imb]

Torreyes is a nobody. He's never going to amount to anything. He's the size of a [expletive] gymnast and his only appreciable skill is the ability to make weak contact so he doesn't strike out. He's a nothing.

[ctcf]

Torreyes is a nobody. He's never going to amount to anything. He's the size of a [expletive] gymnast and his only appreciable skill is the ability to make weak contact so he doesn't strike out. He's a nothing.

 

I wouldn't go that far, but I also had soured on the guy quite a bit. Doubt he'd make even make my top 20. It's funny seeing people say he's too much for IFA money when there's no concept of what the actual market is like (on our end, at least).

[Bryants Disco Ball]

It's like 10-12 starts from Scott Feldman. I don't know what people were reasonably expecting.

 

This.

 

Imagine if it was the other way around. I wouldn't be giddy today if our contending team just acquired Scott Feldman. In fact, I'd think we'd all be saying that if that's all we are going to do, then we suck. And then somebody would complain about how we gave up a once touted prospect for Feldman.

 

I'll take lottery tickets, including one guy who still has some potential and was highly thought of just a few years ago, for a back of the rotation guy who wasn't going to be here next year.

[scarey]

I feel like the IFA money is being undervalued here. When you look at the money figure the Cubs got out of it, I agree it does not look impressive. However, think about it in terms of player acquisition. The Cubs signed Jefferson Mejia for just under the amount of pool money they acquired through the moves today.

 

Now, I know Mejia is far from a sure thing, but he is a kid with a ton of upside. If I told you we traded Feldman, Clevenger, and Torreyes for a 6'7 220 lb 18 year old that can throw in the low 90s with top of the rotation ceiling, would that make you feel any better?

[Guest]

I think last year's Maholm trade had people expecting a bit too much out of a Feldman deal this time.

 

But that team option is huge.

 

I'd rather have the return from the Campana trade than what we got for Feldman.

 

Maybe Arrieta is another of those buy low SPs our FO is so good at finding. I thought we were all pretty confident in their ability to find those guys.

[Fro]

I think the key here is any of these IFA we sign with the extra money can be flipped again down the road. They're assets we can use to get better.

 

It's not a case of "wait X years for them to make it to the majors or bust".

[VVMattVV]

If I told you we traded Feldman, Clevenger, and Torreyes for a 6'7 220 lb 18 year old that can throw in the low 90s with top of the rotation ceiling, would that make you feel any better?

 

No.

[SouthSideRyan]

It's like 10-12 starts from Scott Feldman. I don't know what people were reasonably expecting.

 

Something that's not old and terrible?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Torreyes is a nobody. He's never going to amount to anything. He's the size of a [expletive] gymnast and his only appreciable skill is the ability to make weak contact so he doesn't strike out. He's a nothing.

 

I wouldn't go that far, but I also had soured on the guy quite a bit. Doubt he'd make even make my top 20. It's funny seeing people say he's too much for IFA money when there's no concept of what the actual market is like (on our end, at least).

 

I don't need to know what the market is to know what the approximate value of the 4th or 5th best IFA in our yearly signing period haul is.

[jersey cubs fan]

I feel like the IFA money is being undervalued here. When you look at the money figure the Cubs got out of it, I agree it does not look impressive. However, think about it in terms of player acquisition. The Cubs signed Jefferson Mejia for just under the amount of pool money they acquired through the moves today.

 

Now, I know Mejia is far from a sure thing, but he is a kid with a ton of upside. If I told you we traded Feldman, Clevenger, and Torreyes for a 6'7 220 lb 18 year old that can throw in the low 90s with top of the rotation ceiling, would that make you feel any better?

 

No, because they could have signed without making any of those trades.