Random Cubs Musings

[jersey cubs fan]

If he actually rebounds, I'd rather just keep the 23 year old 3+ win shortstop.

 

But what if we have a full set of other 3-win infielders?

Full set? For one, we won't. For two, that's why God made the outfield.

[SouthSideRyan]

If he actually rebounds, I'd rather just keep the 23 year old 3+ win shortstop.

 

But what if we have a full set of other 3-win infielders?

 

I can't imagine a scenario where Olt/Villanueva, Baez, and Alcantara have all established themselves as 3 win infielders this season.

[davell]

I don't think you can trade Starlin for strictly minor leaguers. If he bounces back, you've got to get back a major league starter(if really young, its OK if he's struggled some obviously) that has frontline ability, plus minor leaguers. Or you could trade him as part of a package for something elite. Position be damned.

 

Teams that have a SS need are the Yanks, Rays(longterm anyway), Twins, Angels(longterm), Marlins, Mets, Phillies(longterm), Reds, Pirates, and Giants.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

If he actually rebounds, I'd rather just keep the 23 year old 3+ win shortstop.

 

But what if we have a full set of other 3-win infielders?

 

I can't imagine a scenario where Olt/Villanueva, Baez, and Alcantara have all established themselves as 3 win infielders this season.

 

 

Bryant/Baez/Alcantara/Rizzo

[Guest]

If he actually rebounds, I'd rather just keep the 23 year old 3+ win shortstop.

 

But what if we have a full set of other 3-win infielders?

 

I can't imagine a scenario where Olt/Villanueva, Baez, and Alcantara have all established themselves as 3 win infielders this season.

 

 

Bryant/Baez/Alcantara/Rizzo

 

How is that all going to happen (all of those players establishing themselves as 3 win major leaguers) and a Castro rebound to 3 win status at the same time?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I guess that depends on what you mean by "establish." I don't think you have to have a 3-win season already in the books from those guys to warrant a Castro trade.

[SouthSideRyan]

If he actually rebounds, I'd rather just keep the 23 year old 3+ win shortstop.

 

But what if we have a full set of other 3-win infielders?

 

I can't imagine a scenario where Olt/Villanueva, Baez, and Alcantara have all established themselves as 3 win infielders this season.

 

 

Bryant/Baez/Alcantara/Rizzo

 

Bryant goes to RF

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Bryant goes to RF

 

Sure, we could do that. But that leaves us with a SS who hasn't adapted well to our preferred offensive approach and is probably the only asset on the team with the value to return the kind of pitching we need to be competitive in 2015/16.

[SouthSideRyan]

Bryant goes to RF

 

Sure, we could do that. But that leaves us with a SS who hasn't adapted well to our preferred offensive approach and is probably the only asset on the team with the value to return the kind of pitching we need to be competitive in 2015/16.

 

Our preferred offensive approach is to be a good offensive player. Do we not need an OF to be competitive in 2015/2016?

[jersey cubs fan]

Bryant goes to RF

 

Sure, we could do that. But that leaves us with a SS who hasn't adapted well to our preferred offensive approach and is probably the only asset on the team with the value to return the kind of pitching we need to be competitive in 2015/16.

 

If you have 4 3 WAR IF and a 3 WAR RF all under 25 do you really need that great of pitching to be competitive in 2015/16?

 

At that point, keep the runs flowing and let average pitching get the job done.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

If you have 4 3 WAR IF and a 3 WAR RF all under 25 do you really need that great of pitching to be competitive in 2015/16?

 

At that point, keep the runs flowing and let average pitching get the job done.

 

Someone's being used suboptimally in that situation. Bryant may be a 3-win 3b but only a 2-win RF.

[Guest]

At that point, one of the other extra infielders would be a pretty comparable value on the trade market too.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

At that point, one of the other extra infielders would be a pretty comparable value on the trade market too.

 

If I'm taking bets on which one they trade, I'll take the guy who makes $10m/year pretty soon and pooped the bed when they tried to get him to hit their way.

 

Not saying it's right or wrong, just Theowhispering.

[SouthSideRyan]

If you have 4 3 WAR IF and a 3 WAR RF all under 25 do you really need that great of pitching to be competitive in 2015/16?

 

At that point, keep the runs flowing and let average pitching get the job done.

 

Someone's being used suboptimally in that situation. Bryant may be a 3-win 3b but only a 2-win RF.

 

Or Baez may be a 4 win 3B and a 3 win SS. Or Bryant may be a 2 win 3B and a 3 win RF

[davell]

I think everything depends on if Javy CAN stick at SS myself. If he can, I feel very confident that 1B and 3B will be settled headed into 2014. Between Olt, KB, and Villanueva, I think we're going to be just fine at 3B.

 

That leaves 2B as the only true question, in my opinion. If Javy looks good at SS, then I guess you weigh what you can get in trade for Castro versus what you can get for Alcantara and maybe Vogelbach, as a package. If the packages are close, then you'd need to decide if you think Alcantara is going to provide you with close to the same production as what you feel you're safely going to get out of Starlin.

 

One way or the other though, if Starlin bounces back AND Alcantara continues on his current path, it's likely one or the other is gone by Opening Day 2014, in my mind. Unless Javy really takes a step backwards, which I don't see happening.

[jersey cubs fan]

If you have 4 3 WAR IF and a 3 WAR RF all under 25 do you really need that great of pitching to be competitive in 2015/16?

 

At that point, keep the runs flowing and let average pitching get the job done.

 

Someone's being used suboptimally in that situation. Bryant may be a 3-win 3b but only a 2-win RF.

 

Much like the goal is not to pay the least amount of dollars per win, or fielding the most efficient roster. The goal is also not to avoid any sub optimal situation. Insisting on trading away quality young cost controlled players to avoid a sub optimal utilization of another player is a good way to throw away production.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Much like the goal is not to pay the least amount of dollars per win, or fielding the most efficient roster. The goal is also not to avoid any sub optimal situation. Insisting on trading away quality young cost controlled players to avoid a sub optimal utilization of another player is a good way to throw away production.

 

Not if you get back a young, cost-controlled player of similar talent at a position where you can use them optimally. That's pretty much the entire point of trades.

[Guest]

If you have 4 3 WAR IF and a 3 WAR RF all under 25 do you really need that great of pitching to be competitive in 2015/16?

 

At that point, keep the runs flowing and let average pitching get the job done.

 

Someone's being used suboptimally in that situation. Bryant may be a 3-win 3b but only a 2-win RF.

That's one way to use WAR sillyly

[SouthSideRyan]

This whole stupid argument is going to look dumber in March '15 when we have Valbuena-Castro-Bonifacio-Rizzo as our infield.

[XZero771679666304]

I think everything depends on if Javy CAN stick at SS myself. If he can, I feel very confident that 1B and 3B will be settled headed into 2014. Between Olt, KB, and Villanueva, I think we're going to be just fine at 3B.

 

That leaves 2B as the only true question, in my opinion. If Javy looks good at SS, then I guess you weigh what you can get in trade for Castro versus what you can get for Alcantara and maybe Vogelbach, as a package. If the packages are close, then you'd need to decide if you think Alcantara is going to provide you with close to the same production as what you feel you're safely going to get out of Starlin.

 

One way or the other though, if Starlin bounces back AND Alcantara continues on his current path, it's likely one or the other is gone by Opening Day 2014, in my mind. Unless Javy really takes a step backwards, which I don't see happening.

 

If Olt does not rebound, I have a difficult time envisioning Javy anywhere but 3B, and Bryant in the OF. In fact, I would go so far as to say that I would be stunned if Bryant is the Cubs' regular 3B at any point. I don't think Castro is going anywhere anytime soon.

 

The X factor here is clearly Olt. If he rebounds, that is going to open up a lot of possibilities, and create a bit of a logjam.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Villanueva is in the picture as well.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

This whole stupid argument is going to look dumber in March '15 when we have Valbuena-Castro-Bonifacio-Rizzo as our infield.

 

And Castro is coming off the worst season out of all of them.

[squally1313]

Castro doesn't make over $10m for 4 more years. If he rebounds to a 3-4 win shortstop, he goes back to being one of the best values in baseball. And he's 23 for another 2 months. I need more than minor league stats and 200 MLB PAs from Bryant and Baez to get rid of him.

 

And let's keep Javy and KB's K and BB rates in mind before bringing up Starlin's offensive approach. They basically match what Starlin did, with more strikeouts.

[XZero771679666304]

Villanueva is in the picture as well.

 

Yeah, and I like him, but I suppose I have him in the trade bait category in my mind (provided Javy and Bryant both make it).

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Castro doesn't make over $10m for 4 more years. If he rebounds to a 3-4 win shortstop, he goes back to being one of the best values in baseball. And he's 23 for another 2 months. I need more than minor league stats and 200 MLB PAs from Bryant and Baez to get rid of him.

 

And let's keep Javy and KB's K and BB rates in mind before bringing up Starlin's offensive approach. They basically match what Starlin did, with more strikeouts.

 

And dingers!