The 2012 Offseason Thread

[Tryptamine]

I wonder if the Orioles would pull a surprise move and promote Schoop.

[toonsterwu]

Schoop struggled in a+ and aa. I know folks expect more considering his age and frame, but he sure doesn't seem ready.

[Clem Fandango]

Justin Upton Rejects Trade to Seattle

 

Diamondbacks outfielder Justin Upton invoked his limited no-trade clause to reject an agreed-upon deal between the D'Backs and Mariners that would have sent Upton to Seattle, reports Ken Rosenthal and Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports. The M's were prepared to give up "a package of young talent" in the trade, a return that Nick Piecoro of the Arizona Republic has heard was "substantial" (Twitter link).

 

Though several teams have been linked to Upton over the last two seasons, the Mariners seem to be the first to propose a deal that has gotten the D'Backs to agree to move the 25-year-old outfielder. As Rosenthal/Morosi note, the trade rejection could be gamesmanship by either Upton or the D'Backs --- Upton could be trying to control where he ends up, or the Snakes are sending the message that if Upton wants to leave Arizona, his only option is Seattle. Upton has four teams on his no-trade list, including the Mariners and Blue Jays.

 

Hmm.... Walker/Hultzen, Ackley, Montero?

[Tryptamine]

Justin Upton Rejects Trade to Seattle

 

Diamondbacks outfielder Justin Upton invoked his limited no-trade clause to reject an agreed-upon deal between the D'Backs and Mariners that would have sent Upton to Seattle, reports Ken Rosenthal and Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports. The M's were prepared to give up "a package of young talent" in the trade, a return that Nick Piecoro of the Arizona Republic has heard was "substantial" (Twitter link).

 

Though several teams have been linked to Upton over the last two seasons, the Mariners seem to be the first to propose a deal that has gotten the D'Backs to agree to move the 25-year-old outfielder. As Rosenthal/Morosi note, the trade rejection could be gamesmanship by either Upton or the D'Backs --- Upton could be trying to control where he ends up, or the Snakes are sending the message that if Upton wants to leave Arizona, his only option is Seattle. Upton has four teams on his no-trade list, including the Mariners and Blue Jays.

 

Hmm.... Walker/Hultzen, Ackley, Montero?

 

If they're trying to compete now they wouldn't give up Ackley and Montero. I could see Hultzen,Franklin+ another decent piece.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Apparently Cubs are fourth team on the no-trade list.

[XZero771679666304]

Apparently Cubs are fourth team on the no-trade list.

 

I'm pretty sure that's been known since talk of the DBacks trading him first started.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Apparently Cubs are fourth team on the no-trade list.

 

I'm pretty sure that's been known since talk of the DBacks trading him first started.

 

He can change the list each offseason, I think. So we knew we were on last year's list, but that's the first I've heard it confirmed we are on this year's.

[pitchcs]

Do players put the Cubs on their no trade lists because of day games?

[Clem Fandango]

I know that some players put teams like Chicago, New York, LA, etc... all the large market teams on their no-trade list as a means of negotiating a larger contract extension in exchange for waiving their no trade rights. Last year Upton's 4 teams on his NTC were the Cubs, Indians, Red Sox, and Yankees.

[WrigleyField 22]

And sometimes you put the Indians. Because seriously, Cleveland.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MWV]

Per Rotoworld, the Rangers are pulling out of the race for Upton.

If the Rangers are truly out of the picture and Upton won't change his mind on going to Seattle, the Braves might make the most sense as a landing spot.

Perhaps Justin's trying to leverage an opportunity to play with his brother.

[Clem Fandango]

Yeah, I was way off...

 

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal

Sources: #Mariners offered four players for #DBacks' Upton. One of Walker/Hultzen/Paxton, plus Franklin and Furbush, then Pryor or another.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

He supposedly legitimately refuses to play for Boston.

[davell]

If its a negotiating ploy as to why we're on his NTC, it would be impossible for us to make a deal, if pitching is what they want. Heyman said it was Walker as the lead piece. In value, Baez is in the same realm. We really don't have a guy in the same value range as Franklin(probably a top 75ish type). Furbush and Pryor are both quality arms, maybe Russell and one of Dolis/Cabrera could be close value-wise. Closest thing to Franklin we've got is Villanueva, I guess? At any rate, odds aren't likely they'd want the two main pieces to be infielders. We'd need to vet a 3rd team involved.

[toonsterwu]

My first reaction on that rumored package is ... that's it? I thought they were shooting for the moon for Upton, based on some of the reports about how they were asking for a ton. That's a lot to give up, but it seems decently reasonable. I would've thought that the Diamondbacks might've wanted someone like Kyle Seagar.

 

The Cubs issue would be that the Diamondbacks strength is with young positional players in the big leagues right now, and we lack a top shelf pitching prospect to send in return. I can definitely see why the Mariners would do this deal - getting an impact player through trading from their depth in pitching prospects, some pen arms, and a good IF prospect.

 

____

 

davell - I think Furbush is a bit better than Russell out of the pen. But I think there's a wide gap from Villanueva to Nick Franklin. At the end of the day, the biggest issue/difference is the lack of top shelf, close to ready pitching prospects (assuming the presence of the Mariners Big 3 is part of the reason why the Diamondbacks liked the deal, which seems logical).

[davell]

I agree it's not AS good of a package, but its not FAR off. Granted, if Arizona is targeting pitching, we'd have to find a 3rd team.

[davell]

One of the Braves beat writers came up with one of Delgado or Teheran, Nick Ahmed, one of Venters or O'Flaherty and Cody Gearrin as a package that could work. If so, we've got to be able to find a 3rd team to involve, because that's beatable. Then again, Upton could keep rejecting trades until they accept one from the Braves, I guess. Texas is moving on. At this stage in the offseason, the market can't be as big as it was back in November.

[neely crenshaw]

What would we need to give to possibly swing this?

[davell]

What would we need to give to possibly swing this?

First, we're on his no-trade list. He evidently repeatedly said he'd veto a deal to the Mariners, same with the Red Sox. We could be in the same boat, for all we know. If not, it looks like Arizona is targeting pitching, which we don't have. Our package would have to be centered around Baez and another really solid positional prospect, unless we got a 3rd team involved. My optimism has kind of disappeared. My guess is he's a Brave by this time next week.

[davell]

Switching topics, Bourn, Lohse, and Soriano are all Boras clients, qualified, and out of work currently. Tim Dierkes(MLBTR) mentioned yesterday that players can sign and not cost a draft pick after the draft. That's early June. Bourn will definitely get offers, but I'm not so sure on Lohse and I doubt Soriano will. I could see both those guys being held out until then. Kind of screws up the deadline market if you've got stuff like that going on, but Boras is likely to try everything he can to make MLB consider immediate changes to this new system and this could be a good way to do that.

[illiniguy]

Switching topics, Bourn, Lohse, and Soriano are all Boras clients, qualified, and out of work currently. Tim Dierkes(MLBTR) mentioned yesterday that players can sign and not cost a draft pick after the draft. That's early June. Bourn will definitely get offers, but I'm not so sure on Lohse and I doubt Soriano will. I could see both those guys being held out until then. Kind of screws up the deadline market if you've got stuff like that going on, but Boras is likely to try everything he can to make MLB consider immediate changes to this new system and this could be a good way to do that.

Why in the hell would Lohse agree to sit out until the middle of the season though? Seems like this isn't at all what's best for the player.

[Guest]

Switching topics, Bourn, Lohse, and Soriano are all Boras clients, qualified, and out of work currently. Tim Dierkes(MLBTR) mentioned yesterday that players can sign and not cost a draft pick after the draft. That's early June. Bourn will definitely get offers, but I'm not so sure on Lohse and I doubt Soriano will. I could see both those guys being held out until then. Kind of screws up the deadline market if you've got stuff like that going on, but Boras is likely to try everything he can to make MLB consider immediate changes to this new system and this could be a good way to do that.

 

I thought Brett had an interesting point a while back on those guys, that if you signed one you wanted like Bourn, why not try to sign the other two on 1 year deals and trade them at the deadline? The return you'd get for them would likely outstrip the value of a 2nd and 3rd round pick/draft allotment, and the player is happy they don't have to deal with qualifying offers again. It could backfire if the player bombed or if you found yourself in contention(as much as trading your 2nd & 3rd picks to be in playoff contention can be considered a bad thing), but I think it might be a backdoor way to buy prospects for big market teams that aren't set up to be guaranteed contenders that year.

[neely crenshaw]

Lohse is a tough sign. I am sure he and Boras know this is really his last chance at big money and a longer term BUT his stats all point to a pretty quick fall off. With age and the type of pitcher he is, he simply may not see anyone throw big dollars or long terms at him. At least not big dollars and long terms. He may be waiting for a long, long time.

Of course usually there is one dumb team that will ante up an insane amount sooner or later.

 

if we could swing those deals for a year that would be a nice move, with a chance at becoming a great move. I could see Soriano signing for a year, but it would probably have to be Lohse's only option to sign a one year. That could really blow up on him if he fades like many expect. Of course if he grabbed 15-18 mil for that year, it would be a nice cushion...

[Clem Fandango]

Buster Olney of ESPN reports that the Diamondbacks are interested in Mike Olt, and that he would be an integral piece if they were to deal Justin Upton to the Rangers.

The Diamondbacks seem almost certain to trade Upton at this point, and the Rangers have no immediate spot for Olt after their signing of Lance Berkman. There will surely have to be other prospects involved on the Rangers' end -- like perhaps Martin Perez -- but the fit in general is pretty good.

 

Considering there have been reports of the DBacks turning down Olt offers for Upton left and right, this seems fishy. Still, if it actually happens, and they are indeed sold on Olt, then that makes Matt Davidson available. Not the best 3B prospect, but he could probably be had for a whole heck of a lot less than what Olt would require

[davell]

I am an Olt fan, not really a Vitters fan......But, Vitters put up a .304/.356/.513 line in AAA at 22, with 77K's in 415 at bats. Olt, at 23, put up a .288/.398/.579 line with 101K's in 354 at bats. Both in hitters leagues, Olt probably playing in MORE of one than Vitters even. Davidson? .261/.367/.469 in AA, neutral league for hitters, at 21. I'd rather get pitching and leave 3B alone, unless Headley or another established guy under 30 becomes available. Between Vitters, Villanueva, Baez, and Candelario, I think we'll find a solid 3B from within. Like I said, I'd take Olt, but I wouldn't be jumping for joy, the more I look at things. Davidson just seems a little redundant, not sure he's even as good of a prospect as Vitters.