Re: 2012-13 Chicago Bulls Thread

[Sammy Sofa]

I want Rose to be back exactly when the doctors say he is ready. Any decisions to speed it or slow it is useless meddling by people who aren't doctors and don't know what they are talking about.

 

If Rose isn't actually medically ready now, I'm worried.

 

Why are you saying "if?"

[WrigleyField 22]

I want Rose to be back exactly when the doctors say he is ready. Any decisions to speed it or slow it is useless meddling by people who aren't doctors and don't know what they are talking about.

 

If Rose isn't actually medically ready now, I'm worried.

 

Why are you saying "if?"

You're right, I should have said, "If Rose wasn't actually medically ready now, I'd be worried, but instead I'm just pissed."

[Guest]

damn, this team has been a mess since the rose stuff started coming up.

 

i still think it's a decent idea for the organization to step forward and say "he can play in the regular season, but we're shutting him down for the playoffs no matter what." take that expectation right off the board. the goal here is just to get him in some nba action. i mean, can rose take it half speed in a postseason? i doubt it. he'll go hard, and do we really want him doing that within a couple months of coming back? he'll never say he wants to sit out the playoffs, but i think everyone would be happy if the organization just made it out of his hands.

[WrigleyField 22]

Do we know for sure who's hands its in right now that he isn't playing? I honestly haven't been keeping up with articles a ton.

[Soul]

My understanding is, the medical doctors cleared him awhile back and it's just that he isn't comfortable dunking off his injured leg yet. Rose also said his hamstrings hurt after every practice -- don't know what that really is.

[seanimal]

man, it was awesome when rose being a mental midget was just this funny thing and didn't make our team suck

 

"oh hey i know that spending as few as 25 mpg on the floor would make my basketball team measurably better, but i can't go full vertical jumping off of my left foot into an easterly wind during daylight savings time on a tuesday. so [expletive] it"

[scarey]

Wait, what? What's the benefit to continuing the rehab process of a literally game-changing injury sooner rather than later? This isn't something someone should have to ask.

 

 

Well, he eventually has to move to the next level of his rehab process, yes. It just doesn't have to be now. Is it silly for him not to? Maybe. But unless there's some potential upside, why push him to do it right now? There's no reason to do so.

 

I wasn't saying "literally game-changing" just for kicks; this is something that he needs to adjust to and potentially figure out how to be a different player than he was before (which impacts the players around him and how his coaches approach him). That's a HUGE reason for him to play sooner rather than later.

 

And I'd flip around your post and say there's no reason for him not to play right now. There's absolutely no upside to him not playing whereas there's pretty huge reasons to get him back ASAP.

 

There's not really a reason for him not to play either, you're right. I just don't understand why anyone would be so adamant one way or another.

 

I'm not going to say they are the same exact thing btw, but doctors medically cleared Robbie Hummel when he came back to practice after a torn ACL and he retore it. That's not a reason for Rose not to play, but it goes to show you that doctors aren't 100% right.

 

Also, has any doctor actually ordered Rose to play NBA games? Or was he just cleared to play?

Edited March 14, 2013 by scarey

[Soul]

What do you mean? Doctors don't order players to play games.

[WrigleyField 22]

Wait, what? What's the benefit to continuing the rehab process of a literally game-changing injury sooner rather than later? This isn't something someone should have to ask.

 

 

Well, he eventually has to move to the next level of his rehab process, yes. It just doesn't have to be now. Is it silly for him not to? Maybe. But unless there's some potential upside, why push him to do it right now? There's no reason to do so.

 

I wasn't saying "literally game-changing" just for kicks; this is something that he needs to adjust to and potentially figure out how to be a different player than he was before (which impacts the players around him and how his coaches approach him). That's a HUGE reason for him to play sooner rather than later.

 

And I'd flip around your post and say there's no reason for him not to play right now. There's absolutely no upside to him not playing whereas there's pretty huge reasons to get him back ASAP.

 

There's not really a reason for him not to play either, you're right. I just don't understand why anyone would be so adamant one way or another.

 

I'm not going to say they are the same exact thing btw, but doctors medically cleared Robbie Hummel when he came back to practice after a torn ACL and he retore it. That's not a reason not for Rose to play, but it goes to show you that doctors are wrong sometimes.

 

Also, has any doctor actually ordered Rose to play NBA games? Or was he just cleared to play?

Unless you can point to any evidence that Robbie Hummel's acl was not healed, then we have to assume its just a freak injury. It's like winning the lottery. Some [expletive] is bound to do it twice right in a row.

 

Also if Rose's ACL isn't healed he's screwed, so he might as well play and get the re-injury over with so he can start rehabbing again.

[SouthSideRyan]

What do you mean? Doctors don't order players to play games.

 

I'm writing Derrick a prescription for 15 regular season games and another 5 game playoff loss.

[scarey]

What do you mean? Doctors don't order players to play games.

 

I'm writing Derrick a prescription for 15 regular season games and another 5 game playoff loss.

 

That's what Bernstein is making it out to be. He's repeatedly said that the doctors said the next step in his therapy is to play NBA games. That's different than clearing him to play.

[scarey]

Unless you can point to any evidence that Robbie Hummel's acl was not healed, then we have to assume its just a freak injury.

 

Why? I would say it's safe to say that if he injured the same exact ligament that he just had surgery on, there's a high likelihood of it having something to do with the original injury.

[WrigleyField 22]

Define "just had surgery on" because the actually healing process of the ACL is quite short. The ACL itself is physically as strong as it was before, if not more so, unless the surgery was done poorly or proper rest was not taken during the healing. If either of these are the case for Rose or Hummel they are/were doomed long before re-injury and no amount of time is going to undo that.

 

The main part of recovery its teaching your body to use the new piece of ligament and building back strength. The mental aspect is another huge part. None of these things relate to re-injury of the ACL. There is some risk of other injuries due to over-compensating, but that isn't a reason to dismiss an athletes return in general.

 

An ACL in almost all forms is a freak injury. It is entirely possible to suffer two freak injuries of the same nature in close proximity to each other. And for now I'll accept your Hummel and raise you an Adrian Peterson. You can come back with another example, but I'll just bring another successful comeback story in a forever pointless exercise of talking about athletes who aren't Derick Rose.

[scarey]

Define "just had surgery on" because the actually healing process of the ACL is quite short. The ACL itself is physically as strong as it was before, if not more so, unless the surgery was done poorly or proper rest was not taken during the healing. If either of these are the case for Rose or Hummel they are/were doomed long before re-injury and no amount of time is going to undo that.

 

The main part of recovery its teaching your body to use the new piece of ligament and building back strength. The mental aspect is another huge part. None of these things relate to re-injury of the ACL. There is some risk of other injuries due to over-compensating, but that isn't a reason to dismiss an athletes return in general.

 

An ACL in almost all forms is a freak injury. It is entirely possible to suffer two freak injuries of the same nature in close proximity to each other. And for now I'll accept your Hummel and raise you an Adrian Peterson. You can come back with another example, but I'll just bring another successful comeback story in a forever pointless exercise of talking about athletes who aren't Derick Rose.

 

Maybe you're misunderstanding my clearly stated point.

 

This isn't a debate on whether knee ligament surgeries are successful or not. Adrian Peterson has nothing to do with it. My point was that doctors aren't always 100% right. You can deny the obvious and just pass Hummel's re injury as a coincidence. That's fine. The fact remains modern medicine isn't as much as an exact science as you seem to think.

 

And damn it, I'm not even trying to argue that Rose shouldn't come back to play. I just don't understand the demand for him to come back. There's absolutely no benefit to him playing or not playing right now.

[Sammy Sofa]

Well, there is, and it's been expressed very clearly repeatedly in this thread.

 

And saying that "medical science isn't perfect" seems to amount to more than little more than throwing one's hands up and just saying, "OK, he play whenever." Your best information is to go off of what the doctors and trainers are saying...what else are you supposed to use as the primary information?

[Sammy Sofa]

What do you mean? Doctors don't order players to play games.

 

I'm writing Derrick a prescription for 15 regular season games and another 5 game playoff loss.

 

That's what Bernstein is making it out to be. He's repeatedly said that the doctors said the next step in his therapy is to play NBA games. That's different than clearing him to play.

 

They've cleared him to play.

[Wilson A2000]

3% chance of reinjuring his knee again according to Bernstein. Hurry up before the new Adidas commercial comes out with the city holding its breath while Rose wakes up every morning waiting for his knee to feel 'normal.'

[Banedon]

damn, this team has been a mess since the rose stuff started coming up.

 

Well yes, also since they've played without Taj, Hamilton and Hinrich.

[UMFan83]

damn, this team has been a mess since the rose stuff started coming up.

 

Well yes, also since they've played without Taj, Hamilton and Hinrich.

 

Also I think I read they've played the 2nd hardest schedule in the NBA over the past ~5 weeks and most road games to home games split.

[scarey]

Well, there is, and it's been expressed very clearly repeatedly in this thread.

 

And saying that "medical science isn't perfect" seems to amount to more than little more than throwing one's hands up and just saying, "OK, he play whenever." Your best information is to go off of what the doctors and trainers are saying...what else are you supposed to use as the primary information?

 

 

I have not seen it expressed clearly in this thread yet. So maybe I'm a dumb dumb, but maybe you can tell me again what benefit it is to have Rose play tomorrow as opposed to two weeks from now?

 

I can understand if ownership/coaching/players/fans felt that with a healthy and up-to-speed Rose could help the Bulls make a deep playoff run. Yes, in that case get him on the floor and get him used to playing at NBA game speed. That's not the case though, so I'm not worried.

 

I'm not trying to debate whether what the doctors and trainers said is true or not either. I'm just trying to pull the reigns a little bit on this sentiment that he absolutely must play as soon as possible because the doctors said so. It would be another thing if I said he shouldn't play.

 

Look, I have no problem with anyone having the opinion that Rose should play and that it's silly that he's not. I only have a problem with the idea that it's a bad thing that he's not playing.

[Derwood]

It's too bad that the NBA players don't do the MLB rehab thing, going down to the developmental league to rehab before playing in NBA games. Doe these guys have contract language prohibiting them from a stint in the D-League while rehabbing?

[WrigleyField 22]

...what else are you supposed to use as the primary information?

Robbie Hummell

 

 

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[UMFan83]

...what else are you supposed to use as the primary information?

Robbie Hummell

 

 

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Tore his ACL on Feb 24th, retore it on October 16th a span of less than 8 months.

[WrigleyField 22]

There's absolutely no benefit to him playing or not playing right now.

Sure there is. The Chicago Bulls are in the business of winnimg games. Derrick Rose is really good at helping win games.

 

Then you add that Derrick will need time to work his way back up to his prior playing level so the end of the season like this is a pretty good opportunity.

 

 

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[SouthSideRyan]

Well, there is, and it's been expressed very clearly repeatedly in this thread.

 

And saying that "medical science isn't perfect" seems to amount to more than little more than throwing one's hands up and just saying, "OK, he play whenever." Your best information is to go off of what the doctors and trainers are saying...what else are you supposed to use as the primary information?

 

I don't think he should've had surgery at all!!