Week 16 The Desperate Bears @ Arizona Cardinals

[scarey]

The best way to get a backup QB is to draft one in the middle rounds - they don't cost much and the chance of finding a decent backup is about as good as finding one on the FA market. It's a complete waste of salary cap to sign a mediocre FA; as goony said, the Bears could have spent that money elsewhere. And to top it all, Campbell sucked.

 

Plus, there's always the added bonus of landing a Schaub, Flynn, Cousins type QB that can turn into an assett for you.

I have absolutely zero confidence in the Bear's ability to develop an NFL QB from the draft. Given the holes on this team, wasting a middle round pick on a QB would be horrible. Campbell was too expensive, but I'd much rather spend $1.5 million on a serviceable veteran.

 

 

There's too many needs for such a luxury in this upcoming draft, but the Bears need to make this a organizational strategy going forward. Do you realize the Falcons got a second round pick as well as moving from 10 overall to 8 overall in the first round for Matt Schaub? Great move by the Texans long term, but that's the kind of return I would love to have from a 3rd round pick.

 

Hell, if the Bears could grab a 3rd round pick in the 2014 draft... a project QB like Kaepernick, I would be pretty pleased to have an heir to Cutler. To be able to do that though, you need to get production from the first three picks this year.

[Guest]

Yea, I don't get the Campbell criticism.

 

I'm not criticizing Campbell. I'm criticizing the stupidity of the plan that said, "hey let's ignore the starting line that plays every down when the team is on offense and rather waste millions on a backup QB who if he plays, the team is doomed anyway."

Did Cambell really effect our ability to improve the line though?

 

It's a salary cap league and he cost lots of money, so obviously, yes he did. They chose to sign him and chose not to upgrade anything on the line. That was a foolish mistake.

How much was he signed for? I have to think he cost less than any starting-caliber lineman that would have impacted the line's performance this year. One lineman (besides maybe an elite LT) isn't going to make a difference on this line anyways. They're all weak links and need to be replaced (besides maybe Louis).

 

One starting caliber OL might not make a great impact on this team but he'd mean the Bears need to address one fewer OL this offseason.

[UMFan83]

Us pulling out the last two games and still missing out at tiebreakers at 10-6 would add nice symmetry to 2008 when the Bears needed astronomical things to happen for them to be viable for a wild card in the last week, THEY ALL DID HAPPEN, and then they lost to the Texans anyway.

 

I could be wrong, but I think there were like 3-4 scenarios that would have gotten us in with a win, and 1 of them did happen, which had to do with finishing ahead of the 9-6-1 Eagles. We could have won the division if Minnesota had lost to the #1 seed Giants, but the Vikings won on a game ending FG down 1. What a weird day of ups and downs that was. The difference between this year and 2008 was I actually liked that 2008 team a lot and thought they could have won a playoff game or two. This year I want them to make the playoffs out of pride as a Bears fan, but the desire isn't nearly as strong, and the hope of doing anything in the playoffs is nil.

[rawaction]

The Bears have been killed with T/E stunts. A good smart LG would work wonders for this team. Louis did fine this year. Garza is bad but he doesn't get 1 on 1 blocks or play in space so he's serviceable. If all Cutler had to worry about was the edges it would make a world of difference.

[WrigleyField 22]

NFL salaries are a bit tricky obviously. Cap hits will matter and stuff, but here's some dead weight that isn't Cambell. Not sure what all the cap implications of cutting these guys would have been, but here's some other deadweight salary to start the year.

 

Chris Williams 4.62m

Spencer 3.75m

Garza 2.7m

(Starting with the position where the weaknesses are might be a good spot to start)

Castanzo 1m

(Sorry but we get fringe guys to produce at a high level on s.t all the time at league min.)

Matt Spaeth 2.2m

(For a blocking TE?)

Idonije 2.5m

(I like Izzy, but with the benefit of hindsight with the way Wotton has came on, we could have replaced Izzy with a lower salaried player

Matt Forte and Bush 8.8m combined

(A lot to be spending on the RB position and not get elite production)

 

I just can't single out Cambell out of all those. Especially since I think he is better than what he did this year in our crap offense. I'm all for spendind cheap on areas, but at QB you have to develop that cheap production, which can't be done in an offseason.

 

Only so much Emery could have done with the way we've mismanaged the roster up to now. The O-Line troubles are due to a series of bad devisions going years back .

 

 

 

 

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[jersey cubs fan]

I just can't single out Cambell out of all those.

 

OH MY GOD YOU DON'T FREAKING GETTING IT.

[Banedon]

It's not about Campbell. It's about spending money on the backup QB position. No matter the name.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

This thread sure got funny.

[WrigleyField 22]

Fine I can't single out the position either because its a freaking important position. And the "if Cutler goes out it doesn't matter" arguement is crap. Yes if Cutler goes out for the year it doesn't matter, but I'm more worried about possibly staying afloat for a week or two because going into the year, it was pretty strong chance our playoff odds could be decided by a game. And going on 3 years now Cutler has missed bits and pieces of time. Part of that is our line, but Cutler doesn't protect himself eithet. I guess we could have saved ourselves about 1m with neckbeard, but beyond that we weren't going to solve backup qb on the cheap for 2012. And I'll maintain its importance.

 

More worried about the 11m on our top 3 lineman who gave us zero good starts, the 2.2m we paid for special teamers that provided a marginal upgrade over near minimum players, and over overpriced RB platoon in a passing league. At worst the possible 1m overpay for QB is on the same level of those, but I'd say not as bad.

 

 

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[rawaction]

Point is. THERE IS NO BACKUP QB PROBLEM. The problem is keeping Cutler healthy. And that is up to the OL. Hence where money should be spent. It's like buying a beater car and having money in savings to fix it when it breaks down instead of buying a good damn car in the first place.

[WrigleyField 22]

QB is important. Backup is part of that.

 

11M+ on our top 3 paid OL and zero good starts. We do have a beater car except we are somehow making payments on it like its a slightly used Toyota.

 

 

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[rawaction]

QB is important. Backup is part of that.

 

11M+ on our top 3 paid OL and zero good starts. We do have a beater car except we are somehow making payments on it like its a slightly used Toyota.

 

The names of the backup QBs for Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Eli Manning, and Aaron Rodgers are....... Chase Daniel, Brock Osweiler, Ryan Mallett, David Carr, and Graham Harrell. They combined to make about 3.2 Million this year. Jason Campbell made 3.5 Mil. And the same thing happened to the Bears when Campbell played that would happen if any of those 5 guys played for their team....the team lost.

 

This is not a chicken/egg argument. The Bears didn't lose those 5 games last year because Caleb Hanie played. They lost because Jay Cutler didn't. So, instead of preparing for when Cutler misses games, it would have been wiser to try to build a team (specifically an OL) that would help keep Cutler from getting hurt.

 

Now Cutler did miss time last year due to a non-sack related injury (trying to make a play on INT). But with him taking so many hits, it was inevitable that he might get injured again. The idea should have been to not let him take so many hits. No 7-stop drops are part of the solution, but getting actual guys who can block would be better. That way you don't have to limit your offense to shorter drops 100% of the time.

 

As for the $11 Million thing, it's a 5 man position (OL). And adding Carimi, Webb, and Louis still only gets you to just over 12Mil. This team spends about 20Mil at LB for 3 players. Spends more than 12Mil for 4 DBs. Spends 8.8 Mil on RB. Spends almost as much on WR, not even including Marshall. You can't say "oh they spent 11Mil, they tried!". They didn't. Some of that money was a rookie contract for a guy that was drafted before the new draft cap was installed. Some of that was a veteran player brought back simply for the sake of stability (Garza). Some of that was to replace Kreutz who was lost last year, and they saved money by signing Spencer over him.

[cubbyvirus00]

QB is important. Backup is part of that.

 

11M+ on our top 3 paid OL and zero good starts. We do have a beater car except we are somehow making payments on it like its a slightly used Toyota.

 

The names of the backup QBs for Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Eli Manning, and Aaron Rodgers are....... Chase Daniel, Brock Osweiler, Ryan Mallett, David Carr, and Graham Harrell. They combined to make about 3.2 Million this year. Jason Campbell made 3.5 Mil. And the same thing happened to the Bears when Campbell played that would happen if any of those 5 guys played for their team....the team lost.

 

This is not a chicken/egg argument. The Bears didn't lose those 5 games last year because Caleb Hanie played. They lost because Jay Cutler didn't. So, instead of preparing for when Cutler misses games, it would have been wiser to try to build a team (specifically an OL) that would help keep Cutler from getting hurt.

 

Now Cutler did miss time last year due to a non-sack related injury (trying to make a play on INT). But with him taking so many hits, it was inevitable that he might get injured again. The idea should have been to not let him take so many hits. No 7-stop drops are part of the solution, but getting actual guys who can block would be better. That way you don't have to limit your offense to shorter drops 100% of the time.

 

As for the $11 Million thing, it's a 5 man position (OL). And adding Carimi, Webb, and Louis still only gets you to just over 12Mil. This team spends about 20Mil at LB for 3 players. Spends more than 12Mil for 4 DBs. Spends 8.8 Mil on RB. Spends almost as much on WR, not even including Marshall. You can't say "oh they spent 11Mil, they tried!". They didn't. Some of that money was a rookie contract for a guy that was drafted before the new draft cap was installed. Some of that was a veteran player brought back simply for the sake of stability (Garza). Some of that was to replace Kreutz who was lost last year, and they saved money by signing Spencer over him.

 

Great post.

[WrigleyField 22]

My point about the 11m isn't that they tried. They didn't try. But they were content to let that money sit there and do poorly. I agree other positions have big money tied up to, although a lot of those positions are at least giving is advantages on the field.

 

Regarding those examples of backup QBs, those teams actually are much more reliant on their QBs to the point where the argument does hold a little bit more weight. The Bears aren't that team with a top 5 QB and good offensive system. Part of that is because Jay isn't a top 5 QB. God knows why we continue to patch the offense with retread and familiar faces. That would help a lot and would let you get away with a lesser QB. But given the situation that Tice was our OC i sure wanted a reliable QB. Even discounting the relative danger the OL puts Cutler in, he puts himself at risk of injury himself. Taking what Angelo left behind there isn't an OL you could have assembled, with Cambells 3.5 M or not, that would have left me feeling we wouldn't need a competent backup at some point. Maybe Cambell just sucks now but history indicated he was a pretty reliable bet to step in and hold the offense together when Jay went down. It didn't happen. Bad talent eval, bad offense or both contributed to this.

 

 

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[gflore34]

I'd rather the Bears miss the playoffs I believe that'll be the end of the end of the Lovie Smith era. A large part of the recent losses to Green Bay can be blamed on coaching, an offensive minded head coach doesn't lose all these games. An example - their continued use of Hester as a WR, he doesn't know where to be, cannot run routes, he's never going to get it yet, Lovie keeps putting in a position to fail.

[cubbyvirus00]

Does Jay Cutler break the tie he has with Ryan Tannehill, Nick Roles, Kirk Cousins, Matt Cassel, Kevin Kolb, Ryan Lindley, Chad Henne, Christian Ponder for 300 yard passing games all at the mighty number of 1?

 

EDIT: I left out Skelton and Gabbert

[JonJayCutler]

Does Jay Cutler break the tie he has with Ryan Tannehill, Nick Roles, Kirk Cousins, Matt Cassel, Kevin Kolb, Ryan Lindley, Chad Henne, Christian Ponder for 300 yard passing games all at the mighty number of 1?

 

EDIT: I left out Skelton and Gabbert

 

Only if we get in a shootout or are trailing big, neither of which are likely to happen. I'm going to go with 205 yards, 2 TDs and 1 INT. He needs to average 185 in each of these last two games to reach 3,000 yards on the season. Should be able to do that barring injury.

 

Forte needs to average 49 rush yards in each game to reach 1,000.

[Splendid Splinter]

Does Jay Cutler break the tie he has with Ryan Tannehill, Nick Roles, Kirk Cousins, Matt Cassel, Kevin Kolb, Ryan Lindley, Chad Henne, Christian Ponder for 300 yard passing games all at the mighty number of 1?

 

EDIT: I left out Skelton and Gabbert

 

Only if we get in a shootout or are trailing big, neither of which are likely to happen. I'm going to go with 205 yards, 2 TDs and 1 INT. He needs to average 185 in each of these last two games to reach 3,000 yards on the season. Should be able to do that barring injury.

 

Forte needs to average 49 rush yards in each game to reach 1,000.

 

 

It's going to be weird to have a 3,000 yards passer, 1,000 yards rusher, and a 1,500 yards receiver in a single season on the same team. Yet they're like in the bottom 5 as an offense in the league.

[UK1679666180]

Does Jay Cutler break the tie he has with Ryan Tannehill, Nick Roles, Kirk Cousins, Matt Cassel, Kevin Kolb, Ryan Lindley, Chad Henne, Christian Ponder for 300 yard passing games all at the mighty number of 1?

 

EDIT: I left out Skelton and Gabbert

 

Only if we get in a shootout or are trailing big, neither of which are likely to happen. I'm going to go with 205 yards, 2 TDs and 1 INT. He needs to average 185 in each of these last two games to reach 3,000 yards on the season. Should be able to do that barring injury.

 

Forte needs to average 49 rush yards in each game to reach 1,000.

 

 

It's going to be weird to have a 3,000 yards passer, 1,000 yards rusher, and a 1,500 yards receiver in a single season on the same team. Yet they're like in the bottom 5 as an offense in the league.

 

In today's league, that 3000 passing yards isn't impressive.

 

As far as Back-up QBs and allocation...

 

Back-up QBs aren't put on teams to win games, they're there not to sink the ship of teams capable of going deep in the playoffs. The problem with the Bears is that they're not good enough to be a serious contender with Cutler, let alone without him. SF is the exception to the norm and even that consists of a lowered salaried draft pick compared to an open market FA QB. Each of the teams that are better than the Bears (except SF, I don't consider Minn better but AP cancels that equation anyways) would be screwed if their QBs go down.

 

You don't protect your greatest asset by bringing in a lesser replacement.

 

Honestly, Aaron Rodgers couldn't guide this current roster to the sB! let alone Cutler and taking away from that ability to improve the pieces around Cutler is poor roster composition.

[Fred Hornkohl]

My fearless prediction..........

 

BEARS       20
Arizona     16

 

 

 

Go BEARS !!

[jersey cubs fan]

Zach Zaidman ‏@ZachZaidman

Reporter to Larry Fitzgerald: Were Bears who you thought they were? Fitzgerald: "You know I love Denny Green, but I'm not gonna touch that."

 

You know, I still haven't given up on my dream of having Marshall and Fitzgerald on the same team. Who cares about the line if that happens.

[Soul]

Zach Zaidman ‏@ZachZaidman

Reporter to Larry Fitzgerald: Were Bears who you thought they were? Fitzgerald: "You know I love Denny Green, but I'm not gonna touch that."

 

You know, I still haven't given up on my dream of having Marshall and Fitzgerald on the same team. Who cares about the line if that happens.

 

I still do :)

[minnesotacubsfan]

Zach Zaidman ‏@ZachZaidman

Reporter to Larry Fitzgerald: Were Bears who you thought they were? Fitzgerald: "You know I love Denny Green, but I'm not gonna touch that."

 

You know, I still haven't given up on my dream of having Marshall and Fitzgerald on the same team. Who cares about the line if that happens.

 

 

yea. it would be fun watching them run down the field as Cutler is extricated from the earth.

[jersey cubs fan]

Zach Zaidman ‏@ZachZaidman

Reporter to Larry Fitzgerald: Were Bears who you thought they were? Fitzgerald: "You know I love Denny Green, but I'm not gonna touch that."

 

You know, I still haven't given up on my dream of having Marshall and Fitzgerald on the same team. Who cares about the line if that happens.

 

 

yea. it would be fun watching them run down the field as Cutler is extricated from the earth.

 

Nah, your blitzing options would be severely limited, or at least very exploitable. You could easily keep a 6th blocker in and then just have those 2 running wild with a RB for dump offs and another receiver trying to sneak out deep.

[cubbyvirus00]

Fun fact of the day. There are 18 runners who have more 100 yard games then Forte. He keeps company with Shonn Greene, Bryce Brown, Michael Turner, Knowshon Moreno.