Really exciting discussion of Indiana hoops transfer ethics

[Formerly Snayke]

Figured we should start this? I'll start:

 

I hate Kentucky.

[Guest]

I hate UCLA.

 

:(

[Rex Buckingham]

glad Pressey won't be back at Mizzou... maybe the Illini can win the Braggin' Rights game again

[Formerly Snayke]

glad Pressey won't be back at Mizzou... maybe the Illini can win the Braggin' Rights game again

 

How does Illinois look next season? Missouri was going to struggle even with Pressey back.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Iowa will be even uglier next season following the departure of the sexy Eric May.

http://vmedia.rivals.com/IMAGES/PROSPECT/PHOTO/JARRODUTHOFF430_150.JPG

http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/headshots/recruiting/ncb/players/190/104707.jpg&w=190&h=254

[Sosa21MVP]

There are rumors that Remy Abell is going to transfer. Not coincidentally Crean is recruiting a 2013 point guard that was Northwestern bound before Carmody got fired.

[SouthSideRyan]

How does Etherington keep surviving?

[pitchcs]

glad Pressey won't be back at Mizzou... maybe the Illini can win the Braggin' Rights game again

 

How does Illinois look next season? Missouri was going to struggle even with Pressey back.

 

Hope for middle of the Big Ten.

 

Abrams - JR

Rayvonte Rice - JR (?)

Joe Bertrand - RS SR

Myke Henry - JR

Egwu - JR

 

4 incoming Freshmen who should at least see minutes (Nunn yes, Malcolm Hill yes, Mav Morgan yes, Jaylon Tate yes). Will hopefully add a transfer.

[SouthSideRyan]

Creek would not be allowed to use his 5th year assuming nobody else decides they'd fit better elsewhere.

[Exile on Waveland]

How does Etherington keep surviving?

 

Because this issue has mainly been fabricated in the minds of Purdue/Illinois fans.

 

Illinois, you know, the program that just had how many players transfer?

[Magnetic Curses]

How does Etherington keep surviving?

 

Because this issue has mainly been fabricated in the minds of Purdue/Illinois fans.

 

Illinois, you know, the program that just had how many players transfer?

 

how many of those kids were groce's?

[Exile on Waveland]

How does Etherington keep surviving?

 

Because this issue has mainly been fabricated in the minds of Purdue/Illinois fans.

 

Illinois, you know, the program that just had how many players transfer?

 

how many of those kids were groce's?

 

It's always easy to rationalize when it's the program you root for, isn't it?

[bukie]

How does Etherington keep surviving?

 

Because this issue has mainly been fabricated in the minds of Purdue/Illinois fans.

 

Illinois, you know, the program that just had how many players transfer?

It's not as if Illinois overcommitted on scholarships so that they had to find creative ways to get rid of kids.

 

This case, it just sounds like the kids wanted to play more than they were at Illinois, and Groce was up front about things and told them they weren't going to play much there.

[Exile on Waveland]

How does Etherington keep surviving?

 

Because this issue has mainly been fabricated in the minds of Purdue/Illinois fans.

 

Illinois, you know, the program that just had how many players transfer?

It's not as if Illinois overcommitted on scholarships so that they had to find creative ways to get rid of kids.

 

This case, it just sounds like the kids wanted to play more than they were at Illinois, and Groce was up front about things and told them they weren't going to play much there.

 

This is just more rationalizing. Players leave Illinois because they want to play more . . . players leave IU because IU's coach is a meanie (and, of course, was not up front and did not tell players they weren't going to play much there because, well, what exactly? Because Illinois fans that hate IU will it so?).

 

Players that have left IU for more playing time/to be closer to home have been used by this board, ad nauseam, to prove that "Creaning" exists. Meanwhile, only one such player left when there was a scholarship crunch (Capobianco). That player was "Creaned"; sure, there's little way around that. (The only other player that has left when IU was under a scholarship crunch was Ron Patterson. Patterson was admitted to the university on a contingency basis, failed to make his grades, and violated the honor code (the honor code, by the way, prohibits cheating). Moreover, he ended up at Syracuse. If this was just a Machiavellian "Creaning" why not "Crean," say, Maurice Creek or Peter Jurkin or Austin Etherington or Remy Abell? Would any of those players have ended up at a program of Syracuse's ilk? Or even at a BCS program?)

[XZero771679666304]

How does Etherington keep surviving?

 

Because this issue has mainly been fabricated in the minds of Purdue/Illinois fans.

 

Illinois, you know, the program that just had how many players transfer?

 

how many of those kids were groce's?

 

It's always easy to rationalize when it's the program you root for, isn't it?

 

You really don't see the difference between over committing players you recruit, knowing that you'll almost certainly have to force them out later, and a new coach telling players the previous coach recruited that they won't get much playing time in his system and them transferring? Really? Even if Groce didn't play these kids just because he didn't want them, it's much less disingenuous than recruiting kids and then doing it to them.

 

Neither scenario is what you would call ideal, but one is decidedly worse then the other.

 

I don't think Illini fans are the ones rationalizing here.

[SouthSideRyan]

Of course, the term started at Wisconsin whjen Creapy was at Marquette. But maybe that's just because BO OWNS CREAN

[Exile on Waveland]

How does Etherington keep surviving?

 

Because this issue has mainly been fabricated in the minds of Purdue/Illinois fans.

 

Illinois, you know, the program that just had how many players transfer?

 

how many of those kids were groce's?

 

It's always easy to rationalize when it's the program you root for, isn't it?

 

You really don't see the difference between over committing players you recruit, knowing that you'll almost certainly have to force them out later, and a new coach telling players the previous coach recruited that they won't get much playing time in his system and them transferring? Really? Even if Groce didn't play these kids just because he didn't want them, it's much less disingenuous than recruiting kids and then doing it to them.

 

Neither scenario is what you would call ideal, but one is decidedly worse then the other.

 

I don't think Illini fans are the ones rationalizing here.

 

Forcing players out is the harm here. There are degrees -- and forcing players out you recruited is probably worse than players you did not recruit -- but the harm is the forcing out of players.

 

I'm absolutely, vehemently against oversigning (sans for obvious early-entry candidates) and the forcing out of such players. Unequivocally. I don't like what happened to Capobianco. I think Crean is playing with fire. However, it has happened exactly one time. One time is not an epidemic, it's next to nothing.

Edited April 10, 2013 by Exile on Waveland

[SouthSideRyan]

The only guy that left under a scholarship crunch was Capobianco, except for the guy that is now rumored to be leaving due to a scholarship crunch.

[Exile on Waveland]

The only guy that left under a scholarship crunch was Capobianco, except for the guy that is now rumored to be leaving due to a scholarship crunch.

 

First of all, we're talking about a rumor. Second, it's quite possible a player leaves for "playing time" (like they do at Illinois, wink wink). Third, similar to Patterson, why Remy Abell? Why not Maurice Creek or Peter Jurkin or Austin Etherington? Losing Abell would be a blow to next year's team, and the following year's team. It would not be a loss to be celebrated (just as losing Patterson really hurt -- he would be a starter next year).

[SouthSideRyan]

Indiana had 16 guys on scholarship for next year when the season started.

[Exile on Waveland]

Indiana had 16 guys on scholarship for next year when the season started.

 

And two players are already (well, in about an hour and a half, technically) off to the NBA as early-entries (as they always were going to be). It would have been foolish for any coach not to prepare for that inevitability. That means IU is currently over-signed by one (which is the number the Big Ten allows for). Normal transfer attrition rate for Division One programs is, approximately, one.

[bukie]

How does Etherington keep surviving?

 

Because this issue has mainly been fabricated in the minds of Purdue/Illinois fans.

 

Illinois, you know, the program that just had how many players transfer?

It's not as if Illinois overcommitted on scholarships so that they had to find creative ways to get rid of kids.

 

This case, it just sounds like the kids wanted to play more than they were at Illinois, and Groce was up front about things and told them they weren't going to play much there.

 

This is just more rationalizing. Players leave Illinois because they want to play more . . . players leave IU because IU's coach is a meanie (and, of course, was not up front and did not tell players they weren't going to play much there because, well, what exactly? Because Illinois fans that hate IU will it so?).

 

Players that have left IU for more playing time/to be closer to home have been used by this board, ad nauseam, to prove that "Creaning" exists. Meanwhile, only one such player left when there was a scholarship crunch (Capobianco). That player was "Creaned"; sure, there's little way around that. (The only other player that has left when IU was under a scholarship crunch was Ron Patterson. Patterson was admitted to the university on a contingency basis, failed to make his grades, and violated the honor code (the honor code, by the way, prohibits cheating). Moreover, he ended up at Syracuse. If this was just a Machiavellian "Creaning" why not "Crean," say, Maurice Creek or Peter Jurkin or Austin Etherington or Remy Abell? Would any of those players have ended up at a program of Syracuse's ilk? Or even at a BCS program?)

You keep moving the goalposts here. We're not the ones rationalizing why our players transferred.

[SpongeWorthy]

Starting this thread was a huge mistake.

[Exile on Waveland]

How does Etherington keep surviving?

 

Because this issue has mainly been fabricated in the minds of Purdue/Illinois fans.

 

Illinois, you know, the program that just had how many players transfer?

It's not as if Illinois overcommitted on scholarships so that they had to find creative ways to get rid of kids.

 

This case, it just sounds like the kids wanted to play more than they were at Illinois, and Groce was up front about things and told them they weren't going to play much there.

 

This is just more rationalizing. Players leave Illinois because they want to play more . . . players leave IU because IU's coach is a meanie (and, of course, was not up front and did not tell players they weren't going to play much there because, well, what exactly? Because Illinois fans that hate IU will it so?).

 

Players that have left IU for more playing time/to be closer to home have been used by this board, ad nauseam, to prove that "Creaning" exists. Meanwhile, only one such player left when there was a scholarship crunch (Capobianco). That player was "Creaned"; sure, there's little way around that. (The only other player that has left when IU was under a scholarship crunch was Ron Patterson. Patterson was admitted to the university on a contingency basis, failed to make his grades, and violated the honor code (the honor code, by the way, prohibits cheating). Moreover, he ended up at Syracuse. If this was just a Machiavellian "Creaning" why not "Crean," say, Maurice Creek or Peter Jurkin or Austin Etherington or Remy Abell? Would any of those players have ended up at a program of Syracuse's ilk? Or even at a BCS program?)

You keep moving the goalposts here. We're not the ones rationalizing why our players transferred.

 

Huh? I'm the one moving the goalposts? You, bukie, delineated what you believe is improper: "overcommitt[ing] on scholarships so that they had to find creative ways to get rid of kids." I responded, directly, to that: it happened to Capobianco. It is, and was, regrettable. But it has not been, to this point, any sort of epidemic as oft portrayed.

 

And Illinois fans absolutely are rationalizing why players left: (1) they weren't Groce recruits originally; (2) they wanted more playing time; or (3) Groce was up-front about things. Those things are, inarguably, rationalizations. They define rationalizations. (Edit: which is fine becuase transfers happen. Sometimes good players transfer, but, by rule, mainly players that aren't playing transfer. It's the way of college sports. Acknowledgement of this is the exact purpose of the over-sign rule.)

[Magnetic Curses]

How does Etherington keep surviving?

 

Because this issue has mainly been fabricated in the minds of Purdue/Illinois fans.

 

Illinois, you know, the program that just had how many players transfer?

 

how many of those kids were groce's?

 

It's always easy to rationalize when it's the program you root for, isn't it?

 

so it's the same thing, then? ok.