Game 13 - BEARS @ Minnesota Vikings - 12 PM

[cubbyvirus00]

Really a double-edged sword here. Blame Lovie for the lack of talent and lack of offensive brainpower that he has employed over the year. But shouldn't he get a lot of the props for making this a mostly competitive team with those clear deficiencies?

 

And honestly, I think I'd give him a pass on some of the offensive stuff. Ron Turner was his fault (though statistically he was easily the best OC in the last 20 years in Chicago, not saying much). Martz is on Lovie too, but a lot of that hire had to do with the lack of candidates available and willing to come to Chicago due to the fact that Lovie was perceived as a lame duck coach before the 2010 season, Bates obviously turned them down, they were denied the ability to talk to the QB coach from Green Bay. Tice is a product of Lovie's buddy system (failed to admit he hadn't done jack w/ the OL as they publicly touted). But I think the main reasons he became OC was to keep some continuity with Cutler (would have been 4th completely different system in 5 years w/ new OC) and Lovie again wasn't on very solid ground coming into the year with his GM already fired.

 

I really like Lovie the person, motivator, player's coach, defensive mind. I don't really like Lovie the talent evaluator. His in-game decisions are baffling, but the only one that has cost the Bears anything was the Redskins game a couple years ago, and even then that had no bearing on the season as the Bears still wound up with a 1st round bye that year. But with Emery now in the fold, it may be for the best to go in a different direction if the Bears struggle to end this year and have an early exit from the playoffs. But then again, I don't know if Emery wants a clean slate in the organization. He's not a young, up and coming talent evaluator. He's an old scout getting his first run at GM. He cleans house, and it's his last run, especially if he does it this soon into his tenure with a team that is a healthy Cutler away from having 3 straight 10+ win seasons.

 

I know I'm forgetting some names, but Adam Archaleta, Orlando Pace come to mind as Lovie having had big input in the past about bringing guys in to play his scheme yet they've failed miserably.

 

We're now looking at most likely a new Lovie handpicked OC to start the season and another round of Lovie player evaluations. There isn't a coach in the league that does not have a say in player acquisitions and drafting.

 

Also lets take a look at how many .500 teams this year the Bears have beaten. One, and that was Indy in week 1. We're bum beaters this season.

[rawaction]

 

Also lets take a look at how many .500 teams this year the Bears have beaten. One, and that was Indy in week 1. We're bum beaters this season.

 

Could have said the same thing in 2010 about the Packers and only beating the Eagles in Week 1. They didn't beat another team with a winning record until Week 16 vs. the Giants and a half-assed Bears team in WEek 17.

[cubbyvirus00]

:D

 

Also lets take a look at how many .500 teams this year the Bears have beaten. One, and that was Indy in week 1. We're bum beaters this season.

 

Could have said the same thing in 2010 about the Packers and only beating the Eagles in Week 1. They didn't beat another team with a winning record until Week 16 vs. the Giants and a half-assed Bears team in WEek 17.

 

Excluding the fact that they were loaded with talent on both sides of the ball and Aaron Rodgers was god?

[Sammy Sofa]

So you're...agreeing with him?

[cubbyvirus00]

So you're...agreeing with him?

 

Thanks for contributing to the discussion!

[Sammy Sofa]

Well that's a weird response. You'd think that if your point was so ironclad you wouldn't have to try to explain it away like that. Just pretend like it doesn't happen when someone makes you look like the mook meatball you are.

[cubbyvirus00]

Well that's a weird response. You'd think that if your point was so ironclad you wouldn't have to try to explain it away like that. Just pretend like it doesn't happen when someone makes you look like the mook meatball you are.

 

 

Mook meatball? :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

I won't stay on topic with you because that's a waste of time.

 

Yeah the Bears beating one team over .500 and beating up bad teams isn't 'ironclad.' :roll:

Edited December 8, 2012 by cubbyvirus00

[Sammy Sofa]

Roll away, li'l meatball.

[cubbyvirus00]

Roll away, li'l meatball.

 

Behold the almighty e-bully of NSBB!

[Sammy Sofa]

Played like a god! Stacked with talent! 10-6, baby! It's like science. But sure, let's cry instead. Argue your point, meatball.

[rawaction]

The point was a recent Superbowl team was in the same boat as the Bears during their SB season. Why does the talent level or godliness of the QB have anything to do with it? Your comment made no sense.

[cubbyvirus00]

The point was a recent Superbowl team was in the same boat as the Bears during their SB season. Why does the talent level or godliness of the QB have anything to do with it? Your comment made no sense.

 

My point is (without looking at stats) both teams do not have much in common. They are quite different. The Bears offense is particularly horrible.

[Sammy Sofa]

The Bears offense has some major flaws, but it's not "horrible." A truly "horrible" offense and the team wouldn't be at 8-4 right now. raw's point was that dropping something like "so far the Bears haven't beaten any teams above .500 this season" is a really simplistic and flawed way to look at the team and the season.

[rawaction]

The point was a recent Superbowl team was in the same boat as the Bears during their SB season. Why does the talent level or godliness of the QB have anything to do with it? Your comment made no sense.

 

My point is (without looking at stats) both teams do not have much in common. They are quite different. The Bears offense is particularly horrible.

And who the hell said they had anything in common other than wins vs good teams at this point? You said the bears couldn't beat good teams insinuating that they aren't good because of that. I said the world champs from 2 years ago couldn't either and your response was basically....yeah but they were good.

[cubbyvirus00]

The point was a recent Superbowl team was in the same boat as the Bears during their SB season. Why does the talent level or godliness of the QB have anything to do with it? Your comment made no sense.

 

My point is (without looking at stats) both teams do not have much in common. They are quite different. The Bears offense is particularly horrible.

And who the hell said they had anything in common other than wins vs good teams at this point? You said the bears couldn't beat good teams insinuating that they aren't good because of that. I said the world champs from 2 years ago couldn't either and your response was basically....yeah but they were good.

 

To be clear I am not saying that the Bears are not good because they can't beat a .500 or better team. In my opinion they are not as good as their record indicates primarily because of their offense and inexperienced OC. The age of the defense and lack of depth across the roster was always a concern and it has manifested itself. You brought up the 2010 Packers to which I responded there's no comparison. The 2012 Bears are not the 2010 Packers

[Sammy Sofa]

Why is there no comparison? You're talking like their 2010 season like the Super Bowl win went back and wiped out the actual regular season and replaced it with one played by an incredible team.

[cubbyvirus00]

The Bears offense has some major flaws, but it's not "horrible." A truly "horrible" offense and the team wouldn't be at 8-4 right now. raw's point was that dropping something like "so far the Bears haven't beaten any teams above .500 this season" is a really simplistic and flawed way to look at the team and the season.

 

How did I miss this gem? The Bears offense is not horrible?

 

The 2010 Packers offense and defense were both ranked in the top 10 and their offense was 2nd in Total YPG, they had the fifth ranked passing offense. They were 8th in PPG.

 

We currently have the 31st ranked passing offense and the 10th ranked rushing offense. (This is most surprising to me as Forte hasn't been very good). We are 30th in total yards and 13th in PPG including our defensive scores.

 

How are those offensive numbers not horrible? Lets also consider that our offense is worse then last seasons after the addition of Marshall, Bush and Jeffrey. We gave Bennet a 4 year 18 mill extension (ranked 2nd in receiving yards on this team with 250 yards)

 

The 2010 Packers had a very good team. I could be wrong but I swear there was a feeling that they underachieved to start the season. Lets not use them as a comparison.

[Sammy Sofa]

And yet despite that they're still in a position with a very good record where several of those wins are hinged on the offense. The defense had an amazing run, but to say they're in the position they're in only because of the defense is simply incorrect. A truly horrible offense is an offense devoid of talent, and that's clearly not the case with the Bears. Their offense is severely flawed, but that means they can't maximize on the talent they have, not that it's just a shitty offense.

 

I've been hugely critical of the Bears offense this year, but from the standpoint that they're wasting the really, really good talent they have in there thanks to a nightmare of an OL and a terrible OC as opposed to just saying "IT SUCKS!!!!"

[BigSlick]

Why fire Lovie this year? You have to pay attention to whats happening in the league, plenty of heads will roll and who exactly do you have scouted out for the job? If you fire someone you have to have someone you know is better in line, waiting, and say what you will about Lovie but the Bears are very rarely worse than mediocre. In fact they've never been worse than 7-9 in any of his seasons except for his first. Considering so many other teams are going to fire their coach this year, there'll be slim pickings on good coaches available.

 

What are the complaints about Lovie really about? I'll grant that he's had a part to play in talent evaluation, but the onus of those failure over the years lies squarely on Angelo. His defenses have been great pretty much universally, and that's why you got him - in fact this year is even more impressive since he's basically moved from the Cover -2 and done a crapload of really impressively ingenuitive things.

 

Let him coach on the final year of his contract and see what happens. If you don't make the playoffs, ditch him, but I also keep on the top of my mind that Cutler and Marshall are both in their late 20s and this window is closing rapidly, they don't have time for a rebuilding period. That's not necessarily the most justifiable position to hold in some ways - but Lovie has been a solid coach who's had identifiable weaknesses for some time, and they can be overcome.

 

I don't even really have a problem with Tice. Almost every problem for the Bears this year has been talent oriented. There have been very few times that I've been outright angry about a playcall (they happen, as they do for OCs everywhere), mostly the talent was so subpar that we merely couldn't execute. In fact I'll give Tice credit for ingenuity in using Marshall as basically our running game. The team has been able to move the ball surprisingly well with merely 1 receiver and not much else.

[Sammy Sofa]

NFL teams simply do not let coaches just hang around on the last year of their contract; they either fire them before that year or extend them before it. I'm not justifying it, but I'd be completely stunned if they started next season simply as the final season of his current contract. It just doesn't happen.

[BigSlick]

NFL teams simply do not let coaches just hang around on the last year of their contract; they either fire them before that year or extend them before it. I'm not justifying it, but I'd be completely stunned if they started next season simply as the final season of his current contract. It just doesn't happen.

I'm aware of that, but it's silly.

[Cubswin11]

Gruden is a [expletive] clown, but he would be a great guy to bring in to replace Lovie. He'd work wonders on the offense and help out Cutler.

[Pushfrog98]

Can we start a new "BEARS @ Minnesota Vikings" thread where we discuss the Bears vs the Vikings without all the stupid "Sky is falling" crap? Edited December 8, 2012 by Pushfrog98

[Guest]

Back up the truck for Payton.

[CubInOK]

Gruden is a [expletive] clown, but he would be a great guy to bring in to replace Lovie. He'd work wonders on the offense and help out Cutler.

I always thought Gruden would end up at Tennessee.