Game 13 - BEARS @ Minnesota Vikings - 12 PM

[cubbyvirus00]

I'm ready for Lovie to be fired. I want to cheer on this team but I think we simply don't have what it takes to win a Superbowl this year. So in that case I'm torn as I think rooting for Lovie to fail would mean a better chance of success in the short and long term.

[CubInOK]

I'm ready for Lovie to be fired. I want to cheer on this team but I think we simply don't have what it takes to win a Superbowl this year. So in that case I'm torn as I think rooting for Lovie to fail would mean a better chance of success in the short and long term.

Are you Theo Epstein?

[KingCubsFan]

I'm ready for Lovie to be fired. I want to cheer on this team but I think we simply don't have what it takes to win a Superbowl this year. So in that case I'm torn as I think rooting for Lovie to fail would mean a better chance of success in the short and long term.

Lovie is pretty far down the list of things wrong with this team. Tice, OL, age, WR's not named Marshall. But I've always been a fan of Lovie.

[jersey cubs fan]

I'm ready for Lovie to be fired. I want to cheer on this team but I think we simply don't have what it takes to win a Superbowl this year. So in that case I'm torn as I think rooting for Lovie to fail would mean a better chance of success in the short and long term.

Lovie is pretty far down the list of things wrong with this team. Tice, OL, age, WR's not named Marshall. But I've always been a fan of Lovie.

 

Lovie is arguably at the top. He's had a lot to do with the talent drain on this team, and a lot to do with the ineptitude of the offensive leadership, including Tice, the OL and WRs not named Marshall.

[SpongeWorthy]

What talent drain? There was definitely some of that after the Super Bowl year but we've added impact talent on all units besides OL (and TE I guess) since then.

[jersey cubs fan]

What talent drain? There was definitely some of that after the Super Bowl year but we've added impact talent on all units besides OL (and TE I guess) since then.

 

This was the most talented team in the NFC in 2006 and they aren't even close now. It's not a matter of adding people. It's adding them in comparison to the rest of the league. The Bears have not done that and Lovie has played a major part.

[scarey]

What talent drain? There was definitely some of that after the Super Bowl year but we've added impact talent on all units besides OL (and TE I guess) since then.

 

Pish posh. Cutler, Peppers, Forte, Bush, Jeffery, Conte, Wright, Jennings, Melton, Paea, Wootton? You call that impact talent?

[cubbyvirus00]

What talent drain? There was definitely some of that after the Super Bowl year but we've added impact talent on all units besides OL (and TE I guess) since then.

 

Paea, Wootten, Conte, Jeffrey etc are 'impact talent'? They're young pieces that can possibly be good players, but lets not get ahead of ourselves.

 

The franchise has done nothing to fix our biggest of problems and our two best offensive players we've had to acquire via trade. Lovie has a horrible track record against top rated teams and his record after trailing in first half is abysmal. He's a horrible talent evaluator and his lack of success should move him into the hot seat, especially with our team in a current free fall. He has yet to manage our offensive situation as a team properly.

 

I think he's feeling the pressure too. Have you heard his recent press conferences? He's showing signs of cracking.

[Guest]

I've heard this stuff about how Lovie has a bad record against .500+ teams a lot lately, but that stat is meaningless to me unless you can provide context of how other coaches do against .500+ teams. It's not surprising that a coach would do worse against better teams.

[SpongeWorthy]

What talent drain? There was definitely some of that after the Super Bowl year but we've added impact talent on all units besides OL (and TE I guess) since then.

 

This was the most talented team in the NFC in 2006 and they aren't even close now. It's not a matter of adding people. It's adding them in comparison to the rest of the league. The Bears have not done that and Lovie has played a major part.

 

Most talented except at the position that really matters.

[jersey cubs fan]

What talent drain? There was definitely some of that after the Super Bowl year but we've added impact talent on all units besides OL (and TE I guess) since then.

 

This was the most talented team in the NFC in 2006 and they aren't even close now. It's not a matter of adding people. It's adding them in comparison to the rest of the league. The Bears have not done that and Lovie has played a major part.

 

Most talented except at the position that really matters.

 

Sure, although they did have talent there, just not harnessed talent. And the only way they were able to address it is by trading away multiple picks for it. That is because they are offensively inept both in terms of evaluators and coaches. It is the head coach's responsibility to employ quality coaches underneath. That is a major knock against Lovie. The fact that Tice is a problem doesn't excuse Lovie, because Lovie is the reason Tice is the OC.

[cubbyvirus00]

I've heard this stuff about how Lovie has a bad record against .500+ teams a lot lately, but that stat is meaningless to me unless you can provide context of how other coaches do against .500+ teams. It's not surprising that a coach would do worse against better teams.

 

I would argue that you can use this against Lovie either way.

 

If the Bears have had talented teams since 2006 like some people would say, then Lovie should have fared better against .500 or better teams.

 

If the Bears have had a big talent gap since 2006 you can then tack that on Angelo AND Lovie since GM and Coach are usually tied together when it comes to drafting and talent evaluation. I think this team also suffers in player development, as well as gameday management.

 

There are very few positives to keeping Lovie Smith as your head coach. We know what he's going to bring to the table and it frankly isn't enough.

[scarey]

What talent drain? There was definitely some of that after the Super Bowl year but we've added impact talent on all units besides OL (and TE I guess) since then.

 

Paea, Wootten, Conte, Jeffrey etc are 'impact talent'? They're young pieces that can possibly be good players, but lets not get ahead of ourselves.

 

I can't check Football Outsiders at work because I'm forced to use a terrible version of IE that won't display the page properly. However, I'm pertty sure Paea grades out as one of the better DTs in the league. Melton too, although I think his 13 sacks going back to last year should be an indicator that he's an impact talent.

 

Conte and Wright have been the best safety tandem the Bears have had since Mike Brown and Manning.

 

Wootton and Jeffrey I may be over reaching on, but they have both shown they are very capable of being impact players.

[Guest]

Paea, Melton and Wright have been the three best defensive players on this year's team not named Tillman, Briggs or Jennings.

[jersey cubs fan]

Paea, Melton and Wright have been the three best defensive players on this year's team not named Tillman, Briggs or Jennings.

 

That doesn't really say anything.

[scarey]

Paea, Melton and Wright have been the three best defensive players on this year's team not named Tillman, Briggs or Jennings.

 

That doesn't really say anything.

 

It says that they've been the best defensive players outside of three guys that have considerations for defensive player of the year. That's something.

[Guest]

Paea, Melton and Wright have been the three best defensive players on this year's team not named Tillman, Briggs or Jennings.

 

That doesn't really say anything.

 

Fine fine. Melton and Wright are playing like Pro Bowl-level players and Paea is close behind them. All three were added after the Super Bowl (as was Jennings, for that matter).

[KingCubsFan]

What talent drain? There was definitely some of that after the Super Bowl year but we've added impact talent on all units besides OL (and TE I guess) since then.

 

Paea, Wootten, Conte, Jeffrey etc are 'impact talent'? They're young pieces that can possibly be good players, but lets not get ahead of ourselves.

 

The franchise has done nothing to fix our biggest of problems and our two best offensive players we've had to acquire via trade. Lovie has a horrible track record against top rated teams and his record after trailing in first half is abysmal. He's a horrible talent evaluator and his lack of success should move him into the hot seat, especially with our team in a current free fall. He has yet to manage our offensive situation as a team properly.

 

I think he's feeling the pressure too. Have you heard his recent press conferences? He's showing signs of cracking.

Do we even know what kind of input he has on player personnel? Seems like people are blaming him for the draft, free agency, etc. It would be one thing if you called him bad at player development when the Bears have players that they cast off and they somehow shine on other teams, but that hasn't really happened. Most of our misses in the draft get released and are out of the league shortly thereafter.

[jersey cubs fan]

Paea, Melton and Wright have been the three best defensive players on this year's team not named Tillman, Briggs or Jennings.

 

That doesn't really say anything.

 

Fine fine. Melton and Wright are playing like Pro Bowl-level players and Paea is close behind them. All three were added after the Super Bowl (as was Jennings, for that matter).

 

It's not a question of whether or not they have added players after the Super Bowl. It's whether or not they have kept passed (or more importantly exceeded the pace) in adding players on a year-to-year basis.

 

The presence of quality players on the roster does not negate the argument that they do not have enough quality players on the roster. The talent gap isn't about that.

[jersey cubs fan]

Do we even know what kind of input he has on player personnel? Seems like people are blaming him for the draft, free agency, etc. It would be one thing if you called him bad at player development when the Bears have players that they cast off and they somehow shine on other teams, but that hasn't really happened. Most of our misses in the draft get released and are out of the league shortly thereafter.

 

We know he's in the room and a very important voice. We know his system has dominated the agenda on draft day (safety every year, undersized defensive linemen, no offensive linemen, no quarterback, WR on occasion, emphasis on special teams, etc). We know he's had a few guy pushed out the door go on to success elsewhere. We know he and/or his staff have forced acquisitions of garbage veterans who got paid big money to do nothing and leave. We know they've had to go outside the organization to find the two most impactful players on the roster in recent years.

 

No, it's not all on him and no he's not all bad. But his weaknesses have been exposed over and over and the same problems have been problems throughout his tenure.

[squally1313]

Paea, Melton and Wright have been the three best defensive players on this year's team not named Tillman, Briggs or Jennings.

 

That doesn't really say anything.

 

It says that they've been the best defensive players outside of three guys that have considerations for defensive player of the year. That's something.

 

No, still nothing. Outside of Marshall and Jeffrey, Earl Bennett has been the best receiver on this year's team. Does this say anything about how good he is compared to the rest of the league?

[rawaction]

Really a double-edged sword here. Blame Lovie for the lack of talent and lack of offensive brainpower that he has employed over the year. But shouldn't he get a lot of the props for making this a mostly competitive team with those clear deficiencies?

 

And honestly, I think I'd give him a pass on some of the offensive stuff. Ron Turner was his fault (though statistically he was easily the best OC in the last 20 years in Chicago, not saying much). Martz is on Lovie too, but a lot of that hire had to do with the lack of candidates available and willing to come to Chicago due to the fact that Lovie was perceived as a lame duck coach before the 2010 season, Bates obviously turned them down, they were denied the ability to talk to the QB coach from Green Bay. Tice is a product of Lovie's buddy system (failed to admit he hadn't done jack w/ the OL as they publicly touted). But I think the main reasons he became OC was to keep some continuity with Cutler (would have been 4th completely different system in 5 years w/ new OC) and Lovie again wasn't on very solid ground coming into the year with his GM already fired.

 

I really like Lovie the person, motivator, player's coach, defensive mind. I don't really like Lovie the talent evaluator. His in-game decisions are baffling, but the only one that has cost the Bears anything was the Redskins game a couple years ago, and even then that had no bearing on the season as the Bears still wound up with a 1st round bye that year. But with Emery now in the fold, it may be for the best to go in a different direction if the Bears struggle to end this year and have an early exit from the playoffs. But then again, I don't know if Emery wants a clean slate in the organization. He's not a young, up and coming talent evaluator. He's an old scout getting his first run at GM. He cleans house, and it's his last run, especially if he does it this soon into his tenure with a team that is a healthy Cutler away from having 3 straight 10+ win seasons.

[CubInOK]

Does anyone ever give credit to Lovie Smith for creating badass defenses that take the ball away constantly?

[SpongeWorthy]

Really a double-edged sword here. Blame Lovie for the lack of talent and lack of offensive brainpower that he has employed over the year. But shouldn't he get a lot of the props for making this a mostly competitive team with those clear deficiencies?

 

And honestly, I think I'd give him a pass on some of the offensive stuff. Ron Turner was his fault (though statistically he was easily the best OC in the last 20 years in Chicago, not saying much). Martz is on Lovie too, but a lot of that hire had to do with the lack of candidates available and willing to come to Chicago due to the fact that Lovie was perceived as a lame duck coach before the 2010 season, Bates obviously turned them down, they were denied the ability to talk to the QB coach from Green Bay. Tice is a product of Lovie's buddy system (failed to admit he hadn't done jack w/ the OL as they publicly touted). But I think the main reasons he became OC was to keep some continuity with Cutler (would have been 4th completely different system in 5 years w/ new OC) and Lovie again wasn't on very solid ground coming into the year with his GM already fired.

 

I really like Lovie the person, motivator, player's coach, defensive mind. I don't really like Lovie the talent evaluator. His in-game decisions are baffling, but the only one that has cost the Bears anything was the Redskins game a couple years ago, and even then that had no bearing on the season as the Bears still wound up with a 1st round bye that year. But with Emery now in the fold, it may be for the best to go in a different direction if the Bears struggle to end this year and have an early exit from the playoffs. But then again, I don't know if Emery wants a clean slate in the organization. He's not a young, up and coming talent evaluator. He's an old scout getting his first run at GM. He cleans house, and it's his last run, especially if he does it this soon into his tenure with a team that is a healthy Cutler away from having 3 straight 10+ win seasons.

 

The McCaskey's are not going to allow Lovie to be fired in a playoff year no matter what the exit looks like.

[rawaction]

Do we even know what kind of input he has on player personnel? Seems like people are blaming him for the draft, free agency, etc. It would be one thing if you called him bad at player development when the Bears have players that they cast off and they somehow shine on other teams, but that hasn't really happened. Most of our misses in the draft get released and are out of the league shortly thereafter.

 

We know he's in the room and a very important voice. We know his system has dominated the agenda on draft day (safety every year, undersized defensive linemen, no offensive linemen, no quarterback, WR on occasion, emphasis on special teams, etc). We know he's had a few guy pushed out the door go on to success elsewhere. We know he and/or his staff have forced acquisitions of garbage veterans who got paid big money to do nothing and leave. We know they've had to go outside the organization to find the two most impactful players on the roster in recent years.

 

No, it's not all on him and no he's not all bad. But his weaknesses have been exposed over and over and the same problems have been problems throughout his tenure.

 

He took over with a LOT of a voice after the SB season. And frankly the 2007 draft set this team back probably 3 years (drafting no OL). Signing Archuleta, Manumaleuna, drafting Martz's handpicked QB hurt also. But the major things that have set the Bears back from acquiring elite talent was that 2007 draft. It forced their hand into drafting Chris Williams a couple years later. It forced their hand in trading a 2nd round pick for a DE who would die shortly thereafter. Then it was followed up by the 2009 draft which produced Melton, Moore, Louis, and Knox. But featured a trade down and busts for 1st 2 picks (Gilbert, Iglesias).