Who is the #10 prospect (Run-Off)?

[WrigleyField 22]

Vitters cracking the top-10 would make me way too sad about the state of our system, so Johnson obviously

Yes, it sucks to have 22 year olds that put up a .859 OPS in AAA.

 

At a position that half the league is scrambling to fill.

 

Including the Cubs.

 

I'm still troubled by the decision to bring up Vitters but not play him.

They did play him quite a bit initially. Not as much as Jackson, but he was also not as good. By the time he really started riding the pine, Iowa was pretty much over.

 

I'm not too distraught over him getting 99 AB over two months rather than 120 some AB in Iowa to end the season.

 

 

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[sneakypower]

Vitters cracking the top-10 would make me way too sad about the state of our system, so Johnson obviously

Yes, it sucks to have 22 year olds that put up a .859 OPS in AAA.

you very easily looked past the 22 year old Brett Jackson that put up a .939 OPS in AAA, presumably because you approached his situation with a little more objectivity

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Vitters cracking the top-10 would make me way too sad about the state of our system, so Johnson obviously

Yes, it sucks to have 22 year olds that put up a .859 OPS in AAA.

you very easily looked past the 22 year old Brett Jackson that put up a .939 OPS in AAA, presumably because you approached his situation with a little more objectivity

 

Where did he vote Brett Jackson? He ended up pretty high.

[jersey cubs fan]

Vitters cracking the top-10 would make me way too sad about the state of our system, so Johnson obviously

Yes, it sucks to have 22 year olds that put up a .859 OPS in AAA.

 

If that was an accomplishment it would be a meaningful statement. But an 859 in the PCL is not an accomplishment, especially by a guy who can't hack 3B.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Vitters cracking the top-10 would make me way too sad about the state of our system, so Johnson obviously

Yes, it sucks to have 22 year olds that put up a .859 OPS in AAA.

 

If that was an accomplishment it would be a meaningful statement. But an 859 in the PCL is not an accomplishment, especially by a guy who can't hack 3B.

 

It's not like we're comparing him to people who have racked up accomplishments at this point. His competition in this run-off is a guy whose accomplishments are:

 

1) 11 innings in short-season ball

 

2) Being picked at No. 43 overall (a spot in the draft order that has produced just three players in 47 years with a career bWAR of 5 or higher.)

 

Here is the full list of players who were in the PCL at 22 or younger who posted an .800 OPS or better last season (min. 143 ABs because that's what BR has it set at for some reason):

 

Wil Myers

Anthony Rizzo

Josh Vitters

[jersey cubs fan]

Vitters cracking the top-10 would make me way too sad about the state of our system, so Johnson obviously

Yes, it sucks to have 22 year olds that put up a .859 OPS in AAA.

 

If that was an accomplishment it would be a meaningful statement. But an 859 in the PCL is not an accomplishment, especially by a guy who can't hack 3B.

 

It's not like we're comparing him to people who have racked up accomplishments at this point. His competition in this run-off is a guy whose accomplishments are:

 

1) 11 innings in short-season ball

 

2) Being picked at No. 43 overall (a spot in the draft order that has produced just three players in 47 years with a career bWAR of 5 or higher.)

 

Here is the full list of players who were in the PCL at 22 or younger who posted an .800 OPS or better last season (min. 143 ABs because that's what BR has it set at for some reason):

 

Wil Myers

Anthony Rizzo

Josh Vitters

 

 

everybody knows AAA is not stacked with prospects. The age doesn't really matter as much as seeing a 21 year old do something interesting in AA. Vitters has done very little in his 6 seasons of professional ball. He looks like garbage at first and then looks to hold his own. Then people give him a boost for being young while holding his own. I'm not interested in prospects who eventually learn to hold their own in the minor leagues.

[jersey cubs fan]

what's the point of a run-off? One guy wins 28-25 in one vote and then there's another one that gets fewer voters to determine who won?

[Guest]

This poll only allows 1 vote per person, previous poll allowed 3 votes per person.

[SouthSideRyan]

This poll only allows 1 vote per person, previous poll allowed 3 votes per person.

 

Even if that wasn't the case, a run-off can still make sense.

[WrigleyField 22]

This poll only allows 1 vote per person, previous poll allowed 3 votes per person.

 

Even if that wasn't the case, a run-off can still make sense.

I think he means, last vote = 120 votes= 40 voters (presuming everyone used all 3 votes).

 

This vote =38 votes = 38 voters.

 

Two less voters!

 

 

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[Hairyducked Idiot]

It's 19-19 as I type. Just call them each t-10 and move on.

[SouthSideRyan]

Vitters cracking the top-10 would make me way too sad about the state of our system, so Johnson obviously

Yes, it sucks to have 22 year olds that put up a .859 OPS in AAA.

 

If that was an accomplishment it would be a meaningful statement. But an 859 in the PCL is not an accomplishment, especially by a guy who can't hack 3B.

 

It's not like we're comparing him to people who have racked up accomplishments at this point. His competition in this run-off is a guy whose accomplishments are:

 

1) 11 innings in short-season ball

 

2) Being picked at No. 43 overall (a spot in the draft order that has produced just three players in 47 years with a career bWAR of 5 or higher.)

 

Here is the full list of players who were in the PCL at 22 or younger who posted an .800 OPS or better last season (min. 143 ABs because that's what BR has it set at for some reason):

 

Wil Myers

Anthony Rizzo

Josh Vitters

 

 

everybody knows AAA is not stacked with prospects. The age doesn't really matter as much as seeing a 21 year old do something interesting in AA. Vitters has done very little in his 6 seasons of professional ball. He looks like garbage at first and then looks to hold his own. Then people give him a boost for being young while holding his own. I'm not interested in prospects who eventually learn to hold their own in the minor leagues.

 

Well there were 4 21 year olds with better AA OPSes than Vitters in '11. Nobody's saying he's an elite prospect, we're saying he's better than a guy with arm troubles who's thrown 11 professional innings.

[WrigleyField 22]

Shocking that we are getting into fringe top 10 and players have question marks.

 

 

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[jumbo]

Vitters cracking the top-10 would make me way too sad about the state of our system, so Johnson obviously

Yes, it sucks to have 22 year olds that put up a .859 OPS in AAA.

 

If that was an accomplishment it would be a meaningful statement. But an 859 in the PCL is not an accomplishment, especially by a guy who can't hack 3B.

 

It's not like we're comparing him to people who have racked up accomplishments at this point. His competition in this run-off is a guy whose accomplishments are:

 

1) 11 innings in short-season ball

 

2) Being picked at No. 43 overall (a spot in the draft order that has produced just three players in 47 years with a career bWAR of 5 or higher.)

 

Here is the full list of players who were in the PCL at 22 or younger who posted an .800 OPS or better last season (min. 143 ABs because that's what BR has it set at for some reason):

 

Wil Myers

Anthony Rizzo

Josh Vitters

 

 

everybody knows AAA is not stacked with prospects. The age doesn't really matter as much as seeing a 21 year old do something interesting in AA. Vitters has done very little in his 6 seasons of professional ball. He looks like garbage at first and then looks to hold his own. Then people give him a boost for being young while holding his own. I'm not interested in prospects who eventually learn to hold their own in the minor leagues.

 

He deserves a boost for being young for his level. It's the opposite of the LaHair success that led everyone to say, "sure, but he's 29." If Vitters started repeating levels he would post better numbers.

 

Here's Vitters numbers the first time through A-, A, A+, AA versus his second time through:

G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS

124 461 430 52 98 22 2 10 50 5 2 20 74 .228 .273 .358 .631

288 1173 1087 152 329 73 5 37 177 13 14 50 163 .303 .342 .481 .823

 

And his first time through AAA:

110 452 415 54 126 32 2 17 68 6 3 30 77 .304 .356 .513 .869

[Northsider]

Vitters.

(repetition of points already made about floor, TANSTAAPP, injuries, &c.) I will, however, point out that Vitters should be handled better by the new regime than the old regime; Vitters should play well above last year's results.

 

On the other hand, Johnson will probably be of more direct value to the team. If Vitter's bat plays, we'll probably trade him for pitching.

[sneakypower]

fwiw, players 23 & under in the PCL, the last five years:

 

1) Adam Eaton, Diamondbacks (AAA): .381/.456/.539 (.995 OPS), 163 wRC+ (Age 23)

2) Anthony Rizzo, Padres (AAA): .331/.404/.652 (.1056 OPS), 152 wRC+ (Age 21)

3) Jedd Gyorko, Padres (AAA): .325/.377/.585 (.963 OPS), 144 wRC+ (Age 23)

4) Ryan Wheeler, Diamondbacks (AAA): .351/.388/.572 (.960 OPS), 143 wRC+ (Age 23)

5) Brandon Wood, Angels (AAA): .296/.375/.595 (.970 OPS), 140 wRC+ (Age 23)

6) Wil Myers, Royals (AAA): .304/.378/.554 (.932 OPS), 137 wRC+ (Age 21)

 

7) Chris Carter, Athletics (AAA): .258/.365/.529 (.894 OPS), 126 wRC+ (Age 23)

8) Trayvon Robinson, - - -: .289/.374/.552 (.926 OPS), 125 wRC+ (Age 23)

9) Josh Vitters, Cubs (AAA): .304/.356/.513 (.869 OPS), 121 wRC+ (Age 22)

10) Brett Wallace, Blue Jays (AAA): .301/.359/.509 (.868 OPS), 121 wRC+ (Age 23)

11) Peter Bourjos, Angels (AAA): .314/.364/.500 (.864 OPS), 120 wRC+ (Age 23)

12) Hank Conger, Angels (AAA): .300/.385/.463 (.847 OPS), 120 wRC+ (Age 22)

13) Jerry Sands, Dodgers (AAA): .278/.344/.586 (.931 OPS), 119 wRC+ (Age 23)

14) Johnny Giavotella, Royals (AAA): .338/.390/.481 (.871 OPS), 118 wRC+ (Age 23)

15) Mike Carp, Mariners (AAA): .271/.372/.446 (.818 OPS), 118 wRC+ (Age 23)

16) Caleb Gindl, Brewers (AAA): .307/.390/.472 (.862 OPS), 117 wRC+ (Age 22)

17) Moises Sierra, Blue Jays (AAA): .289/.360/.472 (.832 OPS), 115 wRC+ (Age 23)

18) Xavier Paul, Dodgers (AAA): .316/.378/.463 (.841 OPS), 114 wRC+ (Age 23)

19) Conor Gillaspie, Giants (AAA): .297/.389/.453 (.842 OPS), 113 wRC+ (Age 23)

20) Brett Wallace, - - -: .297/.354/.460 (.815 OPS), 113 wRC+ (Age 22)

21) Jimmy Paredes, Astros (AAA): .318/.348/.477 (.826 OPS), 112 wRC+ (Age 23)

22) Greg Halman, Mariners (AAA): .243/.310/.545 (.854 OPS), 111 wRC+ (Age 22)

 

23) Matt Tuiasosopo, Mariners (AAA): .281/.364/.453 (.817 OPS), 109 wRC+ (Age 22)

24) Brett Jackson, Cubs (AAA): .256/.338/.479 (.817 OPS), 107 wRC+ (Age 23)

25) Adeiny Hechavarria, Blue Jays (AAA): .312/.363/.424 (.788 OPS), 106 wRC+ (Age 23)

26) Anthony Gose, Blue Jays (AAA): .286/.366/.419 (.785 OPS), 106 wRC+ (Age 21)

27) Jai Miller, Marlins (AAA): .267/.349/.472 (.821 OPS), 105 wRC+ (Age 23)

28) Blake Dewitt, Dodgers (AAA): .256/.349/.426 (.775 OPS), 105 wRC+ (Age 23)

29) Julio Borbon, Rangers (AAA): .307/.367/.386 (.753 OPS), 103 wRC+ (Age 23)

30) Alcides Escobar, Brewers (AAA): .298/.353/.409 (.762 OPS), 102 wRC+ (Age 22)

31) Adrian Cardenas, Athletics (AAA): .314/.374/.418 (.791 OPS), 100 wRC+ (Age 23)

32) Alex Liddi, Mariners (AAA): .259/.332/.488 (.821 OPS), 98 wRC+ (Age 22)

33) Daniel Descalso, Cardinals (AAA): .281/.349/.420 (.769 OPS), 98 wRC+ (Age 23)

34) Nick Noonan, Giants (AAA): .296/.347/.416 (.763 OPS), 97 wRC+ (Age 23)

35) Colby Rasmus, Cardinals (AAA): .251/.346/.396 (.742 OPS), 89 wRC+ (Age 21)

36) Ivan De Jesus, Dodgers (AAA): .295/.333/.403 (.737 OPS), 89 wRC+ (Age 23)

37) Emilio Bonifacio, Diamondbacks (AAA): .302/.348/.387 (.735 OPS), 89 wRC+ (Age 23)

38) Joaquin Arias, Rangers (AAA): .296/.329/.421 (.750 OPS), 88 wRC+ (Age 23)

39) Caleb Gindl, Brewers (AAA): .259/.315/.420 (.736 OPS), 87 wRC+ (Age 23)

40) Alexi Amarista, Angels (AAA): .292/.337/.419 (.755 OPS), 86 wRC+ (Age 22)

41) J.P. Arencibia, Blue Jays (AAA): .236/.284/.444 (.728 OPS), 86 wRC+ (Age 23)

42) Chris Lubanski, Royals (AAA): .242/.306/.448 (.754 OPS), 85 wRC+ (Age 23)

43) Charlie Culberson, - - -: .263/.298/.420 (.719 OPS), 81 wRC+ (Age 23)

44) Carlos Triunfel, Mariners (AAA): .260/.308/.391 (.699 OPS), 79 wRC+ (Age 22)

45) Matt Dominguez, - - -: .257/.311/.371 (.682 OPS), 75 wRC+ (Age 22)

46) Matt Antonelli, Padres (AAA): .215/.335/.322 (.657 OPS), 74 wRC+ (Age 23)

47) Oswaldo Navarro, Mariners (AAA): .261/.326/.333 (.659 OPS), 71 wRC+ (Age 23)

48) Greg Golson, Rangers (AAA): .258/.299/.344 (.642 OPS), 68 wRC+ (Age 23)

49) Vinnie Catricala, Mariners (AAA): .229/.292/.348 (.640 OPS), 65 wRC+ (Age 23)

50) Yordany Ramirez, Astros (AAA): .231/.254/.382 (.636 OPS), 51 wRC+ (Age 23)

51) Pete Kozma, Cardinals (AAA): .214/.280/.289 (.569 OPS), 38 wRC+ (Age 23)

[Rex Buckingham]

and when you consider that (i'm pretty sure) some of those guys ahead of Vitters play in big time hitters parks, he looks even better Edited December 18, 2012 by abmillis

[sneakypower]

they're sorted by wRC+, which is park-adjusted

[Cubswin11]

Has Vitters been assigned/picked up by another winter league team since bing let go? Or will he be done seeing action until spring now?

[Guest]

Yeah, he sucks.

[Rex Buckingham]

thanks sneaky, overlooked that... but still, impressive numbers

[craig]

Johnson. I think he's got a chance to be very good.

 

Vitters has a chance, but I'm losing confidence that we'll ever want him playing 3B defensively, and that his hitting will be good enough to offset some of the concerns (defense/baserunning/face).

 

I've been voting for talented distant pitchers for a while now, ahead of position guys with too many flaws.

[Bilbo161]

I have a feeling fans(me included), are hoping for the pitching so much that we are reaching for more risky and distant and supposedly more elite pitching prospects over the nearer term hitting prospects that really haven't had enough of a chance to prove they belong on a MLB roster yet. The reason we think that way is it is pitching is such a clear deficiency. However, we also seem to ignore the pitching that is nearly ready to be called up. A guy like Loux, that is probably "only" a 3-4-5 starter prospect (near term) is completely overlooked because he does not have that elite label.